The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[marks]

I see part of the problem here is we experience GRACE from God but we LACK grace with one another.

It was some years ago that God planted deep in me His words, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." Myself, I'm looking for much mercy, and it behooves me to then be merciful!

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Absolutely @marks ,
What we spread from our hearts is our expectation to receive, but there are a lot of fakes dressed up to appear as one thing but truly are another.

They even debate in forums handling the word of God.

Lord, help us to look with spiritual eyes out of your love.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Let me ask this of all........

Have you ever really changed someone's mind on their belief either or their indoctrination ?

Have you guided any to say yeah you are correct in your understanding, I am wrong .

We claw and scratch like what is tossed out there is the LAST worm in a roost of chickens !

 

[Behold]

You disagree with the Bible.
Proverbs 16:6 says,
“…by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.”

Paul says (New Testament) that if we learn to understand who we have become "in Christ", and exist in this "renewed mind", then .. "Christ always gives me the Victory".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What “works” can one single man DO to Please God?
The Disciples asked Jesus that very question.
And Jesus answered that very question.

Jesus explained, a man filling his belly with FOOD, grain, bread, meat, IS Temporary.

Man filling his BODY, with A WORK pleasing to God.....IS...BELIEVING.
Believing WHAT?
Believing Gods WORD OF TRUTH.
What IS Gods WORD OF TRUTH?
JESUS!

John 6:
[26] Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
[27] Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Here is part 2 (the continuation) on my commentary for John 6:26-29.

John 6:29
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

So what does Jesus mean when He says, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent?”

Well, Calvinists believe that the work of God is Him regenerating us (or enabling us against our free will) in order to force us to believe. They see man incapable of having free will to choose God in any way shape or form. They make this case by pointing to John 6:44 saying, “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” But they fail to look at the context of verse 45 (John 6:45) that says that those who come to God have heard and learned of the Father beforehand. So drawing by the Father is for those Jews were already having a relationship with God the Father whereby they would have been drawn by the Father to Jesus.

Works Alone Salvationists like the Catholic Church or the Church of Christ believe that believing in Jesus is a work on our part to be initially saved. But this contradicts the apostle Paul’s words in Ephesians 2:8-9 in that he says, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” So this interpretation does not work, either. Jesus cannot mean that it is actually work we do that saves us when we first come to God. For we are saved by grace through faith without works when we were quickened (Ephesians 2:1).

Belief Alone Salvationists (Most Protestants) hold to varying explanations on this one. Please keep in mind that my short write up here is not an exhaustive attempt at explaining what all Protestants believe on what the work of God is in John 6:29. Anyways, some Belief Alone Salvationists hold to the view that the only work of God we are to do is to believe (i.e. have faith alone in Jesus for salvation and nothing else). They don’t believe this contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9 because Paul is referring to works (plural) and not the single work (Which is to believe). This explanation still appears to contradict Ephesians 2:8-9. A work (singular) would still create a problem of one being saved by God’s grace without works in Ephesians 2:8-9. Plus, nowhere does Paul refer to the one and only work as believing. Other Belief Alone Salvationists hold to the view that the work of God is the Lord drawing a person to believe in the finished work of the cross and nothing else (But this is not in the Calvinistic sense but a drawing that involves the free will of the individual either accepting or rejecting the Protestant gospel message). This view is close to the truth, but God is not getting them to believe in the finished work of the cross for salvation (as many Protestants profess and believe mindlessly). There is nowhere in the Bible that states that all Christians have to do to be saved is to believe in the finished work of the cross or to believe in Jesus alone for salvation and nothing else. These are simply invented Protestant sayings.

(To be continued in my next post to you - Lord willing):

 

[Taken]

Oh the Pharisee way: change meanings by vain speeches.

“And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.” (Deuteronomy 13:10-11)



Yes, CONTEXT!

You would stop doing evil if you just witnessed an evil doer get executed…

You would be AFRAID to suffer the same consequence!

You would have to first presume I DO EVIL, in order to Stop doing evil.
I was not raised Catholic or under a Preacher hooting and hollering to be AFRAID of God.
From a young age I was taught ABOUT God, and can not remember being Afraid or not Believing.
Certainly through study, I’ve learned, Gods negative consequences is nothing I would hope for or look forward to.
I am very content with my one on one relationship with the Lord God.

