The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

the rights already existed, our Founders just made sure that govt understood that.

Something that the Pilgrim Fathers would never have done

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Imagine thinking the right to self defense is a “crazy” right. It makes me wonder what other rights we have do you consider to be crazy?

Blowing each other away is just plain crazy

 

[Wrangler]

Another FACT that you guys cannot stomach

LOL. The 2A is a fact that you cannot stomach.

I see that you are from the UK. Not sure why you are bothering with us backwater rebels anyway.

Having said that, have you read The Rise and Fall of the British Empire by Lawrence James? It is excellent. The world is better off because of the British Empire and I am proud to have that as part of my culture.

 

[Wrangler]

Blowing each other away is just plain crazy

It's just crazy that you say stuff like that. We ought to make you go through an approval process to exercise independent choices you want to make.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

LOL. The 2A is a fact that you cannot stomach.

I see that you are from the UK. Not sure why you are bothering with us backwater rebels anyway.

Having said that, have you read The Rise and Fall of the British Empire by Lawrence James? It is excellent. The world is better off because of the British Empire and I am proud to have that as part of my culture.

My OP is about the insane 2A!

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

LOL. The 2A is a fact that you cannot stomach.

I see that you are from the UK. Not sure why you are bothering with us backwater rebels anyway.

Having said that, have you read The Rise and Fall of the British Empire by Lawrence James? It is excellent. The world is better off because of the British Empire and I am proud to have that as part of my culture.

Remember that over 50 MILLION Americans can trace their heritage to good ol England :cool:

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BUMP:

QUOTE: ByGraceThroughFaith

regarding the references to the "swords" in Matthew and Luke, it is clear that Jesus was saying in Luke, "it is enough" (Luke 22:38), not that 2 swords is all that they would need to defend themselves against a larger group of people. It is clear that when considered with Matthew's account, that Jesus means, stop talking about weapons to defend yourselves. In fact, this is clear from verse 53 of Matthew 26, "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?". This follows, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword". It is by the MIGHT of the Lord that His Children are really protected!​

QUOTE: Bobby Jo

You make wonderful arguments, -- however they're not Scriptural --, but if they were then you could explain why Jesus gave NEW INSTRUCTIONS to the church (anticipating his departure on earth) where HE told the church to take a PURSE, BAG, and a SWORD, -- ALL THREE -- when they go out. But you can't, explain ALL THREE, so you focus on the ONE in the hopes that the church will be deceived by twisting Scripture as though GOD would send Twelve Legions of Angels to provide for your NEEDS along with your PROTECTION.

And I don't mind that people abuse GOD's Word, but I DO MIND that they insist that they are OBEYING when in fact they are DISOBEYING.

So back to Dan. 1:21 & 10:1, -- if you can't solve the Luke 22 citation, can you solve the more simple Daniel citation? And conversely, if you simply want to go your own way and suffer your own consequences, -- GOOD LUCK --, because you're going to need it.


FIVE MONTHS until the End of the Tribulation.
Bobby Jo​

Isn't it interesting how Christians deceive their fellows? They propose a premise which is not Scriptural, and then refuse to defend the indefensible.

Dishonest/disreputable/deceptive, -- Just Like JESUS --. Yeah not.
Bobby Jo

#1. The main purpose of the swords was to fulfill the prophecy of Jesus being numbered with the transgressors (See: Luke 22:37).

#2. The disciples technically did not obey this instruction in the moment. They did not each sell their garment for them to each have a sword, but they brought forth only two swords (See: Luke 22:38).

#3. Jesus said the two swords were enough - which appears to go against his original instruction for them to each have a sword (Luke 22:38). We know our Lord does not contradict himself, and so the purpose of these swords was to of course shortly fulfill prophecy.

#4. In Matthew 26:47-56, we learn the result of what happened involving the swords. No victory battle was won. No lesson of self defense using Violence was taught.

