Why do Catholics…

[Brakelite]

Ummmmm....because He told you to....

Aaah, but did He? Strange that it took 1200 years for your church to officially recognize this.

 

[Marymog]

Aaah, but did He? Strange that it took 1200 years for your church to officially recognize this.

It is strange that you think that AND it shows your lack of knowledge of Scripture and your own Christian history.

Jesus said it IS his flesh.

Paul said it IS his flesh: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

The Church agrees with Jesus and Paul..... Brakelite doesn't.....

The Church agrees with Christian history from the NT era: “Do not give what is holy to dogs.” Here is a link so you can study your Christian history in regard to that quote; The Early Christians and the Eucharist: The Didache – Early Christians

Here are 2 quotes from a student of the Apostle John: They [the Docetists, early Christological heretics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110], emphasis added).

So, to recap your lesson for today: Jesus said it IS his flesh. SEVERAL years later Paul concurred with Him. My Christian ancestors who were alive at the time the NT was being written concurred with them. A student of and Apostles re-affirmed it in VERY CLEAR LANGUAGE.

Bible study and history professor.............. Mary

 

[RedFan]

I like Marymog's quotes from Ignatius of Antioch (although not her condescending attitude toward Brakelite with that "your lesson for today" comment). I'm happy to add a few more quotes from the early Church Fathers:

Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch. 66 (“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh”);

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book IV, ch. 18 § 5 (“Then, again, how can they say that the flesh, which is nourished with the body of the Lord and with His blood, goes to corruption and does not partake of life? . . . For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity”);

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, ch. 2 § 3 (“When, therefore, the mingled cup and the manufactured bread receives the Word of God, and the Eucharist of the blood and the body of Christ is made, from which things the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they affirm that the flesh is incapable of receiving the gift of God, which is life eternal, which [flesh] is nourished from the body and blood of the Lord, and is a member of Him?”).

And I'm not a Roman Catholic!

 

[Philip James]

I like Marymog's quotes from Ignatius of Antioch (although not her condescending attitude toward Brakelite with that "your lesson for today" comment). I'm happy to add a few more quotes from the early Church Fathers:

Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch. 66 (“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh”);

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book IV, ch. 18 § 5 (“Then, again, how can they say that the flesh, which is nourished with the body of the Lord and with His blood, goes to corruption and does not partake of life? . . . For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity”);

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, ch. 2 § 3 (“When, therefore, the mingled cup and the manufactured bread receives the Word of God, and the Eucharist of the blood and the body of Christ is made, from which things the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they affirm that the flesh is incapable of receiving the gift of God, which is life eternal, which [flesh] is nourished from the body and blood of the Lord, and is a member of Him?”).

And I'm not a Roman Catholic!

Hello RedFan,

I think Bishop Barron does a great job tracing this through the history of the Church here:

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[amigo de christo]

Wow using a verse that contradicts you to defend your position??? That is funny! No Scripture is of anyone ones interpretation! Men spoke as God gave them the words! YOu need to relook at teh verse and see it condemns your position.

exactly my friend . They need to read what that plainly says . Peter is simply saying that THE SCRIPTURES came not from men
IT CAME from GOD who spoke through men .

 

[Marymog]

I like Marymog's quotes from Ignatius of Antioch (although not her condescending attitude toward Brakelite with that "your lesson for today" comment). I'm happy to add a few more quotes from the early Church Fathers:

Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch. 66 (“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh”);

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book IV, ch. 18 § 5 (“Then, again, how can they say that the flesh, which is nourished with the body of the Lord and with His blood, goes to corruption and does not partake of life? . . . For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity”);

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, ch. 2 § 3 (“When, therefore, the mingled cup and the manufactured bread receives the Word of God, and the Eucharist of the blood and the body of Christ is made, from which things the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they affirm that the flesh is incapable of receiving the gift of God, which is life eternal, which [flesh] is nourished from the body and blood of the Lord, and is a member of Him?”).

And I'm not a Roman Catholic!