 

[Behold]

Have you ever really changed someone's mind on their belief either or their indoctrination ?

Yes, many.
However, let me explain.

As its not the messenger, its the message that is revealed by the Holy Spirit that causes the hearer to SEE what they have seen before.
And when that happens, a change in their understanding happens.
This is how mental "strongholds" are torn down by REVELATION Knowledge.

Lets say you go to a church that is not theologically related to the Grace of God.
And they taught you to BELIEVE that you can lose your salvation.
So, one day you meet an anointed NT Teacher who shows you a message from the Bible and teaches you also, and the Holy Spirit reveals this to you as the "eyes of your enlightenment" being opened, and you SEE what you have never seen before.
And now,.. you only trust in Christ to get you to heaven, when previously you were trying to earn that, or work for that... and now that you have SEEN the LIGHT, you realize that its Christ alone who gets you there and keeps you saved for eternity.

The Teacher led You to read Philippians 1:6 , and it says that GOD HIMSELF Is Faithful to complete your SALVATiON..
And you "get this revelation", that you dont do it....>He does.....and now your "stronghold" that was put in you mind by a devil deceived person, is broken = and the LIGHT of Revelation is now in that place, instead.

 

[Taken]

Here is part 2 (the continuation) on my commentary for John 6:26-29.

John 6:29
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

So what does Jesus mean when He says, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent?”

Well, Calvinists believe
Belief Alone Salvationists (Most Protestants)

Inanutshell, I am bored with “man made name tags”.
The “name tag” of my preference is: Converted.

Matt 18:
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Behold]

There is nowhere in the Bible that states that all Christians have to do to be saved is to believe in the finished work of the cross or to believe in Jesus alone for salvation and nothing else.

One again your posted Theology has utterly and completely contradicted the Blood Atonement and all the Salvation Doctrine given by Paul with your invented theology.

And regarding what the NT actually teaches.. Paul's Doctrine teaches "justification by faith", and "faith is counted as righteousness".

Paul teaches that we are "saved by grace through faith", and that is the "gift of God".

John teaches that "whosever believes in Jesus, shall not perish but has eternal life"

Jesus SAID.>>"all that BELIEVE IN ME>..I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE, and they shall never perish"

ALL of That is : "the work of God is that you BELIEVE on JESUS, whom GOD Sent". and that is not a Protestant invention, that is a Pauline Doctrine, of which you continually deny, Bible Highlighter....and will again.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Man filling his BODY, with A WORK pleasing to God.....IS...BELIEVING.
Believing WHAT?
JESUS!

Here is part 3 (the continuation) on my commentary for John 6:26-29.

John 6:29
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

So what does Jesus mean when He says, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent?”

First, the work of God (to believe) is not solely our work, but it is God’s work because Jesus draws all men unto Himself (John 12:32). This is not a hostile take over as the Calvinist teaches (in that God is forcing us to believe). Jesus knocks on the door and He speaks whereby we would open the door (Revelation 3:20) so that Christ may dwell in our hearts by faith (Ephesians 3:17). But our believing would not be possible unless the Lord Jesus is drawing us (at that right moment or time in our life He is calling us to come to Him). Also, it is possible that God tries to call us multiple times in our life to come to Him. For God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Second, the work of God (to believe) is not just faith alone our whole lives. Faith is a two sided coin.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith:

The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith:

Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and foundationally by God's grace and mercy like the receiving of a gift. We believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We call upon the name of the Lord seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). We receive or invite Christ into our life (John 1:12, Revelation 3:20). If a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin; But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16). This is all a part of how we are saved by God's grace through faith. No man can save themselves by Works Alone without God's grace. Many people who believe in God, and yet they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior think that God will outweigh their good deeds over their bad deeds. Salvation does not work like that. For they do not realize that their bad deeds will condemn them. They need to have their past slate of sins wiped out. This is where God's grace through faith in Jesus comes in.

But faith does not end with being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The journey of faith continues with...​

The 2nd Side of the Coin of Faith:

#1. Faith manifests itself with the “work of faith” mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Protestants seem to separate works from faith in a way that goes beyond how James describes them. Yet, the apostle Paul mentions that there is a “work of faith.” The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58) (1 Corinthians 16:10), and I imagine if I asked a Protestant Christian if the “work” within the “work of the Lord” is separate from “the Lord,” they most likely would say they are not separated. But when it comes to the “work of faith,” they will say that works and faith are separate things (Which in my view is not being consistent or honest with oneself).

