The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

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Try again.

I have at least 20 Threads posted to this Forum, that deal with how to stop sinning, and the cause......

Like this one.

Real Discipleship

But you also teach that a believer can sin and still be saved. So obedience is just optional to entering the Kingdom (Which is false).
Jesus says, “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20). The context of the sermon on the Mount is Jesus was continually focused on teaching obedience to God or you are not going to make it into His kingdom. Nowhere did Jesus say in context to just believe in the finished work of the cross (Which is what Protestantism falsely teaches).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Try again.

I have at least 20 Threads posted to this Forum, that deal with how to stop sinning, and the cause......

Like this one.

Real Discipleship

Yet, you said, I quote: “GOD says, that the unrighteous, is everyone...... as "all have sinned".

So you are contradicting yourself.

 

[Behold]

Here is a General List of Verses on How Believers Can Fall Away:

​

Nice use of a website.
Your cut and paste skills are : A+

Your theology isn't.

Listen, "falling away" is falling away.
Salvation is not regarding that..
Remember, you are the Christ denier who says that Salvation does not remain, and that the born again can Perish.
Jesus denies this.... as Christ said the born again "will never Perish".​

 

[Behold]

Yet, you said, I quote: “GOD says, that the unrighteous, is everyone...... as "all have sinned".
So you are contradicting yourself.

Everyone, of themselves, is unrighteous.
This is why God offers the Cross.
We go there, repenting from our unbelief, and Trust in Christ, and God gives us "the Gift of Righteousness".

See that?
That is not ours, of ourselves, as we are sinners.
That righteousness, is a GIFT from God, that all who trust in Christ, receive as "the GIFT of Rightewousness"

 

[Behold]

But you also teach that a believer can sin and still be saved.

You have sinned since you were saved.

Do you have anything else to offer?

How about something honest.

 

[Behold]

We are saved by grace like a gift (Ephesians 2:8).

Grace is not "like a gift', it is a gift.
The mercy of God, IS the "the GIFT of Righteousness", and "the GIFT of Salvation".

 

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Fair enough.

No, I don't make up definitions out of thin air. I draw from my schooling, and a variety of source materials like interlinears and lexicons. Katergadzomai is more like perform a task, ergon is more like to do an original work. Katergadzomai is done by the laborer. Ergon is done by the motive force.

We work out what God works into us. As He changes us on the inside, we are to implement those changes into our lives. I've heard these words compared to saying katergadzomai is what the assembly line worker does, ergon is what Henry Ford did.

Much love!

But I quoted from the Strong’s Concordance that includes a Hebrew and Greek Lexicon (i.e. BlueLetterBible). You said I just quoted from a website. But I also was drawing upon a Lexicon / Concordance. Anyways, I can see your definition of both Greek words as being potentially correct here.

As for our working out what God works in us: Well, I do believe that after we are saved by God’s grace, God can work (influence upon our heart) for us to work out (to labor to the end and or to strategize daily in doing His work) is true, I also believe that the reverse can happen. Remember, Jesus said, “If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” This means that if we obey God’s instructions, then God makes his home in us, and we can overcome and do the work He requires of us. For Galatians 5:16 says, “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”. Galatians 5:16 does not say that we will automatically walk in the Spirit against our free will and God will just one day force us to do of His good pleasure. The door swings both ways. We have to cooperate with God in the good work He wants to do through us.

 

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You said I just quoted from a website.

And I'm sorry, I spoke in ignorance! It appeared that way as I was searching from some of the text, but I didn't look at everything that way, and again, I apologize!

Much love!

 

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As for our working out what God works in us: Well, I do believe that after we are saved by God’s grace, God can work (influence upon our heart) for us to work out (to labor to the end and or to strategize daily in doing His work) is true, I also believe that the reverse can happen.

I think the key teaching in this passage is that God does in fact work in us to make us both want to do and be able to do the things that please Him. And that as He does that work in us, we become responsible to live according to what He has done.

Philippians 3:15-16 KJV
15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We cannot, however, take God's place as being the One Who is working in us to will and do His pleasure. That place remains His, and what He works into us, we are to work out, with fear and trembling.

Not the emotional visceral fear, but the cognitive knowing fear that there are consequences both good and bad for how we choose to live.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nice use of a website.
Your cut and paste skills are : A+

Your theology isn't.