I do respect what the ECF's had to say and especially what the Apostolic Fathers wrote.

I was condescending and I apologize to @Brakelite. I should not have said that.

Mary

 

[RedFan]

Hello RedFan,

I think Bishop Barron does a great job tracing this through the history of the Church here:

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Thanks for this, PJ. It was a long video, but worth getting through. I do think the Real Presence is fairly well attested.

 

[Marymog]

OP: Why does Roman Religion communion?...

...LEAVE OUT Part of God's Word, Through Paul?:

1Co_11:26 "For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,
ye do shew The LORD's Death till He come." = Symbolic!
..

Hey Grace,

There is not a single passage of Scripture that suggest it was symbolic. The Protestant Revolution started that lie. You left off the verses BEFORE that verse: “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

Paul has a question for you: Is the cup of blessing which we bless not a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is the bread which we break not a sharing in the body of Christ? What is your answer to Paul?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Non serviam is always the enemy's cry..

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that the antichrist was coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. Thus we know this is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Actually it is the biblical command when dealing with an unrepentant heretic

 

[Philip James]

Actually it is the biblical command when dealing with an unrepentant heretic

Interesting.. Can you cite that for me? And what qualifies one to judge who is a heretic?

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[amigo de christo]

Interesting.. Can you cite that for me? And what qualifies one to judge who is a heretic?

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

We should . GOD approves of it . Or have you never read the warning to the ephesians .
YE have TRIED THEM who claim to be apostels and have FOUND them LIARS .
That was a good thing . I suggest we return to bible reading and learn and grow in the wisdom
of Christ that the true apostels wrote about and their own simple letters to the Churches , as well as all biblical doctrine .
By grace i have tested many men and have found them liars and decievers . I suggest we test all men .
And remember this too . YE ALLOW that prophetess jezebel to teach and to seduce my people . GOD was ANGRY about that .
SO by all means i am gonna expose false ones and warn all to never once heed them .

 

[amigo de christo]

Actually it is the biblical command when dealing with an unrepentant heretic

Exactly . How often paul warned . FLEE SUCH MEN . exactly . Eat not with .............etc .
Yes indeed . yes indeed my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

And as for unity , read this . MARK those who cause divisions that are CONTRARY to the DOCTRINE YE HAVE LEARNED .
AND AVOID THEM . SO much for the unity of pope francis and other protestants who over LOOK sound doctrine
FOR sake of unity . AS I SAID , OPEN BIBLES READ BIBLES . AND grow in wisdom ye shall . And beware the CC
and many others who also are out to decieve . Test all men , correct error , if they refuse to heed the correction
then do as the early church did , cast them out , eat not with till they repent of the falsehoods .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Interesting.. Can you cite that for me? And what qualifies one to judge who is a heretic?

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

The bible as written is the one qualified to define a heretic.

Titus 3:10-11
King James Version

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Paul knew how easy it was to tell people. All they had was the word of God spoken through the apostles. They did not have all the religious mumbo jumbo we have today. It really is that simple- If someone teaches something contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture- reject them!

 

[Philip James]

cast them out

Indeed..

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

And here is some more of St.Ignatius along these lines:

4:1 Be ye careful therefore to observe one eucharist
(for there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and
one cup unto union in His blood; there is one altar,
as there is one bishop, together with the presbtery
and the deacons my fellow-servants), that whatsoever
ye do, ye may do it after God

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Philadelphians (Lightfoot translation)

If you are not partaking of the ONE CUP, the Cup of Salvation nor tbe ONE BREAD, the Bread of Life that Jesus gave to the apostles, then where are you?

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Philip James]

Paul knew how easy it was to tell people. All they had was the word of God spoken through the apostles

"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.

If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector

If we are not willing to submit to the mind of the Church, what does our non serviam do for us?

For "who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[amigo de christo]

Indeed..

They went out from us, but they were not really of our number; if they had been, they would have remained with us. Their desertion shows that none of them was of our number.

