Questions For JW's

[Desire Of All Nations]

Again: at Christmas I celebrate Christ’s birth. We read the nativity story, act it out, and sing Christmas hymns (“Silent Night” etc).

None of that is pagan. Holidays are what you make them.

Under no circumstances does it make any logical sense for anyone to claim that they're celebrating Christ's birth at Christmas when

1. The Bible clearly shows Christ wasn't born on Dec. 25th.

2. You're re-enacting all of the heathen rites that are associated with Christmas.

3. God explicitly stated in Deut. 12:30-31 that using pagan rites to honor Him is abominable and that such worship is completely unacceptable.

The fact that Christmas uses the same fertility symbols as the sun god and sex cults that were condemned in the OT says a lot about this festival's origins. Slapping Jesus' name on it won't make it any less idolatrous than it was thousands of years ago.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Jane is very respectful and very humble, she understands, it’s other on here who think they are better and insult others, that I must say about Jane, when she says something she does so in a kind way and not bitter or hateful, as others do.

If Jane was humble, she wouldn't be putting up a fight against God's perspective on heathen customs.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Here's a summary of strange JW beliefs, I wish they'd explain them-

View attachment 24429

There is nothing in the Bible that even remotely mentions the shape of the instrument Jesus died on being that of the cross that people generally associate with Christianity. Peter, Peter said that Jesus was put on a tree(1 Pet. 2:24, Gal. 3:13). Jesus said that He would be lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness(Jhn 3:14), and the serpent was not lifted on a cross. It was lifted on a pole(Num. 21:8-9).

As an outside observer, some of the things JWs generally teach seem strange to Catholics and Protestants because their religions are based on appropriating heathen customs and traditions as acceptable practice.

No follower of God is ever mentioned as celebrating somebody's birthday, least of all their own. Christ didn't even celebrate His own birthday, and a Christian is someone who follows the example He set. If He didn't think that His own birthday was important enough to celebrate, no true Christian would be celebrating birthdays either.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Under no circumstances does it make any logical sense for anyone to claim that they're celebrating Christ's birth at Christmas when

1. The Bible clearly shows Christ wasn't born on Dec. 25th.

2. You're re-enacting all of the heathen rites that are associated with Christmas.

3. God explicitly stated in Deut. 12:30-31 that using pagan rites to honor Him is abominable and that such worship is completely unacceptable.

The fact that Christmas uses the same fertility symbols as the sun god and sex cults that were condemned in the OT says a lot about this festival's origins. Slapping Jesus' name on it won't make it any less idolatrous than it was thousands of years ago.

I’d love to hear which part of reading scriptures, acting it out, and singing “Silent Night” is supposedly pagan.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Under no circumstances does it make any logical sense for anyone to claim that they're celebrating Christ's birth at Christmas when

1. The Bible clearly shows Christ wasn't born on Dec. 25th.

2. You're re-enacting all of the heathen rites that are associated with Christmas.

3. God explicitly stated in Deut. 12:30-31 that using pagan rites to honor Him is abominable and that such worship is completely unacceptable.

The fact that Christmas uses the same fertility symbols as the sun god and sex cults that were condemned in the OT says a lot about this festival's origins. Slapping Jesus' name on it won't make it any less idolatrous than it was thousands of years ago.

Yes....the fact is that the Jews were commanded NOT to adopt anything that has pagan roots, especially those connected to spiritism, which was most of them.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12...
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."

All those things were "detestable" to God, so we need to look carefully at what we are doing by way of such things that seem like harmless celebrations, because the things that the Canaanites were practicing had their roots in satanically inspired "spiritism" which is the devil's work.

As you mentioned, we see no birthdays celebrated in the Bible and no birth dates ever recorded (including Jesus') because the Jews did not celebrate their birthdays. The anniversary of the day they were born was not observed, because it was a pagan practice. The birth date was used to make horoscopes in order to predict a child's future. The cake with candles (originally tapers) was used to ward of evil spirits as were the "wishes" directed to the one celebrating the birthday. Nothing changes but the attitude. God still hates it, no matter how much we justify it. It makes kids greedy just like all the other pagan celebrations....adopted under a different name.

Only two birthday celebrations are mentioned in the Bible.....Pharaoh's and Herod's.....neither of whom were worshippers of the true God. And someone lost their life on each occasion at the whim of a proud ruler.

If people think it doesn't matter, read Luke 16:10.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I’d love to hear which part of reading scriptures, acting it out, and singing “Silent Night” is supposedly pagan.

If you are doing it to celebrate "Christmas"...there is your answer. Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December.....the date as well as the customs were grafted on to "Christianity" at a very sad time in history spiritually speaking. We see the churches supporting these celebrations that they know are pagan, but the two most important ones bring in the most money.....so they are not going to say NO to that cash cow.

 

[Phoneman777]

I am not a JW, and I have passionate disagreements with JW theology and culture.

