Why OSAS teaches all sins already forgiven
- Thread starter robert derrick
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of the saying that a person forced to change her mind is of the same opinion still.
She cannot defend her doctrine, answer the questions, explain the points she disagrees with or even write in complete sentences. We all know 'toxic waste' is meant as an insult. This is not of the Spirit. I doubt the OSAS doctrine is of the Spirit either.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Alfredthefifth
Active Member
@Taken
@Wrangler
There are toxic things in the thread.
The first is how OSAS is applied and how wide the brush painting it is used.
I have never claimed ALWAYS SAVED.
That is tag applied by false teachers.
Because I admit that I am made of sinfull flesh that will always be sinfull flesh.
My belief is OSDILGE OR OSDIMGLE
The L love The G God the E enough
PHARISEES
Jesus didn't interact, that is walk and eat and anything else in daily life with the Pharisees. What he told them was they were to righteous to need him. What he showed them was that their righteousness was in empty shell of pride and conceit.
They groomed thimselfs on scripture verses picked to make themselves look righteous and lorded that righteousness over everyone else.
This doesn't sound familiar does it?
The Pharisees lost their debates with Jesus because when Jesus brought the entire text into the debate. The select verse was empty by itself.
The Pharisees never trapped Jesus because Jesus knew the trap and used the message of God's love in his answers.
I am accused of being an OSAS Christian because I admit that sin is part of all humanity saved or not. Although I never have claimed or will claim that I or anyone else is Always Saved.
Saved can be easily lost!
Lost in love for money
Lost in love for self
The love of self when I take Jesus's life on earth and his teaching as a whole show that PRIDE CONCEIT AND VANITY are empty things that seal one off from God's blessings.
I know BUT you have your verses! Just like the Pharisees taken up to wave your pride at the world.
These verses used as they have been here are toxic empty things. The more that OUT OF CONTEXT is denied the more toxic they become.
So yes this thread is toxic.
But I submit that it is those that apply the OSAS label that are the toxicity.
Because I have never met what is called an OSAS Christian that claims they can never lose salvation. Because they like I do hear Jesus warning against the empty sins of vanity concieted and unhumble pride of claiming sinlessness. If we choose that as well as other things, our salvation is taken away.
The brush used to paint OSAS on anyone should be the mirror looked in every day. You aim the paint at me but get more on yourself.
The Holy Spirit in my heart
Alfredthefifth
@Wrangler
There are toxic things in the thread.
The first is how OSAS is applied and how wide the brush painting it is used.
I have never claimed ALWAYS SAVED.
That is tag applied by false teachers.
Because I admit that I am made of sinfull flesh that will always be sinfull flesh.
My belief is OSDILGE OR OSDIMGLE
The L love The G God the E enough
PHARISEES
Jesus didn't interact, that is walk and eat and anything else in daily life with the Pharisees. What he told them was they were to righteous to need him. What he showed them was that their righteousness was in empty shell of pride and conceit.
They groomed thimselfs on scripture verses picked to make themselves look righteous and lorded that righteousness over everyone else.
This doesn't sound familiar does it?
The Pharisees lost their debates with Jesus because when Jesus brought the entire text into the debate. The select verse was empty by itself.
The Pharisees never trapped Jesus because Jesus knew the trap and used the message of God's love in his answers.
I am accused of being an OSAS Christian because I admit that sin is part of all humanity saved or not. Although I never have claimed or will claim that I or anyone else is Always Saved.
Saved can be easily lost!
Lost in love for money
Lost in love for self
The love of self when I take Jesus's life on earth and his teaching as a whole show that PRIDE CONCEIT AND VANITY are empty things that seal one off from God's blessings.
I know BUT you have your verses! Just like the Pharisees taken up to wave your pride at the world.
These verses used as they have been here are toxic empty things. The more that OUT OF CONTEXT is denied the more toxic they become.
So yes this thread is toxic.
But I submit that it is those that apply the OSAS label that are the toxicity.
Because I have never met what is called an OSAS Christian that claims they can never lose salvation. Because they like I do hear Jesus warning against the empty sins of vanity concieted and unhumble pride of claiming sinlessness. If we choose that as well as other things, our salvation is taken away.
The brush used to paint OSAS on anyone should be the mirror looked in every day. You aim the paint at me but get more on yourself.