Listen, "falling away" is falling away.
Salvation is not regarding that..
Remember, you are the Christ denier who says that Salvation does not remain, and that the born again can Perish.
Jesus denies this.... as Christ said the born again "will never Perish".​

No. It's my own work compiled over study that I saved on a Google document.
Oh, and Jesus did not say that the born again will never perish. That is something you have added to the Bible that does not exist.

 

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Everyone, of themselves, is unrighteous.
This is why God offers the Cross.
We go there, repenting from our unbelief, and Trust in Christ, and God gives us "the Gift of Righteousness".

See that?
That is not ours, of ourselves, as we are sinners.
That righteousness, is a GIFT from God, that all who trust in Christ, receive as "the GIFT of Rightewousness"

Right, which contradicts your how to stop sinning point made in post #756.

 

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I think the key teaching in this passage is that God does in fact work in us to make us both want to do and be able to do the things that please Him. And that as He does that work in us, we become responsible to live according to what He has done.

Philippians 3:15-16 KJV
15) Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16) Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We cannot, however, take God's place as being the One Who is working in us to will and do His pleasure. That place remains His, and what He works into us, we are to work out, with fear and trembling.

Not the emotional visceral fear, but the cognitive knowing fear that there are consequences both good and bad for how we choose to live.

Much love!

Again, while I am not denying God works in us for us to work out our salvation, I also know that when we obey His instructions, God empowers us more by His working to do the work more effectively and or to overcome sin in this life. For example: 1 Peter 4:1-2 says He that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, and that we should live the rest of our time to the will of God and not to the lusts of the flesh.

1 Peter 4:1-2
1 “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.”

Another?

Galatians 5:16 says “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”

We are told to sow to the Spirit (Galatians 6:8) which is well doing (Galatians 6:9).
This sowing to the Spirit is a part of reaping life everlasting.
So if we are being told to do this... then the burden of responsibility (in well doing) is not all on God.
If this was not the case, then God would not judge His people (See: Hebrews 10:30).

 

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Again, while I am not denying God works in us for us to work out our salvation, I also know that when we obey His instructions, God empowers us more by His working to do the work more effectively and or to overcome sin in this life. For example: 1 Peter 4:1-2 says He that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, and that we should live the rest of our time to the will of God and not to the lusts of the flesh.

1 Peter 4:1-2
1 “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.”

Another?

Galatians 5:16 says “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.”

We are told to sow to the Spirit (Galatians 6:8) which is well doing (Galatians 6:9).
This sowing to the Spirit is a part of reaping life everlasting.
So if we are being told to do this... then the burden of responsibility (in well doing) is not all on God.
If this was not the case, then God would not judge His people (See: Hebrews 10:30).

I would simply say that we do the works that God empowers us to do, and that we cannot "get ahead of that".

We are to walk in the Spirit because God has enabled us to do so, and in so doing, deny the flesh.

Much love!

 

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4.) 1 Timothy 6:12 .... Paul is talking to a convert, he's telling him...he's encouraging him.....its a pep talk for this Soldier of Christ...."be strong" "stand firm" "have your loins girded with the Truth"..>"wear your helmet of Salvation"...>"quit ye like men"......."lay hold on eternal life"....

This explanation does not actually make any sense or undoes what it plainly says. 1 Timothy 6:12 says,

“Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:12).

According to you: Born again (to be converted) means one is forever saved.
But Paul is not using the same words you are using. Paul says we have to fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life.

Peter says,
“Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;” (1 Peter 2:11).

2 Timothy 4:7-8
“I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.”

Paul says,

I have fought the good fight.
I have finished my course (race).
I have kept the faith.

As a result, a crown of righteousness is laid up for him.

The crown of righteousness is a part of life (i.e. eternal life).

Proverbs 12:28
“In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.”

And grace reigns through righteousness unto eternal life.

Romans 5:21
“That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Even the context of 1 Timothy 6 talks about how we are to pursue after godliness instead of riches because some who have coveted after riches have erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows (1 Timothy 6:9-11).