However @Jack , nobody likes “gotcha” style questions. Let’s instead treat people with respect, including those we passionately disagree with.

What disrespect?

Sometimes "gotcha" is the only thing that arouses people to think, to "reason together" with God. Sometimes a bothered conscience is the only thing that will compel one to finally objectively examine a held belief. A challenge to our beliefs that results in Cognitive Dissonance will either move us to abandon cherished error or more tightly cling to it, and sometimes that's exactly what sincere truth seekers need.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

At least I tried to be,

....but I personally found Mormons to be sincere, but led out of scripture by a man who claimed to be a prophet.....was his claim ever verified? He gave his followers a new Bible...one that contained so much of the KJV, word for word, that it bordered on plagiarism....and the rest so far out of scripture that it is as unverifiable as the prophet who invented it.


Not a drama queen or anything...? Good grief!

"A piece of meat"???

Now that is just plain funny....

What were you looking for? Why were you even there? Look at your little list there...."don't do this...don't do that. If you don't answer my questions the way I want them answered I am going to walk out of here in a huff....and tell everyone what horrible people you are....."

Telling a Christian not to preach is like telling them not to breathe.

You weren't interested in the truth, you were just there judging by your own standards.
Thankfully not everyone is as judgmental as you appear to be.

I know that there is a reason why you choose to remain a Mormon....God knows and that is all that matters.

Aunty, I have treated you and the other JW on here with respect and kindness, despite my passionate disagreement with the theology and frankly horrible experiences in Kingdom Halls. My sharing those experiences a moment of vulnerability and I strive to do so as kindly as possible.

You have responded with mockery and bearing false witness against me. To be forward, I find your behavior to be disgraceful and counter to the Bible. Still, I acknowledge you’re going to do what you’re going to do without any change, and spam quotes to “defend” your actions. Therefore, I’m going to place you on ignore, say a prayer, and leave God in charge. Have a great life, may you ever learn more of the two Great Commandments.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes....the fact is that the Jews were commanded NOT to adopt anything that has pagan roots, especially those connected to spiritism, which was most of them.

Deuteronomy 18:9-12...
“When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you."

All those things were "detestable" to God, so we need to look carefully at what we are doing by way of such things that seem like harmless celebrations, because the things that the Canaanites were practicing had their roots in satanically inspired "spiritism" which is the devil's work.

As you mentioned, we see no birthdays celebrated in the Bible and no birth dates ever recorded (including Jesus') because the Jews did not celebrate their birthdays. The anniversary of the day they were born was not observed, because it was a pagan practice. The birth date was used to make horoscopes in order to predict a child's future. The cake with candles (originally tapers) was used to ward of evil spirits as were the "wishes" directed to the one celebrating the birthday. Nothing changes but the attitude. God still hates it, no matter how much we justify it. It makes kids greedy just like all the other pagan celebrations....adopted under a different name.

Only two birthday celebrations are mentioned in the Bible.....Pharaoh's and Herod's.....neither of whom were worshippers of the true God. And someone lost their life on each occasion at the whim of a proud ruler.

If you think it doesn't matter, read Luke 16:10.

Are you saying its sinful to celebrate a birthday and if so how do you support that from scripture. For example am I sinning by celebrating my mothers 100th birthday and her 75th wedding anniversary ?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you saying its sinful to celebrate a birthday and if so how do you support that from scripture. For example am I sinning by celebrating my mothers 100th birthday and her 75th wedding anniversary ?

It’s hardly up to me to tell you anything you don’t want to hear. Research the customs of birthdays and where they come from.

Anniversaries of personal family events like weddings (which are God’s arrangement) and don’t include pagan elements are up to individuals. I find no scriptural injunction against them. But I do find scriptural reasons to reject Christmas, Easter, birthdays, and any “holy day” that the Bible does not tell us to observe, and that have clearly pagan origins.
There is only one observance commanded for Christians, and that is to commemorate the death of Christ...to be observed like the Passover...annually on the date on which it falls. That is not Easter.

 

[ChristisGod]

It’s hardly up to me to tell you anything you don’t want to hear. Research the customs of birthdays and where they come from.

Anniversaries of personal family events like weddings (which are God’s arrangement) and don’t include pagan elements are up to individuals. I find no scriptural injunction against them. But I do find scriptural reasons to reject Christmas, Easter, birthdays, and any “holy day” that the Bible does not tell us to observe, and that have clearly pagan origins.
There is only one observance commanded for Christians, and that is to commemorate the death of Christ...to be observed like the Passover...annually on the date on which it falls. That is not Easter.

Where is the prohibition in Scripture against birthdays ?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where is the prohibition in Scripture against birthdays ?

2 Corinthians 6:14-18....
“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” (ESV)

Doesn’t it strike you as strange that all of the celebrations conducted by Christendom’s churches, all have pagan roots? Do you know why?

 

[ChristisGod]

2 Corinthians 6:14-18....
“Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” (ESV)

Doesn’t it strike you as strange that all of the celebrations conducted by Christendom’s churches, all have pagan roots? Do you know why?