#2. The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:

Faithful:
(adjective):

1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.
​

Source:
Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com

This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.” They are related and connected to each other. A person is loyal (or faithful) to their master based on their faith in him in what he says. For example: 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” So the Lord is said to be faithful in this verse. How is the Lord faithful? Is it by a belief alone? No. The Lord is faithful to strengthening us (or in establishing us) to keep us from evil. The Lord does something when He is faithful. Revelation 2:10 says to a particular church, “be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” Many Protestants have tried to come up with tricky ways to not apply this verse to their own life. I believe they do not accept what this verse plainly says because it contradicts their “Faith Alone” teaching that was handed down to them from Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism).

#3. Romans 10:17. It says,

“So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.”
(Romans 10:17).
​

How do we get our faith? According to Romans 10:17, we get our faith by hearing the Word of God. I believe that the “Word of God” can refer to either Jesus, and or the Bible (depending on the context) (Note: See this thread here to see the connection in Scripture between the Living Word and the Bible). Anyways, in this particular instance in Romans 10:17: I believe the “Word of God” refers to the words of Jesus (which are found in the Holy Bible). We must receive the words of Jesus because if we do not, His words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). This would also include the words of His apostles, as well. For Jesus says, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). So faith is basically everything in my New Testament because it gives us an account of the words of Jesus and His followers. We get our faith by believing and obeying what Jesus and His apostles said. Faith is everything in your New Testament, and faith is not just a belief alone in Jesus.

#4. Hebrews 11.
Hebrews 11 gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season.
​

(Continued in my next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#5. Paul also mentions that there is an “obedience to the faith" (or obedience of faith) at the beginning and end of the book of Romans (See: Romans 1:5, Romans 16:26). Romans 6 says,

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16).
​

So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. For Romans 6 also says, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22). So our obedience unto righteousness is being servants of God and having fruit unto holiness with having the end of everlasting life. This is all a part of the obedience to the faith. There is no such thing as the disobedience of the faith. For Ephesians 5 says, “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6).

#6. John 3:36 (The Greek word “apeitheō” used in John 3:36 for the English words: “believeth not” (KJB) is translated as “obey not” or “disobedient” in other English bible verses. For example: 1 Peter 3:1, and 1 Peter 3:20 translates apeitheō as “obey not” or “disobedient” and it is used context to being disobedient in regards to one’s righteous conduct (Whereas John 3:36 is translated as believeth not” in the King James Bible). Some translations render the KJB’s John 3:36 “believeth not" as “obey not” in other Translations (NLT, ESV, BLB, NASB, ASV, EXB, GNT). In other words, sometimes the words “believeth not” is synonymous with “obey not” (depending on the context). In fact, you can check this Greek word for yourself and it's usage here at BlueLetterBible.

G544 - apeitheō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
​

#7. Works makes a person’s faith perfect (James 2:22).

This connects in with 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Doctrine and instruction in righteousness is profitable so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works. Anyways, the point here is that your faith is perfected by works. Thus, this shows us that there is a symbiotic relationship between faith and works that cannot be separated.

#8. 1 Timothy 5:8 says, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” An infidel is an unbeliever. If faith is exclusively a belief alone then how can a person deny the faith by their misconduct?

#9. 1 Timothy 6:12 says, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,” We have to FIGHT the good fight of faith in order to lay hold on eternal life. So faith is something we have to fight for and it is not a belief alone.

#10. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone?

#11. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). The same word “justified" is used for both faith and works. Most Christians will not argue against how we are justified by faith in regards to salvation. But this same word “justified" is used in reference for works, too.

#12. James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
For James says,

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith,
and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works,
and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”
(James 2:18).
​

James appears to criticize the person who has faith without works by saying show me your faith without works, and I will show my faith by my works. This means faith and works are tied together because works is how one shows their faith.