5.) Romans 8:13.... This verse is Paul warning the believers about the final consequence of backsliding and never repenting......He tells them, and its a fact.....if you turn back to the world's vomit like a hungry dog, and you wont repent......."you will die".....and thats a fact. Many believers go to Heaven "before their time" because they went backwards, and ended up dead too soon.

This is false. Romans 8:13 is not contrasting eternal life with eternal life but it is contrasting eternal life with death. Sin keeps one out of the kingdom. Jesus said if you don’t forgive you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). Paul says if you do not provide for your own, you have denied the faith, and you are worse than an unbeliever (1 Timothy 5:8). So again. These statements do not sound like unrepentant sin is merely a loss of rewards.

6.) Galatians 6:8-9.... This verse talks about sowing to the Spirit....and that by FAITH IN CHRIST......and if you sow to the flesh, that is to sin and live in it, = then you end up more and more depraved, more sin hardened, more unable to hear the call of God, until finally you end up with a "seared conscience", and once there, you can't be drawn to the Cross by the Holy Spirit ever again.

No. Read the context of verse 9 more closely. Verse 9 defines the sowing of the Spirit in verse 8. Verse 9 says, “And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” Sowing to the Spirit would involve cultivating the fruits of the Spirit like love, joy, peace, long suffering, etcetera in Galatians 5:22-23.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

No problem , my fine Sister.....it’s all my fault.....I got so much stuff going on trying to stay caught up in here , I often get in too big of a hurry and make all kinds of dumb mistakes....I “assumed” that you and others knew that I was talking to a general audience , because that is what I do 90% of the time .....I think we have all heard the old adage about what happens when people “ ASSsume”, right? ..... I just accidentally proved the old adage to be true.....lol.....

Btw.....go easy on those “ pink” pills ! .....years ago I took one too many and woke up in a Burmese House Of Ill-Repute——it’s getting late.....that will have to be a story for another time ....lol....

May God Bless you and yours...

 

[farouk]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d Sometimes these discussions can be rather moving, right? :)

 

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Grace is not "like a gift', it is a gift.
The mercy of God, IS the "the GIFT of Righteousness", and "the GIFT of Salvation".

Semantics. No doubt God’s grace is a gift just as Ephesians 2:8 says. But by saying that God’s grace is like a gift is not inaccurate to saying the same thing as God’s grace is a gift. For example: I can say that Bob is an asset to the team, and yet I can also say Bob is invaluable because he is like our priceless asset to the team. It means the same thing. It would be like saying Rick is annoying because he makes loud ear bleeding noises whenever we are around him, and yet I can say Rick is like the embodiment of annoyance because he makes loud ear bleeding noises whenever we are around him. Again, it means the same thing.

Anyways, what is the gift of God’s grace? It’s Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son (John 3:16). Oh, and by the way: Believing in Jesus according to John 3:16 is believing everything Jesus taught, as well (and not just believing in the person of Jesus for salvation alone). For to not trust what Jesus said or taught, means one is not really trusting or believing in Jesus.

 

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I would simply say that we do the works that God empowers us to do, and that we cannot "get ahead of that".

We are to walk in the Spirit because God has enabled us to do so, and in so doing, deny the flesh.

Much love!

But you make it sound like a born again believer who abides in God cannot turn back to the vomit of his old life and be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin and depart from the living God. You make it sound like a believer cannot be empowered by God by following His instructions (Which would not be true). Again, ceasing from sin involves suffering and that is not something that is forced upon you. You have to choose to suffer. Then there is Galatians 5:16. Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Again, you have to choose to walk after the Spirit. Yes, God can work in you to do that, but it’s not a guarantee because if it was, then Paul would have never said what he did in Galatians 5:16.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d Sometimes these discussions can be rather moving, right? :)

Yes and sometimes we can be so blind.
Like @BloodBought 1953 showed me his very witty sense of humour which I like.

Are we AFRAID to be real here ?
Surely we are NOT all as negative and angry as we write. If we are, I'll pray but it's good not to engage with these sorts.

 

[farouk]

Yes and sometimes we can be so blind.
Like @BloodBought 1953 showed me his very witty sense of humour which I like.

Are we AFRAID to be real here ?
Surely we are NOT all as negative and angry as we write. If we are, I'll pray but it's good not to engage with these sorts.

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d Well, we never know what's going on in other ppl's hearts, but the Word of God can search us, indeed...........