Is Sunday the "New Covenant Sabbath"?

[L.A.M.B.]

Well, the Bible does say that in the last days there would be "false" prophets that would arise, right? You don't warn people of "false" prophets unless there are to be "true" prophets that will arise, right or wrong? Otherwise, the Bible would have simply said, "Beware of "prophets" that shall arise..."

One more word on prophets: "Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper." - 2 Chronicles 20:20 KJV

Ok, friend.
We are just going to have to obey the Lord as the Spirit directs each.
I am not all tied up in a denomination nor a church building that it is that important to me.

I also am more interested in studying the word, showing others God's love and praying instead of being hung up on semantics,creeds,statements of faith or church and personal doctrine.

I'll bid you farewell and let you carry on with your thread....

 

[Phoneman777]

And who or what is this Socrates Schasticus that we should just believe him.

Look, if you're not going to be objective, then there's no sense in discussing the issue. Socrates Scholasticus was an early church historian who wrote this:

"Although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."​

That ancient tradition was Satan's "sun worship" religion and both the Papacy in Rome, Satans' headquarters, and Alexandrian, the capital of occultism, rejected the truth of God's authority and submitted to Satan's authority. Wherever the outstretched tentacles of Rome took hold, Sabbath was done away with and Sunday was set up. IT'S A MATTER OF HISTORY.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

So according to you, they met on saturday, took money and set it aside at home. Then when Paul came- you seem to think he went house to house to collect what people lay in store.

That's not what I said. I said on Friday they rushed home from work with the intention of handling finances AFTER Sabbath as Sabbath keepers like me do today. Then, after Sabbath they figured out their weekly budget and determined how much to set aside in their house for Paul.

People met in houses in these days and the fact that Paul said to lay by in store so there would be no collection when He came, showed they set this money aside (most likely with the local elder) on sunday.

The text plainly says "lay by him in store", not "take up a collection from him, her, them, and everyone sitting in the pew", OK?

"Lay by him in store" means "lay up in your individual houses". There is not Sunday morning church service in this verse.

Also Sabbath keeping is not for worship or communal gatherings. The Sabbath as God commanded was that it was to be a day of rest!

Bro, really? The yearly Feast Day "sabbath" of Leviticus were for "holy convocation" - do you know what a "convocation" is? A gathering for worship. Working six days and resting the seventh means there's only one day available for a weekly "holy convocation" sabbath - guess which one.

also, God made it very clear that the Sabbath was a covenant between Him and the Jewish people as a perpetual covenant.

Are we not "spiritual Jews"? The "Israel of God"? "Abraham's seed"? If the New Covenant is made only with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" then we better get busy becoming "spiritual Jews" if we're to partake. Therefore, the Sabbath is a sign between us and God, and true spiritual Jews will keep it ;)

 

[Phoneman777]

The SDA is morbidly afraid, that they'll be FORCED by the Government to "worship on Sunday" which will be the "End of the world" for them. They FEAR the "Sunday laws" to come.

I'd say that it's pretty unlikely that "the Government" will ever even give a hairy rat's posterior for which day a numerically insignificant religious group worships on. We've got a Sabbatarian bunch in Lancaster, TX that calls themself: "GOD'S FINAL WARNING" Church and family life center. They sound like a FUN group -

I'm a true SDA and I ain't afraid of nuthin or nobody, understand?

You wanna see fear? Wait till "Christians" are threatened with imprisonment and death unless they take the Mark of the Beast - they'll be folding like cheap suits by the multiplied billions.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ok, friend.
We are just going to have to obey the Lord as the Spirit directs each.
I am not all tied up in a denomination nor a church building that it is that important to me.

I also am more interested in studying the word, showing others God's love and praying instead of being hung up on semantics,creeds,statements of faith or church and personal doctrine.

I'll bid you farewell and let you carry on with your thread....

Thank you for your thoughts, but please consider what I've said. There were prophets - even female prophets - in the NT. And we're warned of "false" prophets that will arise which means "true" will also arise, otherwise the Bible would have simply said, "Beware of anyone claiming to be a prophet", RIGHT OR WRONG?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, Jesus said the sabbath was made for us - not the other way around.

I'll tell you how I look at it: I need a day of rest each week. If I can't do it Sunday, I'll do it Monday. Or I'll rest half of Monday and half of Tuesday. Or half of Tuesday and half of Wednesday. In other words, I'll get that day as soon I can.

Being retired now- most days are a Sabbath for me!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Look, if you're not going to be objective, then there's no sense in discussing the issue. Socrates Scholasticus was an early church historian who wrote this:

"Although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."
That ancient tradition was Satan's "sun worship" religion and both the Papacy in Rome, Satans' headquarters, and Alexandrian, the capital of occultism, rejected the truth of God's authority and submitted to Satan's authority. Wherever the outstretched tentacles of Rome took hold, Sabbath was done away with and Sunday was set up. IT'S A MATTER OF HISTORY.