#5. In Matthew 26:47-56, we learn a lesson of Non-Violence involving the sword:

(a) Jesus rebukes Peter for chopping off Malchus’ ear (in using his sword) and say he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword.
(b) Jesus rebukes Peter for using his sword by telling him to put his sword back in its place.
(c) Jesus rebukes Peter for using his sword by telling him that
He could have asked the Father to send down twelve legions of angels to protect Him.
(d) Jesus undoes Peter’s damage by healing Malchus’ ear.
​

#6. When we read the New Testament: Besides the incident with Peter and Jesus’ arrest, we learn that the apostles did not continue to carry swords in the New Testament as per the instruction of Luke 22:36. The purpose of the swords in Luke 22:36 was to fulfill prophecy. So after Peter’s incident with the sword, we read nothing about the disciples carrying swords or using swords to kill or harm others in their own self defense. Some noteworthy places of swords being absent would be Acts of the Apostles 5:40, and Acts of the Apostles 7.

So this means either:

(a) The instruction in Luke 22:36 that says, “he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one” could have referred ONLY to the two disciples who were able to sell their garment in order to obtain swords for themselves (Hence it was the two swords needed to fulfill prophecy of Jesus being numbered with the transgressors, and not so as to use in Violent Self Defense or to make War), or:
(b) The disciples later took the words of Jesus in Luke 22:36 to be entirely spiritual in its meaning in regards to the sword, and other materials, or:
(c) The disciples took the words of Jesus to mean that the swords could only be brought out for times of hunting and not for using in violence against men so as to harm them or kill them. So only those disciples who hunted for food would be responsible in carrying out the task so as to feed the entire body of Christ. Seeing we don’t hear about these particular disciples who hunted for meat, this would explain why the other disciples did not have swords.​

#7. Even the early church fathers had taught Non-Violence just like Jesus and the early apostles (while one is living out their faith).

#8. The New Testament teaches Non-Violence. See my post here for the list of verses.

 

[Wrangler]

My OP is about the insane 2A!

Fortunately for you, in America, you are entitled to your opinion - wrong though it may be.

I've said for decades, I'll be happy to give up guns - once all the nations of the world's military and police give up their guns and there are no more violent crimes. Otherwise, what's crazy is to give up inventions that provide net benefits.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

My OP is about the insane 2A!

what you call insane, millions of us call a life saver.

 

[Ziggy]

I absolutely would as that is what my nature is.

I am not a leftist. I am a moderate. I don't care for those videos because it is conspiracy to me, no matter who it comes from. They won't be doing what they said. That is why I said people talk, doesn't mean that they will do what they're saying.

If it does happen it happens, I will deal with it then. That is how I do things.

I don't understand the part "If it happens" , it's happening.
We are living in prophecy right now.
The beast system is risen. And it's coming for the children.
You either see it or you don't.
And I can't make you see.

Uvalde was a false flag. Staged event. And all the regular actors are involved. FBI, CIA, all the intel agencies.
They don't care. They want you unarmed and defenseless because when they have all the guns they will have no fear.

One could imagine when Jesus was talking concerning the end of the age, that many around him considered him a conspiracy theorist.
That won't happen. And when Jerusalem fell in 70AD, it was too late for many of them to escape.
They should have listened. But you know, only His sheep hear his voice.
And the Trumpet is Loud. Very LOUD. But only a few can hear it.
Sad, so sad.

We live in very evil times and there are very sick people running it.
Wear your mask, keep your distance, get the jab or 2 or 4. Be a good slave, do as your told and they might let you live and not hook you up to a ventilator and give you drugs that sedate you, and keep your family away so they can't say goodbye while they kill you.
Because they like fear. They thrive off fear. And once you live in fear, they own you.

Annie.. get yer gun.
serious

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

what you call insane, millions of us call a life saver.

And what about the THOUSANDS who have lost their lives because of it?

 

[Ziggy]

And what about the THOUSANDS who have lost their lives because of it?

Then you should write to your congressman/woman and tell them to stop allowing weapons free flow through the southern border and being dropped off in inner cities for gangs to get a hold of.
The problem is not law abiding citizens, it's the criminals.
What part of ILLEGAL do people NOT understand??

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Then you should write to your congressman/woman and tell them to stop allowing weapons free flow through the southern border and being dropped off in inner cities for gangs to get a hold of.
The problem is not law abiding citizens, it's the criminals.
What part of ILLEGAL do people NOT understand??

