Questions For JW's

[Jane_Doe22]

I never got that feeling in all my interactions with them, most kind loving decent people you’ll ever meet.

My experience was the opposite of that.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Take the JW's "Jesus was crucified on a stake" belief, it can be easily debunked because on occasion it was the custom to break the legs of whoever was hanging on crosses so that they could no longer push up to relieve the weight on their outspread arms, making breathing impossible and bringing death quickly.

The same is true for those hung up on a single pole. Suffocation is a slow and agonising death. The Romans had several configurations of their execution stakes.

Tell me please, if Christ was hung on a gallows instead of being nailed to a “stauros” (there is no “cross” in the Bible) would Christendom have an image of a gallows on their church buildings? Would some even have an image of Jesus swinging from a rope? Would that image ironically be hanging around someone’s neck....?
If he had died in more modern times and was shot by firing squad, would the cross be replaced by the image of a rifle? It’s a bizarre concept when you think about it. If someone you loved was stabbed to death would you wear the symbol of a knife? It was Christ’s death that mattered...not the manner in which he was executed.

Since the Bible’s command is not to “make images of anything” (Exodus 20:4-5) to use in our worship, do you not see that the cross is an image and is actually worshipped in many churches? It is worn as jewellery and as a religious symbol....but the truth of it is that the cross pre-dates Christianity as a religious symbol by centuries. If you want to know what it symbolised back then, look it up. It has very unchristian origins.

It is not the instrument that caused the death of Christ, but the death itself that paid the ransom to redeem fallen humanity. Idolatry is not something that God approves of.

 

[Aunty Jane]

But what really scuppers JW's credibility in the eyes of the general public is that they'd rather die than have blood transfusions..

View attachment 24433

We have already exposed this as media beat up before, and you are still trying to pass it off as truth.
Gullible people will believe whatever feeds their biases.....those who genuinely want the truth, will get it ‘from the horse’s mouth’.....not from MSM who will never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[DavidB]

I didn't say JWs didn't know scriptures. Most of them probably can immediately quote more passages than I could - but that is because they are 'trained' not through personal study.

May I ask how do you know anything about my personal study?

 

[face2face]

The same is true for those hung up on a single pole. Suffocation is a slow and agonising death. The Romans had several configurations of their execution stakes.

Tell me please, if Christ was hung on a gallows instead of being nailed to a “stauros” (there is no “cross” in the Bible) would Christendom have an image of a gallows on their church buildings? Would some even have an image of Jesus swinging from a rope? Would that image ironically be hanging around someone’s neck.

If he had died in more modern time and was shot by firing squad, would the cross be replaced by the image of a rifle? It’s a bizarre concept when you think about it. If someone you loved was stabbed to death would you wear the symbol of a knife? It was Christ’s death that mattered...not the manner in which he was executed.

Since the Bible’s command is not to “make images of anything” (Exodus 20:4-5) to use in our worship, do you not see that the cross is an image and is actually worshipped in many churches? It is worn as jewellery and as a religious symbol....but the truth of it is that the cross pre-dates Christianity as a religious symbol by centuries. If you want to know what it symbolised back then, look it up. It has very unchristian origins.

It is not the instrument that caused the death of Christ, but the death itself that paid the ransom to redeem fallen humanity. Idolatry is not something that God approves of.

Can't argue with the above :)

 

[Aunty Jane]

May I ask how do you know anything about my personal study?

Mine too

...funny how they think they know, but don’t know anything. The Jews thought they knew about Jesus and his disciples too....even approving of his murder.......how wrong can you be?

I spend a great deal of time in personal study.....and it’s something I love to do. I can’t remember the number of times I have consulted Strongs Concordance to confirm a definition and found the NWT is way more accurate than most of the English translations in the rendering of original language words. They should try it sometime....

 

[Dropship]

..The same is true for those hung up on a single pole. Suffocation is a slow and agonising death..

BTW I don't wear a crucifix myself because it just never crossed my mind..:)
Regarding the stake ("stauros"), it was simply the upright bit that the crossbeam was fixed to-

WIKI- Often, the vertical upright stake (Greek "stauros") of the cross would be left permanently in place at a recognised execution site (eg Calvary) and criminals were made to carry the crossbeam there, where it was lashed to the stake to form a cross.
Crucifixion - Wikipedia

If somebody was hung on a stake, they wouldn't suffocate simply by hanging by their arms, but they would quickly suffocate if they were hanging by their outspead arms on a crossbeam; I read an article by a doctor once who confirmed this, he said that because of the strain on the breathing muscles, the victim would be able to breathe out, but not in. (or vice-versa, I forget which).

 

[Dropship]

Regarding churches, a senior JW once told me that because many Christian churches are built on old pagan sites, they're tainted with paganism.
I replied by saying they were probably built there in order to symbolically "stamp out" and overule the old pagan site..:)

 

[Dropship]

..We have already exposed this as media beat up before, and you are still trying to pass it off as truth..

Are you saying that these newspapers and news agencies made up the story, and that a JW named Emma Gough who let herself die rather than have a transfusion never really existed?

 

[Dropship]

And regarding Christmas, it celebrates Jesus's birth, nothing pagan about that..:)
Likewise, Easter marks and remembers his death on a more sombre tone.

 

[DavidB]

I didn't say JWs didn't know scriptures. Most of them probably can immediately quote more passages than I could - but that is because they are 'trained' not through personal study.

I’ve been waiting almost 6 hours for you to tell me all about my inadequate personal study habits. Please do.