The Holy Spirit in my heart
Alfredthefifth
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Alfredthefifth
Active Member
You have been in this discussion, yes or no?
Are you the fence sitter?
The one that argues both sides while trying not to fall off the fence.
Tacitly agreeing with one side or the othe as it suited you?
The fence implies that you can be in the middle but not take a side.
But what if there is no fence, no middle ground?
There is a line that leaves one standing in both sides or dancing first in on camp and then the other camp. The place where the person gets hit by everything, from both sides no matter how they try to duck and dodge.
You may be one that I have liked some posts but as there is no dislike I couldn't show that.
Towards getting here your posts look to have been on the side of the line that supports the painting on of OSAS.
THAT is the danger of trying sit on the fence or dance the line.
Alfredthefifth
Taken
Well-Known Member
This thread is a bash OSAS.
I believe in OSAS.
Anything else you are wondering about?
Well now. You are not a sinner, and you are not sinning spiritually with lust, nor bodily in word and deed?
Welcome to the fellowship of the saints, if not.
You said you were quitting with me, and so I was glad to let you. But, like a moth to the flame, you can't help yourself. Even like an OSAS sinner to sin, you can't help yourself.
In any case, I no longer argue about sinners, that want to keep sinning and justify it by doctrine of grace.
What you do with your life is your business. Not mine.
Trying to decipher you grammar, I believe you are teaching typical OSAS delusion: you are a sinner, and you blame your sinning on a sin nature, and so you are still saved and justified by Christ while sinning, because your sin nature and sinning are now under grace.
False. No man while sinning with the devil against God, is a born son of God and child of the devil at the same time.
Not me, not you, not any soul on earth.
But, as I say, sin with the devil all you like. It's your soul sinning against God. Not mine.
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I take people at their word. If someone wants to call themselves sinners, and declare they will be sinning again from time to time as they wish, then that is what they are, and what they are doing.
I don't judge others by my own mind as you do, but only by what they say and do.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
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You will NEVER get a straight answer from this taken person. It will NOT happen.
It's the normal course for anyone claiming to believe in OSAS.
Afterall, their doctrine teaches them to be double hearted in Romans 7 for life.
Their just practicing what they preach.
I knew it. I have challenged any OSAS believer to just write the words, Those saved ought to be living righteously.
Without adding any of the usual OSAS dribble about also sinning from time to time. And none them have, because of fear. All OSAS believers know, that if they were to just exhort that doing righteously, the knives of OSAS would be coming out for them, by their former OSAS lovers.
And here you demanding that the OSAS doctrine for sinning be adhered to, or else.
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Alfredthefifth
Active Member
When even Paul the Apostle converted in a face face meeting with Jesus writes that he cannot live above the state of his sinfull flesh.
What vanity, what emptiness on my part to say I do better or can do better.
If there is a truly sinless man I am sure that God will take him straight into heaven while still alive.
The vanity to challange those that cannot be as faithful as you? That might just be the sin that all other sins pale in comparison to. Thankfully all I can do is quote scripture.
Alfredthefifth
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
It's sad they cannot provide straight answers. (This is the nature of dualism) In reviewing Romans 7 that you referenced above, I came across v19. It implies, according to OSAS, that Saint Paul was not saved and born again since he admits living out evil on an ongoing basis.
I can determine that I am going to do good, but I don’t do it; instead, I end up living out the evil that I decided not to do ... I am thankful to God for the freedom that comes through our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One! So on the one hand, I devotedly serve God’s law with my mind; but on the other hand, with my flesh, I serve the principle of sin.
Romans 7:19, 25 Voice
Alfredthefifth
Active Member
@Wrangler
Of the doctrines that will send me out the door of a church.
The doctrine that by latching onto Christ we will sin no more is high on the list.
I can find verse and stories that encourage me to live a better life.
I can find verses That if I live a life that reflects Gods incredible love, I will live a better life but not a sinless life. As all mankinds natural being is sinfull.
One of the verses thrown out by some perfect man like @robert derrick is Psalm 106 v3
After I read Psalm 106 and answered how the whole of Ps 106 reads no one has come back and tried to debate how the whole really makes verse 3 read as I read it.
Why no discussion? From the perfect ones? Ps 106 v3 was thrown out with assurance! Where did that assurance evaporate to?