I am from good old England!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BUMP:

QUOTE: ByGraceThroughFaith

regarding the references to the "swords" in Matthew and Luke, it is clear that Jesus was saying in Luke, "it is enough" (Luke 22:38), not that 2 swords is all that they would need to defend themselves against a larger group of people. It is clear that when considered with Matthew's account, that Jesus means, stop talking about weapons to defend yourselves. In fact, this is clear from verse 53 of Matthew 26, "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?". This follows, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword". It is by the MIGHT of the Lord that His Children are really protected!​

QUOTE: Bobby Jo

You make wonderful arguments, -- however they're not Scriptural --, but if they were then you could explain why Jesus gave NEW INSTRUCTIONS to the church (anticipating his departure on earth) where HE told the church to take a PURSE, BAG, and a SWORD, -- ALL THREE -- when they go out. But you can't, explain ALL THREE, so you focus on the ONE in the hopes that the church will be deceived by twisting Scripture as though GOD would send Twelve Legions of Angels to provide for your NEEDS along with your PROTECTION.

And I don't mind that people abuse GOD's Word, but I DO MIND that they insist that they are OBEYING when in fact they are DISOBEYING.

So back to Dan. 1:21 & 10:1, -- if you can't solve the Luke 22 citation, can you solve the more simple Daniel citation? And conversely, if you simply want to go your own way and suffer your own consequences, -- GOOD LUCK --, because you're going to need it.


FIVE MONTHS until the End of the Tribulation.
Bobby Jo​

Isn't it interesting how Christians deceive their fellows? They propose a premise which is not Scriptural, and then refuse to defend the indefensible.

Dishonest/disreputable/deceptive, -- Just Like JESUS --. Yeah not.
Bobby Jo

The primary existence of the two swords was to fulfill prophecy.
This fact is not under dispute because that is what Luke 22:37 says in context to Luke 22:36.

After the incident of Peter using his sword at Jesus’ arrest, we see no existence of any swords by any disciples. There are several possibilities for this and not one of them includes Violent Self Defense because this would have changed how we would read the book of Acts of the Apostles.

Anyways, one possibility that I hold to in giving us a reason why the disciples did not carry swords (after the sword incident with Peter) is because Jesus was speaking entirely in spiritual terms in Luke 22:36 and yet He counted on His disciples misunderstanding Him so as to fulfill prophecy in being numbered with the transgressors. What is the spiritual meaning?

(1) Money bag = The disciples continuing to have spiritual treasure in Heaven by loving their neighbor, or the poor,
(2) Knapsack = The disciples continuing to have spiritual rest in Christ and His grace,
(3) Sell your coat or garment = Sell your old covenant way of thinking, and
(4) Buy a sword = Embrace or buy into the New Covenant Way or Teachings by the Spirit - or in our case - look to New Testament Scriptures, i.e. the sword of the Spirit).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BUMP:

QUOTE: ByGraceThroughFaith

regarding the references to the "swords" in Matthew and Luke, it is clear that Jesus was saying in Luke, "it is enough" (Luke 22:38), not that 2 swords is all that they would need to defend themselves against a larger group of people. It is clear that when considered with Matthew's account, that Jesus means, stop talking about weapons to defend yourselves. In fact, this is clear from verse 53 of Matthew 26, "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?". This follows, "Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword". It is by the MIGHT of the Lord that His Children are really protected!​

QUOTE: Bobby Jo

You make wonderful arguments, -- however they're not Scriptural --, but if they were then you could explain why Jesus gave NEW INSTRUCTIONS to the church (anticipating his departure on earth) where HE told the church to take a PURSE, BAG, and a SWORD, -- ALL THREE -- when they go out. But you can't, explain ALL THREE, so you focus on the ONE in the hopes that the church will be deceived by twisting Scripture as though GOD would send Twelve Legions of Angels to provide for your NEEDS along with your PROTECTION.

And I don't mind that people abuse GOD's Word, but I DO MIND that they insist that they are OBEYING when in fact they are DISOBEYING.

So back to Dan. 1:21 & 10:1, -- if you can't solve the Luke 22 citation, can you solve the more simple Daniel citation? And conversely, if you simply want to go your own way and suffer your own consequences, -- GOOD LUCK --, because you're going to need it.


FIVE MONTHS until the End of the Tribulation.
Bobby Jo​

Isn't it interesting how Christians deceive their fellows? They propose a premise which is not Scriptural, and then refuse to defend the indefensible.