 

[Aunty Jane]

BTW I don't wear a crucifix myself because it just never crossed my mind..:)
Regarding the stake ("stauros"), it was simply the upright bit that the crossbeam was fixed to-

That is conjecture of course, but it really doesn't matter. The "stauros" used to put Christ to death was not the important thing, and making an image of it is against God's law on idolatry anyway. No images used in worship means what it says.

If somebody was hung on a stake, they wouldn't suffocate simply by hanging by their arms, but they would quickly suffocate if they were hanging by their outspead arms on a crossbeam; I read an article by a doctor once who confirmed this, he said that because of the strain on the breathing muscles, the victim would be able to breathe out, but not in. (or vice-versa, I forget which).

You don't know much about the Romans then do you...?
No punishment that involved impalement was a 'quick' death......the longer and more painful it was, the better they liked it.
The instrument of Christ's impalement was also referred to as a "xylon" which is translated "tree".

In order to fulfill his commission as redeemer, Jesus had to fulfill scripture.....
Galatians 3:13..."Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”.
This is quoting Deuteronomy 21:22-23...
"And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God. You shall not defile your land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance."

So the word "cross" is completely missing from any Bible verse. Jesus had to die as a 'cursed' criminal.....yet he was completely sinless.

When you undertake a study of the Bible, you need to take everything into consideration, not just cling to favored verses because of what you 'think' they say....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you saying that these newspapers and news agencies made up the story, and that a JW named Emma Gough who let herself die rather than have a transfusion never really existed?

No one denies that this mother died because she hemorrhaged to death....but what those newspapers don't tell you, is that despite transfusions many people still die.....when you can't stop the bleeding, its like trying to fill a bathtub with the plug out. No amount of blood will save you. Many mothers die after giving birth, sometimes complications happen. Its tragic, but because God's law on blood is reiterated three times in three different eras in the Bible, we see it as important to God. We will not break God's law to save our life. This is our own personal decision and we do not force it on others, but we will defend our beliefs from those who want to tell a twisted story.

What I can say, from personal experience, is that many in my brotherhood have been told by physicians that they would die without blood....but none of them did. If the newspapers ran stories about the number of people who died after a transfusion, they would be in the news daily.

Here is that video from the Australian Government Blood Authority website again......in case you failed to watch it the first time I gave it to you....

For Media | National Blood Authority

Blood transfusions are not the "life saving" procedures that they were once thought to be.

So, grabbing a story that the media can manipulate to sell newspapers is old news all by itself.
People like yourself will read that and run with it like the news on MSM is reliable....

 

[JohnPaul]

And regarding Christmas, it celebrates Jesus's birth, nothing pagan about that..:)
Likewise, Easter marks and remembers his death on a more sombre tone.

Christmas symbolizes Saturnalia and the Winter Solstice worship,there is no proof of when Jesus was born let alone saying it was on December 25th, it's never stated in the Bible, and Easter the Goddess of Fertility, hence the rabbit and eggs both pagan signs of fertility. The cross symbolizes the T in Tamuzz's name as does Lent the 40 days of weeping for Tamuzz, just look it up.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Christmas symbolizes Saturnalia and the Winter Solstice worship,there is no proof of when Jesus was born let alone saying it was on December 25th, it's never stated in the Bible, and Easter the Goddess of Fertility, hence the rabbit and eggs both pagan signs of fertility. The cross symbolizes the T in Tamuzz's name as does Lent the 40 days of weeping for Tamuzz, just look it up.

Any holiday is what you make it.

I’m reading the nativity story, acting it out with my kids, and singing “Silent Night”. I’m choosing to celebrate the birth of my Savior.

 

[Dropship]

..You don't know much about the Romans then do you...?
No punishment that involved impalement was a 'quick' death......the longer and more painful it was, the better they liked it..

The gospels correctly say that the Romans sometimes used to break the legs of people being crucified (so that they wouldn't be able to push up to relieve the weight on their breathing muscles and would quickly suffocate).
PS- Between you and me I think I might have Roman genes because I was born and bred in Leicester which over the centuries has been occupied in turn by Stone Age tribes, Romans, Vikings and Normans, heck Rome's notorious 14th Legion was based in Leicester so I might have centurion DNA in me, it'd certainly explain why I'm a computer wargame champion, it's in my blood..:)

 

[Dropship]

..Blood transfusions are not the "life saving" procedures that they were once thought to be..

I wouldn't like a transfusion myself because you never know where it's been, for example it might have been donated by somebody with AIDS, but if we're about to die and only a transfusion can possibly save us, it's a risk we have to take.
That JW woman chose not to risk it and died anyway.

 

[JohnPaul]

Any holiday is what you make it.

I’m reading the nativity story, acting it out with my kids, and singing “Silent Night”. I’m choosing to celebrate the birth of my Savior.

And I respect that Jane, and hold no judgment against you for doing so.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And I respect that Jane, and hold no judgment against you for doing so.

It’s not about be judgmental, it’s about being factual. To say that “Christmas is pagan” is inaccurate- because Christmas is what you make it. Same with any other celebration. Celebrating isn’t evil. Just want to keep celebrations focused on God and good things.

 

[JohnPaul]

It’s not about be judgmental, it’s about being factual. To say that “Christmas is pagan” is inaccurate- because Christmas is what you make it. Same with any other celebration. Celebrating isn’t evil. Just want to keep celebrations focused on God and good things.

But it is Pagan.