(Continued in my next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Taken

So in conclusion: In John 6:26-29, the work of God (to believe on Jesus) is:

(a) Not our work alone that we claim as our own because Jesus draws us. Drawing by God for us to believe is the work of God.
(b) Faith starts off as a belief, but it does not remain that way. Faith grows and matures with doing the work of faith.
(c) Works or works of faith all stem from faith or a belief or trust in the Savior Jesus Christ.
(d) When Jesus says we are to labor for the food (bread of life, i.e. Jesus) unto everlasting life, this would be the eventual work of faith.
(e) Believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation, or the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but it is believing the instructions that come from the Lord Jesus Christ, too. For if we just believe in Jesus and yet reject His words, we really are not believing in Him. In fact, many disciples stopped following Jesus because they did not accept His words (See: John 6:66). The same thing is happening today. Many are not really picking up their cross, and denying themselves to follow Jesus, but they are simply justifying their own way or sin.

So while we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works when we first are saved, believers are also saved in continuing in the faith in God’s plan of salvation in laboring for the Lord Jesus (who is our food, or bread of life) which in turn leads us to everlasting life. This work of God that we work is by faith and it is not possible to do this work of God to begin with on our own power. It’s God who draws us (Which is the work). Even our working in doing good works by faith is by God’s working in our heart and life. This is the work of God. He moves us to believe in Him and to obey by faith.

 

[Behold]

Here is part 3 (the continuation) on my commentary for John 6:26-29.

But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven

. “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac::​

You wrote that a Believer's sin is unforgiven, until they confess it. So, that is teaching they are lost again, and will be saved again.
This of course is someone's invented theology.
The correct understanding is that "Jesus became sin" for us all, 2000 yrs ago, and when we are born again we have become God's Righteousness.
This is our born again Spirit. It exists in God.

Also, you stated that Abraham offered Isaac. "by FAITH".
See that?
This means that Abraham had faith already, and by that faith, offered Issac.
God had accepted Abraham's FAITH, before the offering of Isaac was enlisted.
Works, follow faith, as we see in Abraham's case, they do not replace it, nor or they required for Abraham's Salvation.​

 

[Taken]

Here is part 3 (the continuation) on my commentary for John 6:26-29.

John 6:29
“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

So what does Jesus mean when He says, “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent?”

First, the work of God (to believe) is not solely our work, but it is God’s work because Jesus draws all men unto Himself (John 12:32).

A man Satisfying the a work “unto” God, is that a man Believe.
Believe what? Gods Word.
The Drawing any MAN TO...Believe Gods Word, was already established, by God Sending men out to Preach.

How is any man “drawn” to “anything that is new to them”?
Announcing, (what we may call advertising, marketing).
What do men tend to Trust? Word of mouth from someone they know.
Gods method began and continues, VIA Word of mouth from one man to another...Still the oldest form of announcing, advertising, marketing...DRAWING IN ones curiosity and interest.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let me ask this of all........

Have you ever really changed someone's mind on their belief either or their indoctrination ?

Have you guided any to say yeah you are correct in your understanding, I am wrong .

We claw and scratch like what is tossed out there is the LAST worm in a roost of chickens !

I have changed people’s minds before using Scripture. But it was not really me, but it was the seed of the Word of God, and all glory should be given to God for that. But I think what is more important is asking the question:

“Have we changed our own beliefs based on what the Bible says?”

I say this because many of us all start out having preconceived ideas reading the Bible, and some just hold on to their own imaginations vs. amending their belief to fit what the Bible says.

Here is my list of theological things I have changed my mind on over the years.

What theological things were you mistaken about in your growing knowledge of God's Word?

For I am not impressed when a person has a great sway or influence over many. Jesus said, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You wrote that a Believer's sin is unforgiven, until they confess it. So, that is teaching they are lost again, and will be saved again.
This of course is someone's invented theology.

No. It’s called reading the Bible and believing it. But you have to be a person who does not put your own thoughts over God’s Word, and you have to be a student of God’s Word whereby you ask God for His help in understanding what His Word says to be able to figure it out.

Jesus says,

“I tell you, no; but unless you repent
you will all likewise perish.”
(Luke 13:3) (NKJV).​

A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that "Repentance" means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

"Asking God for forgiveness of sin" can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).​

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

(Continued in my next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.


Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

The correct understanding is that "Jesus became sin" for us all, 2000 yrs ago,

So then we were saved 2,000 years ago?

and when we are born again we have become God's Righteousness.

Right, so then you place a condition upon being saved and we were not saved when Jesus died upon the cross 2,000 years ago.

