Bible alone question
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Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Before I answer that Faith, I have to know what you think it means, as I asked Google to define it and I do not agree with that definition.
The conception of Mary in her mothers womb!
Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope BI. Pius IX - 1854
“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Yes sir I do believe that, Jesus was born sinless as one of his parents was sinless. Glad we agree on this as well, thanks for defining it for me as it was a tad bit different than what I seen on Google.
The son many claim exists but obviously doesn't.
Jesus said to John " behold your mother". To His mother " behold your son."
I don't believe Jesus meant she was John's natural birth mother. What kind of motherhood did Jesus mean?
Jesus didn't require a sinless mother to be born sinless. That He taught perfect human love, it is fitting He experienced perfect human love.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus made clear, He Knew beforehand, who would and who would not accept His offering of Salvation.
Jesus made clear, All who accept His offering of Salvation are MADE adjoined with Him in a personal relationship....whether the person be a male, a female, have a biological daddy, have a biological mommy, have a biological brother, have a biological sister....
...their personal relationship with Jesus...is Spiritual.
...IF they choose to use their relationship terms to other people, regarding their relationship with Jesus...NOT an issue.
Taken
Well-Known Member
@Robert Gwin
Do not agree, R. Gwin.
@Eloy Craft
Do agree.
Scripture expressly reveals all humans are naturally born in sin.
Scripture expressly reveals all humans naturally commit sin.
Mary’s was expressly a Favorable choice For the Lord God to choose her for a particular Service unto the Lord, and WHY she was Favorable is EXPRESSLY revealed IN Scripture...
Agree...WHY she was chosen, had NOT ONE IOTA to do with “her supposedly being naturally born sinnless”...
None of that has any bearing on the meaning of earthly bonds. To me that's a bias caused by 'either-or' kind of thinking.
It's not an either or thing. Jesus didn't come to abolish but to complete and lift up human life in all it's dimensions.
You're right that spiritual bonds take precedence over earthly bonds but that in no way diminishes the value, meaning or more importantly the universal interpersonal dynamic of earthly bonds. The universality that unites individuals of like kind.
When the natural experience of bonding between mother and child must be adjusted to fit our theology it's time to adjust our theology.
I wonder why you are willing to distort natural interpersonal dynamics between Mary and John for the sake of the universal bond between Chistians but unwilling to extend that consistency of purpose to Mary's motherhood.
You can't admit that the womb that Incarnated God is Sacred. Then you insist that the very same womb was used to service carnal needs.
The Jewish priests treated vessels that contained things that were infinitely less holy better than you would allow the vessel that contained Jesus to be treated.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Very true Eloy, if either Adam or Eve would have remained sinless, we would not have inherited sin and death. I suppose it worked out for the best however, as sooner or later some 2 parents would have sinned and then you would have some who die and some who don't. I could only imagine the hatred toward God for being born into a sinful family.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I guess you don't agree because it was me that said it huh Taken, since myself and Eloy said the same thing.
Taken
Well-Known Member
I have no problem agreeing or disagreeing with “specific” things people say.
You are welcome to put “YOUR” quote and “HIS” quote side by side, that you are referencing, but not revealing.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Not that it really matters but:
Jesus didn't require a sinless mother to be born sinless. Eloy
Jesus was born sinless as one of his parents was sinless. Me
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus had TWO “Legal” Earthly parents Both Born IN SIN.
Those TWO “Legal” parents were called by the names;
~ Joseph a Jew, of the House of David.
~ Mary a Jew, with a virgin womb, betrothed to Joseph.
~ Their first born son of man, to be called JESUS.
~ Their first born son of man, revealed HE WOULD BE CALLED:
The Son of God.
On WHAT DAY, DID JESUS, the son of man, BECOME CALLED;
The Son of God?
On the DAY God ANNOUNCED and DECLARED, GOD BEGET His Son.
Heb.1
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb.5
[5] So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Jesus, BABE, revealed, Son of a Jew man, of the House of David, a Jew woman with a Virgin womb, betrothed, One with her husband of the House of David.
THAT ^ Son of Man, “Lawfully of the House of David”, Lawfully “entitled” to SIT as King on kind David’s everlasting Throne.
THAT ^ Son of Man, “Lawfully of the House of David”, Lawfully “entitled” to Abraham’s LAND inheritance.
Pretty HANDY, since, Christ, as you should have learned further reveals....Christ SHALL Sit on King Davids Throne, and Christ’s KINGDOM shall encompass the entirely of the LAND PROMISED, TO Abraham’s Lawful, Faithful Heirs.
@Keraz
JESUS...satisfies MANS- legality that ONLY a man born in Judah, may Sit on King David’s Throne. ONLY a man of the House of David, may Sit on King David’s Throne.
