This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Great example of the usual debate.

Clueless: "Jesus never claimed anywhere to be God."

Christian: "He claimed it many times, many ways. Have you even read the New Testament?"

The bottom line is this: All those who claim Jesus is not God are not Christians. They are here only for the purpose of attacking the Gospel and spreading Abominable Lies.

To deny the divinity of Jesus is to deny Jesus Christ.

Period.

You say that in scripture Jesus said he was God? Then show me in Scripture where God inspired men to write that down?
When someone denies that God gave his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind that's a lie and a deception. Such a lie denies not only the one who was given, God's Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, but is also denying the one that gave his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind, which is, the Only True God the Father and God of Jesus Christ.
God inspired Men to write down Scriptures such as John 3:16; John 17:3; John 20:17.etc. that show Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God who has a Father and God which is also his apostles and disciples Father and God but I haven't found anywhere in the scriptures that God inspired men to write down that Jesus was God or that Jesus said he was God.
Imperfect humans can try to convince me to go by their interpretation of scripture instead of what God inspired men to write down but that's not going to work with me. They can think and call me what they want. God is perfectly capable of inspiring men to write down his thoughts accurately. So since I haven't found anywhere that God inspired men to write down that Jesus is God or that Jesus said he was God, I'm going to go by what God inspired men to write down and not some interpretation of what God wrote down.
 
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Enoch111

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Clueless: "Jesus never claimed anywhere to be God."
This is simply LAUGHABLE, since it can be disproved by Scripture over and over again. So yes, if you do not believe that Jesus is GOD, then you cannot claim to be a Christian.
 
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TLHKAJ

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John 8:42-45
[42]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[43]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Isaiah 55:11
[11]So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 6:38-40
[38]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[39]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


And btw, who is able to raise us up at the last day - BUT GOD!??!!

John 4:34
[34]Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 1:1-5
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The light shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehends it not...

James 1:17
[17]Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


John 12:46
[46]I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


John 1:6-10, 15
[6]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7]The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9]That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[15]John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Notice that John the Baptist, who was 6 months older than Jesus (according to the flesh) said that Jesus was before him.

Consider again...

John 8:56-58
[56]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
[57]Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Speaking of (Jesus) the Word being Light .....

Psalm 119:105
[105]NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.


See, John the Baptist was also a man sent by God. Yet, there is a distinction given.... "He was not that Light but was sent to bear witness of that Light."

There is only one true Light ....Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh. In Him was life and the life was the light of man.

Refer back to John 1:4...
"In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 14:6-9
[6]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Isaiah 9:6
[6]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Now, back to John chapter one...and I will end here. The Word (which was/is God) was made flesh and dwelt among men. He was/is the way, the truth, the life, the light of men, the Creator, the mighty God, the everlasting Father.


John 1:14
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I did this on a small phone screen so idk how cohesive it is till I post it. So many scriptures came to mind as I was typing. Idk if I posted them all.
 
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Pierac

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This is simply LAUGHABLE, since it can be disproved by Scripture over and over again. So yes, if you do not believe that Jesus is GOD, then you cannot claim to be a Christian.

Your words condemn you.... Jesus say exactly the opposite....

Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

Are you a true worshiper according to Jesus ? Do you worship the Father in spirit and truth....? OR do you worship God the father, God the human/hybrid man Son, and God the Holy Spirit? Which do you worship?

Joh 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

If you believe in God the Father and God the son and God the Holy Spirit...then according to Jesus you don't know the only true God... thus NO Eternal life!!!

I AM telling you... It's not Laughable at all!!! You ready for the lake of fire?
Paul

 

GEN2REV

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When someone denies that God gave his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind that's a lie and a deception. Such a lie denies not only the one who was given, God's Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, but is also denying the one that gave his Only Begotten Son to the world of mankind, which is, the Only True God the Father and God of Jesus Christ.
I'll tell you what.

You show any quote from any thread where someone says what you're accusing 'somebody' of saying ..... and I'll show you all the verses where Jesus claims to be God in one way or another.