Dishonest/disreputable/deceptive, -- Just Like JESUS --. Yeah not.
Bobby Jo

You also said, Jesus gave new instructions to the church (Which would have been Luke 22:36).

This is not possible because the church did not exist until Pentecost. This is common knowledge that is accepted by most Christians.

Check out this article here:
Did the church begin in John 20:22 or at Pentecost in Acts 2:4? | Bible.org
(Note: While I may agree with this article, this does not mean I agree with everything Bible.org writes).

You also said that the church (disciples) anticipated Christ’s departure on the Earth.

This again is not true. The disciples were clueless to Christ’s death and resurrection when Jesus spoke about it ahead of time (See: Luke 18:33-34).
Even after Christ had risen, and the women came to tell the other disciples that they seen the risen Jesus, they did not ultimately believe their testimonies that Christ was risen (See: Luke 24:9-11).

 

[Ziggy]

I am from good old England!

We have this argument going on over on this side of the pond,
Women who advocate for free choice rather than pro-life tell men all the time,
your not a woman so you have no say in a woman's rights to choose.

You say you live in England? And this convo is about Americas rights to bear arms...
comprende?

 

[Naomanos]

I don't understand the part "If it happens" , it's happening.
We are living in prophecy right now.
The beast system is risen. And it's coming for the children.
You either see it or you don't.
And I can't make you see.

Uvalde was a false flag. Staged event. And all the regular actors are involved. FBI, CIA, all the intel agencies.
They don't care. They want you unarmed and defenseless because when they have all the guns they will have no fear.

One could imagine when Jesus was talking concerning the end of the age, that many around him considered him a conspiracy theorist.
That won't happen. And when Jerusalem fell in 70AD, it was too late for many of them to escape.
They should have listened. But you know, only His sheep hear his voice.
And the Trumpet is Loud. Very LOUD. But only a few can hear it.
Sad, so sad.

We live in very evil times and there are very sick people running it.
Wear your mask, keep your distance, get the jab or 2 or 4. Be a good slave, do as your told and they might let you live and not hook you up to a ventilator and give you drugs that sedate you, and keep your family away so they can't say goodbye while they kill you.
Because they like fear. They thrive off fear. And once you live in fear, they own you.

Annie.. get yer gun.
serious

I am currently wearing a mask right now while at work even though we are not required to. I have at risk people in my life a d I have asthma. So, the mask makes sense for me.

I am sorry that you have listened to whatever you have listened to and come to these conclusions. I am aware that there will be the mark of the beast. It hasn't happened yet. There will be tribulation and this isnt it.

The latest mass shooting was not a false flag, but you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this and these other events as I believe 911 was real and not a government staged event. I believe Covid wasn't a staged event.

I don't go around in fear of what might transpire. I live my life to the best of my ability. I provide for my family to the best of my ability. I will defend my family to the best of my ability, but I don't go around looking for things to fear. If I did, I would go crazy. No thanks!

You keep doing as you wish! It's your life, not mine. Believe as you wish. I shall do the same!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

GREAT POST!!! One of the best I have ever read! Thanks for writing this!

You are most welcome.

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you greatly.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

And what about the THOUSANDS who have lost their lives because of it?

so what happens if they did ban guns, and the murder rate went up since no one could protect themselves? Then what? Ban knives or bow and arrows??
You keep blaming it on the guns instead of people. Do you not understand how evil people are??

 

[Grailhunter]

I absolutely would as that is what my nature is.

I am not a leftist. I am a moderate. I don't care for those videos because it is conspiracy to me, no matter who it comes from. They won't be doing what they said. That is why I said people talk, doesn't mean that they will do what they're saying.

If it does happen it happens, I will deal with it then. That is how I do things.

LOL I kind of like conspiracy theories, they are like spooky stories around the campfire.
But as it is today, conspiracies as in hidden agendas at the country level or global level can in some cases be true.
There was a time if you said, you saw a giant squid or a monkey bigger than a man, they would say you were a lunatic, until they found them....same thing goes for UFO's, now they are filming several of them nearly everyday.

The question is, is there any truth to the theories?
Communism can only work if the tyrannical state exist worldwide.