And just who is this Socrates Scholacticus that we should bear him great import.

I do not care when churches meet to celebrate the Lord! what this as yet unknown scholar means by sacred mysteries, perhaps you can fill us in.

But the Sabbath commandment was for Israel through all her generations and was not passed on to teh church. If it was, we would not have our pastors and deacons and parking lot attendents etc. Working on the Sabbath. It was established for a day of rest- not worship.

That's not what I said. I said on Friday they rushed home from work with the intention of handling finances AFTER Sabbath as Sabbath keepers like me do today. Then, after Sabbath they figured out their weekly budget and determined how much to set aside in their house for Paul.

And where did you get this unwritten information from?

"Lay by him in store" means "lay up in your individual houses". There is not Sunday morning church service in this verse.

Houses is not mentioned in the verse- that is your added commentary.

Bro, really? The yearly Feast Day "sabbath" of Leviticus were for "holy convocation" - do you know what a "convocation" is? A gathering for worship. Working six days and resting the seventh means there's only one day available for a weekly "holy convocation" sabbath - guess which one.

Bro' really? We are talking about the weekly Sabbath which is the commandment. If you want to branch off into the annual convocations- let me know- they are not part of the commandment. they also were a day of no work- and ALSO for a holy convocation.

Are we not "spiritual Jews"? The "Israel of God"? "Abraham's seed"? If the New Covenant is made only with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" then we better get busy becoming "spiritual Jews" if we're to partake. Therefore, the Sabbath is a sign between us and God, and true spiritual Jews will keep it ;)

No we are not! spiritual Jews are saved jews! Teh Israel of God is the saved remnant of Israel in every generation. We are partakers in their blessings but do not become some spiritual Jew! That is a mytho fo covenant theology which has caused great harm to the church.

No you cannot become a spiritrual Jew so don't worry about the new covenant. It is for Israel only!

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Your fathers did not come out of the land of Egypt, nor did your fathers break the Old Covenant which was for the nation of ethnic Israel.

Trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin debt, makes one a member of the body of Christ- not a Jew physically, spiritually. mentally or any other way one can imagine. It makes us saved! As Paul very p[lainly and clearly wrote- we become partakers with saved Israel in the blessings, but not taker overs.

 

[Bob Estey]

Being retired now- most days are a Sabbath for me!

Sometimes I'm busy and sometimes not. How did I get everything done when I was still working?

 

[Philip James]

Scholasticus was an early church historian who wrote this:

"Although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."

That's a good one lol.

The Catholic Church celebrates the sacred mysteries every day except Easter Sat..

Pax et Bonum

Martyrs of St. Francis of Owo, pray for us!

 

[Enoch111]

How did I get everything done when I was still working?

No doubt you had a good personal assistant.:cool:

 

[Phoneman777]

And just who is this Socrates Scholacticus that we should bear him great import.

Early church historian who proved God's Sabbath was kept many many centuries after Calvary.

I do not care when churches meet to celebrate the Lord! what this as yet unknown scholar means by sacred mysteries, perhaps you can fill us in.r

You should care - it's one of the commandments God wrote with His own finger in stone. Ever heard of "the mystery of Godliness"? You never celebrate it?

But the Sabbath commandment was for Israel through all her generations and was not passed on to teh church. If it was, we would not have our pastors and deacons and parking lot attendents etc. Working on the Sabbath. It was established for a day of rest- not worship.

The Sabbath is for "spiritual Israel" - the church. Why do you think we'll be keeping it in heaven? Have you been seduced by Dispensationalism?

And where did you get this unwritten information from?

Scholars who research - are you going to do some research for yourself, or are you too scared you might discover something that would require you to make a change?

Houses is not mentioned in the verse- that is your added commentary.

You've been taught "lay by him in store" means "put in a collection plate". Have you bothered to stop and think how positively stupid that is? If you're putting it in a collection plate, you're not storing up anything at your side or anywhere. THINK!!!

Bro' really? We are talking about the weekly Sabbath which is the commandment. If you want to branch off into the annual convocations- let me know- they are not part of the commandment. they also were a day of no work- and ALSO for a holy convocation.

I'm asking this question because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you'll not be too stubborn an ass to not answer. Please don't prove me wrong:

If God gave us the first six days to work and labor by the sweat of our brow from sun up to sundown...and then gave us one more day to simply rest and spend time with Him and each other -- which day do you think He intended for us to gather together for worship?

