Timing of the abomination of desolation

[Truth7t7]

Jesus s

I agree that everything written in Matthew 24 and everything said in Matthew 24 *ultimately* has something to do with the 2nd Coming. But that's not the explicit reason Jesus brought this subject up.

He initially raised the issue of the temple being destroyed, and he was asked about it. So much of the Discourse is about that.

He was asked explicitly when it would take place, and he explicitly said "all these things will take place in this generation," referring to the birth pains leading up to and include the fall of the temple.

But Jesus was also asked about his coming into his Kingdom, and he was asked when this would happen, as well. And he explicitly separated his Coming in his Kingdom from the things to happen in his own generation by saying that his coming would follow a long period of Jewish exile, which would only begin in his generation. This clearly separated his coming from things to happen only in his own generation.

And he said it would happen at an undated time, meaning that no specific day will be given for it. We only know from him that he will come *after* the exile, or diaspora, of the Jewish People, meaning that it will take place long *after* the fall of the temple, and long after Jesus' generation.

Please prove any of these things wrong, if you wish to discuss. Otherwise, I'll just let you believe what you want to believe, and I can believe what I want to believe?

You'll get no hostility from me unless you deliberately wish to be rude. And if we're brothers, this shouldn't happen.

Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, not a 70AD literal destruction as you suggest

The temple was the Lord's body, as the parishes looked at a literal temple, just as Randy Kluth

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[covenantee]

The literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ seen in Matthew 24:30-31 below is "Future" unfulfilled, and it wasn't fulfilled in 70AD Jerusalem

Matthew 24:30-31KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

But Matthew 24:15-16 was fulfilled in 66 AD.

 

[covenantee]

This is your mistake. The Discourse from Matthew 24:3 onward, does not mention the Temple. Matthew 24:1-2 was fulfilled in 70 AD.

Who are "you"?
Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Who are "you"?
Matthew 24:4
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus s

Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, not a 70AD literal destruction as you suggest

When Jesus said every *stone* would come down, he was being quite literal! To interpret something as "spiritual," the context must clearly imply that or infer that. You can't just say, if someone mentions a tree, that it is a "spiritual tree." But if someone said that in a vision they saw a tree planted in the sea, we would know, for sure, that this is metaphorical, or "spiritual."

Jesus' body was indeed a temple of sorts, but not literally a building made of wood and stone. So I suppose you could call his body a "spiritual temple," or a different kind of temple than we might ordinarily think of a temple.

But Jesus literally was God's temple, since God inhabited him. He had come to fulfill the temple of wood and stone that had been intended only to prepare the way for him, God's true, everlasting temple.

But when Jesus came to be that final temple, he had to dispose of the old temple. The covenant governing the temple Law was being broken irretrievably. And Jesus' death made that covenant cease to exist, leaving only him as God's final and everlasting temple.

So when Jesus referred to the passing away of the old temple, he was being quite literal. And the Romans literally destroyed that temple--every stone.

 

[Keraz]

Give me a break

Right: there was a break. Jesus told them that the Temple would be totally destroyed, Matthew 24:1-2.
Then they all walked over to the Mount of Olives, at least a half hour walk, just to get to the Garden of Gethsemane, near the bottom. Remember; the East Gate was and still is bricked up, they would have had to come out of the Temple Mount via the bridge, now called Robinsons arch and circle around the city wall, then descend past the huge Jewish Cemetery; down into the Kidron valley, thru the rubbish dumped there at that time and up maybe to halfway on the Mt of Olives, where there is a clear platform with a great view. An enterprising Arab took our photo there!

THEN; He told them about events just before and after His Return.
If people don't want to believe Jesus Words, His clear prophesies about what the generation present near the end times, will experience; that that is their choice.
Myself, I fully expect to see it all and knowing God's plans for His people during the difficult times ahead, will make getting thru it so much easier.

 

[Keraz]

Who are "you"?
Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Who are "you"?
Matthew 24:4
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

You; is everyone who reads the Words of Jesus.
Jesus did not give His Salvation only to the people of His time. It is for all time, We are the beneficiaries at this time.
Prophecy, of course; only applies to the time God decrees it to take place.

Your attempts to avoid the possibility of yourself actually having to experience forthcoming dramatic events, is foolishness and just leaves you in the dark. 2 Thessalonians 5:1-11

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep. Same with Preterism and Historicism and Amillennialism, Dispensationalism, and Gnosticism, etc., all kinds of .... isms.

Time for a rhyme . Due to what i just read .
Due to all the ISMS we have had many Schisms . let that sink in . Folks need to return to bibles
and learn them for themselves and watch how fast things could be cleared up . ONLY many wont do just that .
NO they cling to some ISM and learn the bible through that kind of lens .

 

[covenantee]

You; is everyone who reads the Words of Jesus.
Jesus did not give His Salvation only to the people of His time. It is for all time, We are the beneficiaries at this time.
Prophecy, of course; only applies to the time God decrees it to take place.

Your attempts to avoid the possibility of yourself actually having to experience forthcoming dramatic events, is foolishness and just leaves you in the dark. 2 Thessalonians 5:1-11

False.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you...
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The grammatical antecedent of them and you is his and the disciples.

It's not your imaginary futurized audience.

Kindergarten English.

Jesus understands grammatical antecedents.

The Holy Spirit understands grammatical antecedents.

The Gospel writers understood grammatical antecedents.

The Bible translators understand grammatical antecedents.