Beyond that, if you've never seen the verses that show that, you're very unfamiliar with the Bible.

Barney, do you understand that if God Almighty put His Spirit into the egg of Mary, as the Father's sperm, that makes the being that is then born from that divine insemination God?

Do you understand that God spoke to Jesus' parents and informed them that Jesus would be King? Do you also understand that God the Father was known as King all throughout the OT?
Daniel 4:34, Daniel 4:37

Yes, there are verses that call Jesus a prince of this or that, but is He not called King now? And how is it that a King's son is called King and not Prince, Barney? Is God the Father dead now?

Can you explain any of this in a way that supports the ridiculous claim that Jesus is NOT God Almighty?
 

Pierac

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I don't know how you found that.

That's me when I'm not using my laptop to battle evil on Christianity Board.

Are you Jewish or Muslim?

LOL... you do have a sense of humor... Good...there is hope for you yet...

I AM... Neither, Jewish or Muslim.... I was simply chosen by Lot... nothing more or less... a slave to our chosen Christ!


NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Net Bible Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280) since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

Word study
G2820

κληρόω
klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.

Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.

To truly understand what I just posted... You need to be given to see....

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

CEV Joh 6:44 No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

Net Bible Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.

Net Bible
Joh 6:44
-
66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).
sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).

Now don't freak out... GEN2REV... I'm giving you a Pearl!!

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

I told you I AM trying to help you... time to get serious about your beliefs...
Paul
 
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GEN2REV

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LOL... you do have a sense of humor... Good...there hope for you yet...

I AM... Neither, Jewish or Muslim.... I was simply chosen by Lot... nothing more or less... a slave to our chosen Christ!


NASB Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Net Bible Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280) since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

Word study
G2820

κληρόω
klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.

Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.

To truly understand what I just posted... You need to be given to see....

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

CEV Joh 6:44 No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

Net Bible Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.

Net Bible
Joh 6:44
-
66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).
sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).

Now don't freak out... GEN2REV... I'm giving you a Pearl!!

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

I told you I AM trying to help you... time to get serious about your beliefs...
Paul
What does any of that have to do with Jesus being God?

How 'bout a nice 4-inch answer, or less, this time.
 
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Pierac

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John 8:42-45
[42]Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
[43]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44]Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45]And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Isaiah 55:11
[11]So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

John 6:38-40
[38]For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[39]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40]And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


And btw, who is able to raise us up at the last day - BUT GOD!??!!

John 4:34
[34]Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 1:1-5
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The light shines in the darkness and the darkness comprehends it not...

James 1:17
[17]Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


John 12:46
[46]I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.


John 1:6-10, 15
[6]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7]The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9]That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[15]John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Notice that John the Baptist, who was 6 months older than Jesus (according to the flesh) said that Jesus was before him.

Consider again...

John 8:56-58
[56]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
[57]Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Speaking of (Jesus) the Word being Light .....

Psalm 119:105
[105]NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.


See, John the Baptist was also a man sent by God. Yet, there is a distinction given.... "He was not that Light but was sent to bear witness of that Light."

There is only one true Light ....Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh. In Him was life and the life was the light of man.

Refer back to John 1:4...
"In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

John 14:6-9
[6]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Isaiah 9:6
[6]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Now, back to John chapter one...and I will end here. The Word (which was/is God) was made flesh and dwelt among men. He was the way, the truth, the life, the light of men, the Creator, the mighty God, the everlasting Father.


John 1:14
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I did this on a small phone screen so idk how cohesive it is till I post it. So many scriptures came to mind as I was typing. Idk if I posted them all.

Given that you have taken up 90% of the 10,000 word limit... I would say... Yea... don't post on your phone!

So actually pick a verse... seriously... the one verse you actually feel is so important... to your beliefs... and get ready for a spiritual spanking!
Come on... TLHKAJ.... I AM ready!
Paul
 

Pierac

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What does any of that have to do with Jesus being God?

How 'bout a nice 4-inch answer, or less, this time.

It has nothing to do with Jesus being God... It has to do with you burning in the lake of fire... Pay attention!!! I AM trying to help you!!! The very fact... I AM trying to help you...gives you hope!