No we are not! spiritual Jews are saved jews! Teh Israel of God is the saved remnant of Israel in every generation. We are partakers in their blessings but do not become some spiritual Jew! That is a mytho fo covenant theology which has caused great harm to the church. No you cannot become a spiritrual Jew so don't worry about the new covenant. It is for Israel only!

Are you saying Christians aren't part of the "new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins"? If so, we're done, bro, because I'm not wasting another keystroke on you. WE ARE SPIRITUAL ISRAELITES BECAUSE WE ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED.

Trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus for ones sin debt, makes one a member of the body of Christ- not a Jew physically, spiritually. mentally or any other way one can imagine. It makes us saved! As Paul very p[lainly and clearly wrote- we become partakers with saved Israel in the blessings, but not taker overs.

"Peace upon...the Israel of God" refers to the church.
"Then are ye Abraham's seed" refers to the church.
"He is not a Jew outwardly...he is a Jew inwardly" refers to the church.
"The kingdom of God shall...given to another" refers to the church.

The New Covenant was given only to Israel, and if we are to be saved, we must be partakers of that New Covenant by becoming "spiritual Jews" who are inwardly circumcised in heart. Those who don't will go to hell.

 

[Phoneman777]

That's a good one lol.

The Catholic Church celebrates the sacred mysteries every day except Easter Sat..

Pax et Bonum

Martyrs of St. Francis of Owo, pray for us!

The church that traces itself all the way back to Christ has to be identical to the "remnant church" which "keep the commandments of God". - Revelation 12:17 KJV

(A remnant is always identical to that which was at the beginning, as a remnant of carpet is identical to the first piece that was cut from the same.)​

Catholicism disqualifies itself as identical to the church Christ founded by virtue of the fact that it has replaced God's commandments with commandments of the church - case in point: they claim to have changed the day of rest from Sabbath to Sunday. That's why the prophecies tell you to "come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins and receive not of her plagues".

Are you coming out, or will you burn with her?

 

[Philip James]

Are you coming out, or will you

Ah brother,
Know that I love you. And that I know you seek to follow Christ. Which is is comendable!

But so you really think I should listen to you rather than the Apostle John?

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.


Pax et Bonum!

Martyrs of Owo,
Pray for us!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Early church historian who proved God's Sabbath was kept many many centuries after Calvary.

Care to link us to His conclusion? but it is still not a commandment for teh church.

You should care - it's one of the commandments God wrote with His own finger in stone. Ever heard of "the mystery of Godliness"? You never celebrate it?

And God tell s us in Cor. that the commandments in stone are a ministry of death!!! and those commands were for teh ethnic nation of Israel! not for the gfentiles, unless they chose to live in geographical Israel.

The Sabbath is for "spiritual Israel" - the church. Why do you think we'll be keeping it in heaven? Have you been seduced by Dispensationalism?

Can you show me one verse that shows "a spiritual Israel" has to keep a physical Sabbath?

Scholars who research - are you going to do some research for yourself, or are you too scared you might discover something that would require you to make a change?

Maybe you should ask me if I research before you open your mouth and make an assumption that makes you look a fool.

You've been taught "lay by him in store" means "put in a collection plate". Have you bothered to stop and think how positively stupid that is? If you're putting it in a collection plate, you're not storing up anything at your side or anywhere. THINK!!!

Well I never thought that- so that is your sin of presumption foisting that on me falsely.

I'm asking this question because I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you'll not be too stubborn an ass to not answer. Please don't prove me wrong:

If God gave us the first six days to work and labor by the sweat of our brow from sun up to sundown...and then gave us one more day to simply rest and spend time with Him and each other -- which day do you think He intended for us to gather together for worship?

Well He gave Israel one day to rest. Nowhere in Gods Command to teh nation of Israel did He command them to gather for worship on the Sabbath. If you bothered to do some research yourself, you would find out that Sabbath synagogue did not start until after teh return of Israel from Babylon and many didn't return. so they held sabbath and has synagogue. But you will not find one command to gather for worship on Sabbath. so you are making an opinion dogma!

Are you saying Christians aren't part of the "new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins"? If so, we're done, bro, because I'm not wasting another keystroke on you. WE ARE SPIRITUAL ISRAELITES BECAUSE WE ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED.

YOu need to learn your bible better. are you saying there are two New Testaments now? One for Israel in Jer.31 and one for the church founded at Calvary?

The New covenant found in Jer. 31 is for Israel alone! Jesus blood is not the New covenant- it is the price that validates the covenant! Look it up in the bible and stop relying on opinions.

I hate to tell all you covenant replacement theology folks. but being Abraham's seed does not make a Jew physically or spiritually! IN order to be a Jew one has to be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, if you wish to believe the bible.