Your refusal to understand grammatical antecedents makes the Word of God of "none effect". (Mark 7:13)

 

[Timtofly]

If you're using pre-70 AD fulfillment as the test of preterism, then you would have to conclude that:
1. The Judean Christians were preterists, because their flight fulfilling Jesus' prediction occurred before 70 AD.
2. Jesus was a preterist, because His prediction and its fulfillment in the Judean Christians' flight occurred before 70 AD.
3. Matthew, Mark, and Luke were preterists, because they bore record of Jesus' prediction. At least one of their Gospels was written before 70 AD.

There's at least a little preterism in everyone.

They all were futurist because it all happened after they were dead. A preterist is one who sees the past as fulfillment.

 

[covenantee]

They all were futurist because it all happened after they were dead. A preterist is one who sees the past as fulfillment.

It all happened before 70 AD.

That makes it all preterist.

 

[Timtofly]

It all happened before 70 AD.

That makes it all preterist.

Israel became an independent sovereign nation ruled over by Jesus as Prince before 70AD?

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

 

[Truth7t7]

When Jesus said every *stone* would come down, he was being quite literal! To interpret something as "spiritual," the context must clearly imply that or infer that. You can't just say, if someone mentions a tree, that it is a "spiritual tree." But if someone said that in a vision they saw a tree planted in the sea, we would know, for sure, that this is metaphorical, or "spiritual."

Jesus' body was indeed a temple of sorts, but not literally a building made of wood and stone. So I suppose you could call his body a "spiritual temple," or a different kind of temple than we might ordinarily think of a temple.

But Jesus literally was God's temple, since God inhabited him. He had come to fulfill the temple of wood and stone that had been intended only to prepare the way for him, God's true, everlasting temple.

But when Jesus came to be that final temple, he had to dispose of the old temple. The covenant governing the temple Law was being broken irretrievably. And Jesus' death made that covenant cease to exist, leaving only him as God's final and everlasting temple.

So when Jesus referred to the passing away of the old temple, he was being quite literal. And the Romans literally destroyed that temple--every stone.

Jesus was speaking of the temple being destroyed "Symbolically"

At his death the veil to the holy place in the temple was torn, the temple was removed in the spiritual, gone, never to be seen again

 

[Truth7t7]

False.

And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you...
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

Matthew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The grammatical antecedent of them and you is his and the disciples.

It's not your imaginary futurized audience.

Kindergarten English.

Jesus understands grammatical antecedents.

The Holy Spirit understands grammatical antecedents.

The Gospel writers understood grammatical antecedents.

The Bible translators understand grammatical antecedents.

Your refusal to understand grammatical antecedents makes the Word of God of "none effect". (Mark 7:13)

Jesus didn't visibly return in the heavens in 70AD as seen below, his second coming is future unfulfilled, 70AD Preterist eschatology is a farce!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[covenantee]

Jesus didn't visibly return in the heavens in 70AD as seen below, his second coming is future unfulfilled, 70AD Preterist eschatology is a farce!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:1-3 is not about the second coming.

Dispensational futurism is a fraud!!

 

[covenantee]

Israel became an independent sovereign nation ruled over by Jesus as Prince before 70AD?

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Israel was not destroyed in 70 AD?

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Davy]

So you know more about the Jews' retaining wall than the Jews (and the Romans) know about the Jews' retaining wall?

The Jews say that it's a retaining wall.

The Jews say that the Romans knew that it was a retaining wall.

Apparently you're the only one who doesn't know that it's a retaining wall.

Retaining wall, schemaing wall, still part of the old temple complex stones.

 

[covenantee]

Retaining wall, schemaing wall, still part of the old temple complex stones.

Don't delay in letting the Jews at the Jewish Viritual Library know that they're liars.

Let me know when they agree with you.

 

[Davy]

Time for a rhyme . Due to what i just read .
Due to all the ISMS we have had many Schisms . let that sink in . Folks need to return to bibles
and learn them for themselves and watch how fast things could be cleared up . ONLY many wont do just that .
NO they cling to some ISM and learn the bible through that kind of lens .

That's because they put their trust in man, instead of directly in God through His Son and His Word. They think they are doing right by listening to men's leaven doctrines, just because the hireling can make it sound so... religious. Well God's Truth has nothing to do with 'religion'. Religion is man's thing in trying to appear holy on the outside, like how the blind Pharisees sought to appear to the people. Jesus said those same blind Pharisees were like whited tombs that appear clean and neat on the outside, but inside are full of dead men's bones.

The following prophecy in particular, is about the latter days we are in now...

Amos 8:9-12
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
KJV


This problem today won't be cleared up until Lord Jesus returns in our near future, and then the following will happen...

Isa 30:19-20
19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: He will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when He shall hear it, He will answer thee.

20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
KJV

 

[Davy]

Don't delay in letting the Jews at the Jewish Viritual Library know that they're liars.

Let me know when they agree with you.

I don't follow the Jew's religion. I follow The Father through His Son Christ Jesus, so thus I am a Christian.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus was speaking of the temple being destroyed "Symbolically"

At his death the veil to the holy place in the temple was torn, the temple was removed in the spiritual, gone, never to be seen again

So you just dismiss the argument I made, and double down, unthinkingly? Yes, the temple was destroyed symbolically and spiritually, but it was also destroyed *literally.* If you can't bring yourself to admit that Herod's temple was *literally* destroyed in 70 AD, there's nothing more I can say.