I’m talking about celebrating my wife or kids birthday, try and stay in topic

 

[Aunty Jane]

I’m talking about celebrating my wife or kids birthday, try and stay in topic

If 2 Corinthians isn't telling you how God feels about combining truth with lies....believers adopting the beliefs and practices of unbelievers....with trying to make Christ fraternize with the devil.....what more can be said? Anything classified by God as spiritually "unclean" is to be avoided. Nothing that has pagan origins is from God.

 

[ChristisGod]

If 2 Corinthians isn't telling you how God feels about combining truth with lies....believers adopting the beliefs and practices of unbelievers....with trying to make Christ fraternize with the devil.....what more can be said? Anything classified by God as spiritually "unclean" is to be avoided. Nothing that has pagan origins is from God.

I see you have no biblical basis for your claims just the propaganda from the WTS.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I see you have no biblical basis for your claims just the propaganda from the WTS.

LOL.....of course not...I never posted 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 did I?....how can that be scripture when it disagrees with what you want to believe ?
Shocking omission.

 

[JohnPaul]

If Jane was humble, she wouldn't be putting up a fight against God's perspective on heathen customs.

And how is Jane not being humble? She chooses to celebrate Christmas, it's her choice, she's not going around trashing those that don't.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And how is Jane not being humble? She chooses to celebrate Christmas, it's her choice, she's not going around trashing those that don't.

I totally acknowledge a person's choice to celebrate (or not celebrate) whichever holidays they choose. I do have problems when X choose's to judge Y and unceasingly persecute/prosetytize-at them for that choice. Here's some of the things I've had JW lectures about being evil and "unBiblical":

- Reading the Nativity story and acting it out ("Christmas is pagan!")
- Feeding the hungry and otherwise helping out with the local food bank ("It's an inter-faith food bank- we can't be associated with non-believers")
- Honoring my mom on Mother's day and dad on Father's day ("Mother's/Father's day is pagan!")
- Attending my grandmother's funeral held at held non-Jehovah's Witness church ("avoid bad association!")
- Participating in our small town parade/carnival/party for the local holiday the city just made up to have community event ("it's pagan!")
- Getting an education, especially anything past high school ("this is a distraction from the work of Jehovah!")
- Getting an education on religious views other than that published by the WatchTower ("Christiondom is a whore!").

As I said, my experience with Jehovah Witnesses was horrible. I came as a respectful person truly just wanting to better understand of love my neighbor, and continual judgement and violation of my express wishes to not be prosetytized at. No one remotely cared about me or what I thought/believed, or how I loved scripture. They just cared wether or not I followed the their organization and shunned everything outside of it. A horrible rotten fruit, not matter how many Bible versus a person quotes (even the devil quotes scripture).

 

[JohnPaul]

I totally acknowledge a person's choice to celebrate (or not celebrate) whichever holidays they choose. I do have problems when X choose's to judge Y and unceasingly persecute/prosetytize-at them for that choice. Here's some of the things I've had JW lectures about being evil and "unBiblical":

- Reading the Nativity story and acting it out ("Christmas is pagan!")
- Feeding the hungry and otherwise helping out with the local food bank ("It's an inter-faith food bank- we can't be associated with non-believers")
- Honoring my mom on Mother's day and dad on Father's day ("Mother's/Father's day is pagan!")
- Attending my grandmother's funeral held at held non-Jehovah's Witness church ("avoid bad association!")
- Participating in our small town parade/carnival/party for the local holiday the city just made up to have community event ("it's pagan!")
- Getting an education, especially anything past high school ("this is a distraction from the work of Jehovah!")
- Getting an education on religious views other than that published by the WatchTower ("Christiondom is a whore!").

As I said, my experience with Jehovah Witnesses was horrible. I came as a respectful person truly just wanting to better understand of love my neighbor, and continual judgement and violation of my express wishes to not be prosetytized at. No one remotely cared about me or what I thought/believed, or how I loved scripture. They just cared wether or not I followed the their organization and shunned everything outside of it. A horrible rotten fruit, not matter how many Bible versus a person quotes (even the devil quotes scripture).

I have nothing against you sister.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

I can show you an address that JWs have not approached in 25 years or so.

The reason being is that the Christians that live there would listen quietly to the JW at the door then meekly ask to use the JW's Bible and open it to scriptures that directly contradict what the Watch Tower being used was saying.

Without a harsh word or argument the JWs took flight rapidly.

The last visit was while the JWs were preaching they knew when the end of the world, Jesus's triumphant return was going to be.
I was the culprit in that I took the Bible from JW and opened it to the passage in Mathew were Jesus is telling the disciples, "No man not even the angels in heaven KNOW the day or the hour of my return." I tried to get more into the bible but the JW burned out of the neighborhood so fast it was scary.

So if a Jehovah's Witness is a child of God? Why does the Bible used the way I was taught to read it offend them?

Al