"Peace upon...the Israel of God" refers to the church.
"Then are ye Abraham's seed" refers to the church.
"He is not a Jew outwardly...he is a Jew inwardly" refers to the church.
"The kingdom of God shall...given to another" refers to the church.

The New Covenant was given only to Israel, and if we are to be saved, we must be partakers of that New Covenant by becoming "spiritual Jews" who are inwardly circumcised in heart. Those who don't will go to hell.

REad Romans 9-12 and get back to me when Paul shows we are grafted onto teh vine (place of blessing Jesus)

Do you remember Jesus saying He was teh vine and we are teh branches? Israel is not the vine, they are branches. Jesus is where we are attached and we receive bl;essings by being grafted onto teh vine. It does not make us Jews in any sense.

 

[Phoneman777]

Ah brother,
Know that I love you. And that I know you seek to follow Christ. Which is is comendable!

But so you really think I should listen to you rather than the Apostle John?

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.


Pax et Bonum!

Martyrs of Owo,
Pray for us!

The natural thing to do is to warn those we love of danger...which is why I share this with you. :) Please indicate which of the following statements you consider to be false, and why:

1. Since a "remnant" is identical to what was there in the beginning, the end time "remnant" church will be identical to the church Jesus founded.

2. Revelation 12:17 KJV says that this "remnant" will "keep the commandments of God".

3. Any church that does not preach and teach the commandments of God is not this "remnant".

4. Catholicism claims it changed God's commandments and by that is disqualified as the church Christ established.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The natural thing to do is to warn those we love of danger...which is why I share this with you. :) Please indicate which of the following statements you consider to be false, and why:

1. Since a "remnant" is identical to what was there in the beginning, the end time "remnant" church will be identical to the church Jesus founded.

2. Revelation 12:17 KJV says that this "remnant" will "keep the commandments of God".

3. Any church that does not preach and teach the commandments of God is not this "remnant".

4. Catholicism claims it changed God's commandments and by that is disqualified as the church Christ established.

wow so you do not believe in teh4 formula spelled out in Scripture for salvation then? By grace through faith alone, as a gift from God and not of any works on our part lest we should boast!

 

[Phoneman777]

wow so you do not believe in teh4 formula spelled out in Scripture for salvation then? By grace through faith alone, as a gift from God and not of any works on our part lest we should boast!

Nothing in my post should lead you to conclude that. Works are neither a means of gaining or losing salvation - our choices are the means by which we are saved or lost.

Our works are merely the outward evidence which demonstrates our chosen inward spiritual condition.

 

[Phoneman777]

So we take orders from the Orthodox Jews?

Somehow I get the idea you don't take orders from anyone, including God.

 

[Phoneman777]

Sure. That is the Sabbath of the unbelieving Jews. But the Christian Sabbath is the first day of the week -- the day on which Christ rose from the dead. Thus Paul calls the Sabbath days "SHADOWS", since the reality is Christ.

The Sabbath was created as a memorial which points to the past to God's seven day creation before sin even existed.

So, to lump it in with those true yearly sabbath "shadows of things to come" - Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, etc. - which were designed specifically to point forward to the future and not to the past is just plain flawed exegesis.

 

[Phoneman777]

Paul says they are a shadow of things to come... Please quote it correctly...

No matter how many times I point out the Bible plainly says the weekly Sabbath was created as a memorial pointing back to Creation week BEFORE sin even entered the world, they continue to smash their thumbs trying desperately to nail to the Cross what was written in stone by the hand of God along with the Mosaic Law which pointed forward to Christ and was written on nail-friendly scrolls.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If the sabbath is not in force in your minds, why not let it go? What would be the harm in letting folk believe that the 7th day sabbath is still in force?
Thread after thread, over and over.
If it doesn't matter which day you think folk should worship on, then go find something else worthy to debate about.

In all fairness, the gentleman who started the thread had to know he would get debate. He’s the one who started the same thread that you don’t like seeing over and over again.

And not everyone thinks Gods commands are done away with or not in force. Some just understand it differently and believe they are for the inner man and that it’s the spirit of the words that avail a man, not the letter. They can’t be expected to not at least answer if they believe Pauls meaning was that no one should judge another over sabbath days or certain foods. They have to at least answer if they believe the emphasis is wrong and doesn’t avail men. I do wish men (on both sides) would not get ugly or angry or stirred up in their flesh, but if a man truly believes this - 5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each oneshould be fully convinced in his own mind.6He who observes a special day does so to the Lord; he who eats does so to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God - then he has to answer that neither side should judge the other about this matter or try to get them to leave the convincing in their own mind that one day is holier OR that all days are holy alike.
To me, Paul couldn’t have been much clearer on this.