CHRIST...Revealed the SON of GOD- satisfies GODS- legality that ONLY a man born in Judah, of the House of David, Faithful to God, Having the SEED of God, may Sit on King David’s Throne AND BE a rightful Heir to Abraham’s Promised LAND.
*Jesus...a BABE born, called Son of Man.
*Jesus AGE 30 ... BEGOTTEN that day, called CHRIST, the Son of God.
*Jesus NEARING AGE 33...quizzes His Disciples about WHO HE IS...
*NONE of His Disciples, hearing, learning, following Jesus for 3 Years, could ANSWER....WHO Jesus IS.
* GOD gives Simon Barjona the Answer.
* Simon Barjona REPEATS ORALLY what God Told Him.
* The Other Disciples standing by HEARD THE CORRECT ANSWER of “WHO” Jesus IS....ie THE CHRIST, the Son of the Living God.
* All the Disciples thus Forward KNEW the Answer AND Believed the Answer.
* Jesus The Christ, the Son of the Living God...ANNOUNCES..
THAT —-> Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God...
IS the ROCK UPON which HE SHALL BUILD HIS CHURCH.
* There foreword, The BUILDING OF Christ Jesus’ Church BEGINS...
* FIRST to KNOW and BELIEVE;
Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God...Become the First Members of Christ Jesus’ Church.
* There after, EVERY individual WHO thereafter hears, learns, believes, heartfully confesses....Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God...
BECOME MADE MEMBERS of Christ Jesus’ Church...and THUS day by day, from that day to this...
Christ’s Church IS Building, Growing, Increasing in Membership...
* And SHALL continue Increasing In MEMBERSHIP...UNTIL THE DAY...
That Christ Jesus CLOSES the DOOR to His CHURCH, and The Lord CALLS Christ’s entire Church to MEET the Lord...IN A HOLY PLACE...
Gods HOLY PLACE, for men of the Earth, is always UP... mountains, high peaks, and in the clouds.
* Before Gods 1st Great Tribulation; Noah was saved, UP above the face of the earth, in the clouds.
* Moses talked with God, UP above the Face of the earth, in the clouds. (MT. Horeb, aka, Mt. Sina, aka, Mt. Sinai )
* During the Tribulation, Israel shall be called to go to: UP to Gods Holy Mountain;
(Mt. Zion, aka, Mt. Sion; Gods Holy Mt, outskirts of Jerusalem)
* Before Gods 2nd and last Great Tribulation; Members of Christ Jesus Church; shall be saved, called UP above the face of the earth, in the clouds. Called the Rapture. Applies exclusively to: men With AND In Christ.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Why the added information Taken? Jesus is quite simply the son of Mary and Jehovah. That is what the Bible teaches sir, and had nothing to do with your question. Your question was in response to disagreeing with me, and agreeing with someone else even though they said the same thing.
You are correct Joseph was the "legal" father of Jesus, but what is the relevancy of bringing that up?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your simplicity implies to ignore Joesph’s role, then includes, Joseph father of Jesus.
Scripture is knowledge. The understanding of Scripture...falls under two WAYS...
Gods Supernatural WAY...Spiritual Understanding.
Mans natural WAY....Carnal Understanding.
The DIFFERENCES...are NOT “simple”.
JESUS is the NAME given the Son of Man.
He was “LEGALLY” the Son of ManKIND called;...Mary & Joseph.
CHRIST is the NAME given the Son of God.
He is “NOT a LEGAL” Son of ManKIND...He IS solely the Son of God.
ManKIND, (Joseph & Mary) had no part, in their will, their flesh, their blood, their seeds...... regarding JESUS...or CHRIST.
THEIR ROLE...was JESUS would LEGALLY (according to man’s LAW),
BE, their lawful son, a lawful Jew, a lawful Jew of the House of David.
THEIR (Joseph & Mary)ROLE was accomplished.
ISRAEL (Tribal) Men ... GENTILE Men, did not doubt or question, Joseph the father of Jesus, Mary the mother of Jesus.
ISRAEL historical records recorded Joseph and Mary as father and mother of Jesus.
GENTILE (Roman) historical records recorded Joseph and Mary as father and mother of Jesus.
Gods records reveal, CHRIST, is the one called the Son of God, who IS Gods SPIRIT, POWER, WISDOM, SEED of God, and came forth out from God Himself.
Spiritually....LONG BEFORE He, called JESUS, was sent to Mary’s virgin womb and was revealed coming forth from Mary’s virgin womb....
* He, was WITH God, IN God, Came forth OUT FROM God, Remained WITH God, and SENT to Earth.
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