:(
Paul
 
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GEN2REV

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Given that you have taken up 90% of the 10,000 word limit... I would say... Yea... don't post on your phone!

So actually pick a verse... seriously... the one verse you actually feel is so important... to your beliefs... and get ready for a spiritual spanking!
Come on... TLHKAJ.... I AM ready!
Paul
Weren't you asking for all those verses, Pie Rack?

There ya go. Post #103. That's a good start for all the verses you claimed didn't exist.
 
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TLHKAJ

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Given that you have taken up 90% of the 10,000 word limit... I would say... Yea... don't post on your phone!

So actually pick a verse... seriously... the one verse you actually feel is so important... to your beliefs... and get ready for a spiritual spanking!
Come on... TLHKAJ.... I AM ready!
Paul
If you don't have the mental capacity to read scripture, then skip on by.....
 

Pierac

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If you don't have the mental capacity to read scripture, then skip on by.....

No you just took up 99% of any response... from this forum.... Given that you have 5475 post.... You of all people know when you click reply... you only get 10,000 words to reply... Given that you have selfishly have taken 9,950 of those 10,000 words to respond don't be a Joe Biden!!!

Now pick a verse and let me show you how's it's done!

See how easy it to expose you!!!
Paul
 
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Pierac

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Ok with the I AM's already.

Are you claiming to be Jesus or claiming to be God?

No.... It's the traditions of men that think that somehow saying I AM is claiming to be God... I never made such a claim... yet your traditions of men... could not let it go.... thus... I AM!
 

bbyrd009

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Jesus didn't correct them ...and He never backed down from setting people straight.
well, i think He had a precedent of not testifying of Himself; not that there was any reason to deny that He was the son of God anyway, but also no reason to affirm it idt
 

Pierac

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Whoops.

That's not the thread we're in.

You're off topic.

No my friend... It's all about the chosen... those whom are given to Jesus... in the coming Kingdom... if you believe in the Trinity... you will not understand the following verses...

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

CEV Joh 6:44 No one can come to me, unless the Father who sent me makes them want to come. But if they do come, I will raise them to life on the last day.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him,66 and I will raise him up at the last day.
Net Bible
66 tn Or "attracts him," or "pulls him." The word is used of pulling or dragging, often by force. It is even used once of magnetic attraction (A. Oepke, TDNT 2:503).
sn The Father who sent me draws him. The author never specifically explains what this "drawing" consists of. It is evidently some kind of attraction; whether it is binding and irresistible or not is not mentioned. But there does seem to be a parallel with Joh_6:65, where Jesus says that no one is able to come to him unless the Father has allowed it. This apparently parallels the use of Isaiah by John to reflect the spiritual blindness of the Jewish leaders (see the quotations from Isaiah in Joh_9:41 and Joh_12:39-40).

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

You simply don't understand GEN2REV.... It's all connected... and NO... I AM not a Calvinist either.... I simply AM
Paul
 

TLHKAJ

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well, i think He had a precedent of not testifying of Himself; not that there was any reason to deny that He was the son of God anyway, but also no reason to affirm it idt
Jesus stated over that He was the Son of God and that He (is) was God.
 

Pierac

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Jesus stated over that He was the Son of God and that He (is) was God.
Yet Jesus also loved to say he was the "Son of Man"... See how many more times Jesus made that claim vs "Son of God" TLHKAJ.... Jesus never...ever claimed to be God.... Jesus knew He had a God...

" (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Who does the works TLHKAJ.... Jesus or His God???
Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

My God... TLHKAJ.... Jesus is talking about His GOD!!!

Rev 3:2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God.

Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

My God.... what's going on... Jeus is talking about His God after he is risen from the dead.... BTY... Don't miss the new name part...

You speak as a child TLHKAJ... now get back to posting your wonder verse this time without taking up all 10,000 words!

BTY would you like to see exactly how many times Jesus called himself the Son of man vs Son of God???? You won't like it!

I Am ready to help
Paul