And here is some more of St.Ignatius along these lines:

4:1 Be ye careful therefore to observe one eucharist
(for there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ and
one cup unto union in His blood; there is one altar,
as there is one bishop, together with the presbtery
and the deacons my fellow-servants), that whatsoever
ye do, ye may do it after God

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Philadelphians (Lightfoot translation)

If you are not partaking of the ONE CUP, the Cup of Salvation nor tbe ONE BREAD, the Bread of Life that Jesus gave to the apostles, then where are you?

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

I do communion . I just dont drink of the cup of a harlot . I wish folks truly understood this .
Many are abandoning the true faith for a common ground unity with A harlot . It truly sadness my soul .
ALL i desire is good for the people .

 

[Brakelite]

The Church agrees with Jesus and Paul..... Brakelite doesn't.....

Hi Mary. I agree with Jesus when He said He is a door. That doesn't mean He's slab of pine with hinges. I also agree with Jesus and the apostles and the entire OT when they forbade drinking of blood.
Your church, when it controlled the state, persecuted and killed those who disagreed with Rome's literal understanding of communion. This discussion can not end well I believe for either of us. I think the time has come to cease and desist. God bless.

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary. I agree with Jesus when He said He is a door. That doesn't mean He's slab of pine with hinges. I also agree with Jesus and the apostles and the entire OT when they forbade drinking of blood.
Your church, when it controlled the state, persecuted and killed those who disagreed with Rome's literal understanding of communion. This discussion can not end well I believe for either of us. I think the time has come to cease and desist. God bless.

Lol Brakelite...Good point. He is not a "slab of pine with hinges". He was clearly using a metaphor! No one disagrees with that!

However, Jesus miraculously fed 5,000 bread believers by multiplying loaves of bread. Right after that he told us he is the bread of life and that we must eat him. He equated himself to real bread (manna) from heaven that our ancestors ate. At the Last Supper He then showed us how to eat him via bread and told us this is my body and to do it in remembrance of Him.

Many years later Paul then rhetorically asked His believers a question. What we have to remember is that a rhetorical question is actually a statement. Paul's rhetorical question as a statement would look like this: The cup of blessing which we bless is a communion of the blood of Christ. The bread which we break is a communion of the body of Christ.

The important thing to remember is that Paul wrote Corinthians 20+ years AFTER the death of Jesus. That is evidence that for 20 years Christians have been practicing and believing what Paul wrote and what Jesus told us to do: The cup of blessing which we bless is a communion of the blood of Christ. The bread which we break is a communion of the body of Christ.

On top of that Paul said, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

The earliest Christian writings we have (the Didache) that was written during the NT era and before some NT books call communion (bread/wine) holy and a student of the Apostles John (Ignatius) said that some do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ and that he desires the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible!

So brakelite, here is what you need to ask the men who taught you the bible: Jesus told us to participate in the communion of bread/wine and that the bread/wine is his body/blood. The NT Christians clearly did what He told them to do. Over 20 years later Paul said that when we gather for the Lords Supper it is a communion in His body/blood. How can one eat a "metaphor" or symbol in an unworthy manner and be guilty of sinning? Our NT Christian forefathers called the bread of communion holy. You don't teach that it is holy. Why is what you are teaching me opposite of what they taught and why should I believe you over them? You were not a student of an Apostle. A student of John, Ignatius, said that the bread at communion is the flesh of Jesus just like Paul said it was and Jesus said it was. Who should I believe? Ignatius or you?

Can you show me in Scripture and historical Christian writings where there is that much clarification or explaining on Jesus calling himself a door? There is none. Why? Because his door statement was clearly a metaphor and His listeners knew that. His bread statement was not. He really meant what he told us to do. The beauty of it, he showed us HOW to do it.

Bible Study and Historical Mary

 

[Philip James]

I do communion . I just dont drink of the cup of a harlot . I wish folks truly understood this .

Hello amigo,

You do communion? From what cup do you drink? How did it come to you?

Do you think anyone can take some bread and wine and say here is the One Cup and the One Loaf that Jesus gave to the apostles?

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!