This is our born again Spirit. It exists in God.

We must be born again, but I don’t believe your version of being born again is biblical.
For you: There is no real change. You still view sin as if it does not lead to any kind of punishment for you.
You are still in unbelief in regards to Jesus’ warnings on sin in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etcetera.
You have not repented or sought forgiveness with God with a godly sorrow whereby you would truly forsake sin the correct way (in that it can destroy our souls). For you believe you can sin and still be saved on some level. To have this kind of understanding means you have not really been changed or born again spiritually (Unless you later fell for the Protestant deception or something being ignorant of what the Word really teaches).

Also, you stated that Abraham offered Isaac. "by FAITH".
See that?
This means that Abraham had faith already, and by that faith, offered Issac.
God had accepted Abraham's FAITH, before the offering of Isaac was enlisted.
Works, follow faith, as we see in Abraham's case, they do not replace it, nor or they required for Abraham's Salvation.

Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior, and in the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but faith does not remain as a belief alone as we see in Hebrews 11. By faith Noah built the Ark. So we can see that faith is something that does not remain as a belief alone. Faith also has the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11). Works makes one’s faith perfect (James 2:22). That’s not possible unless faith and the work of faith were connected or had a symbiotic relationship. In fact, this is why James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17), and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A man Satisfying the a work “unto” God, is that a man Believe.
Believe what? Gods Word.
The Drawing any MAN TO...Believe Gods Word, was already established, by God Sending men out to Preach.

How is any man “drawn” to “anything that is new to them”?
Announcing, (what we may call advertising, marketing).
What do men tend to Trust? Word of mouth from someone they know.
Gods method began and continues, VIA Word of mouth from one man to another...Still the oldest form of announcing, advertising, marketing...DRAWING IN ones curiosity and interest.

It’s the Words of Scripture along with the working of God that saves men and not the actual preacher. The preacher is just relaying what God’s Word says and God is using them to do His work. Also, preaching by word of mouth (in person) is not the only effective method for God’s Word to have an effect upon people. God’s Word is not bound in such a way. The written Word can be preached in the form of writing, or video, or by audio. God’s Spirit can also move in a person’s life to soften their heart, as well (preparing them to accept His Word).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Exactly!

If you are a son, then you will be chastened, and that chastening will be effective.



"My camp" may not be the best way to think about this, btw. Regardless,

IF you are His son, you will be chastened, and that chastening will be effective. Trust Him!

Much love!

Yes. I say… “your camp” because you don’t appear to agree with me on what the Bible says in regards to sin and or salvation.

According to this thread here, you appear to believe in a form of OSAS (Which is not what the Bible even remotely teaches). Practically almost every page of your Bible is dripping with conditional statements in regards to our right standing with God (So as to enter His Kingdom).

Pop quiz #1.

Do you believe that 1 John 1:8 is saying that believers will always sin this side of Heaven in some way or on some small level?

Pop quiz #2.

Do you actually believe Jesus’ words when He says our body is in danger of hell fire if we look upon a woman in lust?
See: Matthew 5:28-30.

Pop quiz #3.

Do you actually believe the apostle Paul’s words in that to not provide for your own household is to deny the faith and be worse than an unbeliever?
See: 1 Timothy 5:8.

Pop quiz #4.

Do you believe that if a born again Christian who primarily lives for the Lord most of their life, and yet when they went prodigal for 2-3 years in their life (like saying getting drunk and sleeping around with different women) that they are saved during this time?

If you believe the prodigal believer is saved while being prodigal, then what do you make of the father saying to his son who came home (seeking forgiveness) that he was dead, and he is alive again? Please take note that the son did not physically die. So this means that the parable is speaking in spiritual terms. The prodigal son died spiritually and became alive again spiritually. See: Luke 15:11-32.

Pop quiz #5.

If a believer were to primarily live a holy life and then they started to struggle with looking at women the wrong way, and then one day they looked upon a woman in lust and then they got hit by a bus and died instantly. Would they still be saved? Or would they have to confess of their sins to be forgiven of their sin before they died? (See: 1 John 1:9, Proverbs 28:13).

 

[Wynona]

Do you believe that 1 John 1:8 is saying that believers will always sin this side of Heaven in some way or on some small level?

I know you mentioned this before but Im interested on how you answer people who believe this.