Alfredthefifth
Of the doctrines that will send me out the door of a church.
The doctrine that by latching onto Christ we will sin no more is high on the list.
I can find verse and stories that encourage me to live a better life.
I can find verses That if I live a life that reflects Gods incredible love, I will live a better life but not a sinless life. As all mankinds natural being is sinfull.
One of the verses thrown out by some perfect man like @robert derrick is Psalm 106 v3
After I read Psalm 106 and answered how the whole of Ps 106 reads no one has come back and tried to debate how the whole really makes verse 3 read as I read it.
Why no discussion? From the perfect ones? Ps 106 v3 was thrown out with assurance! Where did that assurance evaporate to?
Alfredthefifth
It's not a religion, its a doctrine of some Christian denominations. In the past, I've attended churches that believed that, but they only preached that asking for salvation is done once, (no requirement to continually ask for it.) They strongly preach that you must ask for forgiveness each time you sin.
It sounds as if those two teachings have been misunderstood as one doctrine by someone. I've taught and preached under a seminary professor who was a OSAS preacher, and never once have I ever heard him, or any other preacher under that doctrinal stance, say anything like that.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here. I don't think @robert derrick claims to be perfect. Is that what you are saying? It's late. So, allow me to ramble a bit. ;)
Hmmm. I like the VOICE translation of v3
Blessed are those who work for justice,
who always do what they know to be right!V 5 refers to the nation. So, it helps me to see v3 as a corporate statement, not a statement of personal perfection. In other words, Blessed are those that do their jobs as gods (lawmakers and judges) in a manner pleasing to God, who act in their official capacity with righteousness.
V 6 & v43
Like our ancestors, we have sinned;
we have done wicked things.
He delivered them over and over again;
however, they were slow to learn and deliberately rebelled.
we have done wicked things.
He delivered them over and over again;
however, they were slow to learn and deliberately rebelled.
V6 turns to the people of the nation of Israel, individually, who sin at a personal level. There is only one reason God had to deliver them "over and over again." They did not stay delivered. It is not clear why OSAS thinks this human predicament changed with the arrival of God's Anointed. As I see it, the work of delivering people is over. Not that people no longer need to be delivered over and over again. Rather, it is the answer to atoning after one repents is always the same, Jesus.
We were not saved the 1st time because we were sinless. And we do not stay saved because we sin no more. The only reason Jesus told people to sin no more is because he knew they were prone to continue to sin AFTER encountering him (for you OSAS reading this, <insert mystical words here>). If their sinning no more was an impossibility, there would be no need for Jesus to say this.
Hope some of this makes sense in the morning. LOL
It's a sect for unrighteous christian sinners, who believe they are unconditionally saved forever by faith alone, and their justification is completely separated from anything they do in life, including sinning with the devil against God.
I.e. once any person 'asks' for salvation, they are thus saved and justified forever. All sinning past, present, and future is now officially forgiven. Any 'strong' preaching of confession for sinning becomes mute and lip-service only.
This thread is about why that lie is taught.
It's to avoid the truth that without confession of sinning with godly sorrow, no one can be saved nor justified by Jesus Christ.
Confession of sinning is asking to be saved, because without confession with godly sorrow, there is no forgiveness, and without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
I say what people are preaching without all their fluffy garnish, and lip-service to Scripture.
If I believed with my heart, that I am already forgiven of all my sinning for the rest of my time on earth, then I would never confess any sinning in order to be forgiven. That would be unbelief.
Scripturally, confession with godly sorrow is to be forgiven, that we may then have a clean conscience and liberty not to sin again.
OSAS teaches being already forgiven, and definitely will sin again, while being already forgiven. Confession therefore becomes a mental exercise with the lips only.
OSAS confession of sinning is the rosary for unrighteous christian religion.
The greatest apostle of OSAS was the chiefest of sinners for life. Every Sunday they give out the Pauline Prize for worst sinner of the week.
And then they all celebrate covering grace.
This may be too much to hope for, but can anyone answer a simple question for me: how do OSASers reconcile 1 John 3:6 (which seems to be a linchpin of their doctrine, at least as they interpret it) with 1 John 1:8 (which seems to be denied by them as applicable after their salvific moment of faith)?