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And yet all the apostles had faith before their new births with the Spirit.
which has been ignored twice because glassyeyed indoctrination can’t see it.
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Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
There is the faith of the fallen man who, being shown the grace of God, wants to believe, wants to receive, and there is the faith of the Son of God, Who lives in me, and believes, and I share in Him, and have life.
These are two very different kinds of believing.
There is the trust in God formed in my character, the plasticity of the brain, as I choose trust, and as I trust, my brain is re-writing neural pathways, establishing a greater character to trust. I can forget Christ in me, and rely on this trust, partial, fallible, it's a faith that comes from myself.
There is a trust in God which is the life of Christ in me. As Jesus trusts His Father that trust is expressed through my life, in the same way that as Jesus loves others, that love is expressed in my life, and as Jesus is self-controlled, that self control is expressed in my life.
2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
If we trust in Jesus and walk in the Spirit we have complete liberty, we don't have to concern ourselves with ourselves. We need not be self-conscious, because the Spirit is leading our steps. And I'm not saying we are impeccible, rather the Holy Spirit will bring to our awareness such things as we need to know, and otherwise our focus is on others, and on God Himself. That's simply the life of the Spirit, that's what our minds will be filled with.
As we walk in the Spirit (a normal Christian response to trusting in the completeness of our reconciliation in Christ) we see the life of the Spirit, Jesus' life, expressed in ours. We learn by experience, by living it, what Jesus is like, Who He is. And as we live it, neural pathways are written into our "brain plasticity" brains, changing our character, how we think, this is the renewing of the mind.
We do such things as are God's love to others, the very reason we are still on the earth, the "true holiness" of Ephesians 4:24. Living this way cannot help but change us, and it gets easier to live this way, because at least SOME of the corruption of the flesh is being corrected, though it will never be complete as long as we live in these corrupted flesh bodies.
Just the same, we are not our flesh. Sin lives in the flesh, and we do not, we live in Christ. We occupy this world by means of our flesh bodies, but our lives are hid in Christ, where we are seated together.
If we could only SEE the new reality we live in since we've been submerged into Christ!! But our walk is by faith, not sight, and we have His Word, now we must believe it.
If we think we see something in ourselves that disqualifies us from our communion with God, we may stop trusting in Christ for our acceptance, and fall out of that grace.
When that happens the better we've been able to build our character, the more that will help us, as that's helping restore some of the damage to the flesh, and in particular the fleshy brain.
To the extent we've been able to re-write our brains through making better choices, and working them out with better behavior, the easier time it may be for us until we realize, "This isn't that same faith that made life so abundant!!", and seek to return to the walking in the Spirit, where we just don't have to be concerned over such things as a general rule.
Much love!
These are two very different kinds of believing.
There is the trust in God formed in my character, the plasticity of the brain, as I choose trust, and as I trust, my brain is re-writing neural pathways, establishing a greater character to trust. I can forget Christ in me, and rely on this trust, partial, fallible, it's a faith that comes from myself.
There is a trust in God which is the life of Christ in me. As Jesus trusts His Father that trust is expressed through my life, in the same way that as Jesus loves others, that love is expressed in my life, and as Jesus is self-controlled, that self control is expressed in my life.
2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
If we trust in Jesus and walk in the Spirit we have complete liberty, we don't have to concern ourselves with ourselves. We need not be self-conscious, because the Spirit is leading our steps. And I'm not saying we are impeccible, rather the Holy Spirit will bring to our awareness such things as we need to know, and otherwise our focus is on others, and on God Himself. That's simply the life of the Spirit, that's what our minds will be filled with.
As we walk in the Spirit (a normal Christian response to trusting in the completeness of our reconciliation in Christ) we see the life of the Spirit, Jesus' life, expressed in ours. We learn by experience, by living it, what Jesus is like, Who He is. And as we live it, neural pathways are written into our "brain plasticity" brains, changing our character, how we think, this is the renewing of the mind.
We do such things as are God's love to others, the very reason we are still on the earth, the "true holiness" of Ephesians 4:24. Living this way cannot help but change us, and it gets easier to live this way, because at least SOME of the corruption of the flesh is being corrected, though it will never be complete as long as we live in these corrupted flesh bodies.
Just the same, we are not our flesh. Sin lives in the flesh, and we do not, we live in Christ. We occupy this world by means of our flesh bodies, but our lives are hid in Christ, where we are seated together.
If we could only SEE the new reality we live in since we've been submerged into Christ!! But our walk is by faith, not sight, and we have His Word, now we must believe it.
If we think we see something in ourselves that disqualifies us from our communion with God, we may stop trusting in Christ for our acceptance, and fall out of that grace.
When that happens the better we've been able to build our character, the more that will help us, as that's helping restore some of the damage to the flesh, and in particular the fleshy brain.
To the extent we've been able to re-write our brains through making better choices, and working them out with better behavior, the easier time it may be for us until we realize, "This isn't that same faith that made life so abundant!!", and seek to return to the walking in the Spirit, where we just don't have to be concerned over such things as a general rule.
Much love!
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Redemption is not a quasi-theological, zero-sum equation exercise for me. Sorry. I see it as a living, breathing, vital force—Jesus. I rarely see any meaningful mention of Him in any of these ridiculous orthodoxy volleyball games. You're free to cling to the reactionary, partisan 5-point box. I really don't mean to be dismissive but I'll take the Bible as it reads. That's just where I'm at.
You've stated plainly that, in your judgment, I don't understand the issues, and that I definitely believe in Arminianism (which reminds me so much of the current state of American politics that it makes me feel sick to my stomach to hear from a Christian).
So far, what I've heard of the "Calvinist" Gospel is just a mess of disjointed information and denunciation that strikes no chord in my heart. I'll take Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. Hold the 5 points, please.
I can scarcely believe I've even spent as much time as I have considering it—again. I suppose it was for my good, new friend @Johann's sake. I'm so glad to have met him and seen him wrestle this thing to victory in Jesus.
Guitars are the debil! :)
I suspect Jesus enjoys some good guitar music from time to time.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
No, read my lips, "I don't believe in irresistible grace."
That's got absolutely nothing to do with whether God is sovereign. The question is, does he irresistibly cause you to believe or allow free will?
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
ahhhhh yes, another pagan belief of your free will. You think your free will would ever side with God??
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
faith is, in the case of religion, a belief in something unseen.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You think slaves never hoped for a better life? That sinners never hope for forgiveness and freedom? That addicts never long for healing? That those bound by the fetters of sin and addiction never cry out for freedom, forgiveness, and healing?
Did not the blind men plead with Jesus for sight? Do we not, while recognizing our limitations on accomplishing anything without God (for without Me ye can do nothing) at the very least of our own free will desire a better life? To at least seek for the kingdom and His righteousness? To at least hunger and thirst for righteousness? As I said at the beginning, does not the slave with chains on his ankles and wrists, at least will...desire to be free? And if so, then does not God in His grace and mercy supply faith, and lead that slave to Christ?
I think there are nuances to the nature of God and His love, and to the human condition and his spirituality that defy set formulaic assumptions. Regardless the names of the heroes of faith who devise them.
Show me in 1 John of "regeneration before faith.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
Walking in the Light
1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Please bro, show me.
J.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
the vast majority of people have an understanding of “free will” that is pagan and humanistic, not Biblical. The Bible teaches that we have free will in the sense that we have the ability to choose what we want, but its very clear that theres a problem with our “want to”
The Bible teaches that the desires and inclinations of our hearts are only wicked continually, and that we are not free in our sin, but dead in our sin, in bondage to it, and this “free will” you celebrate is one that is imprisoned by sin. Its not like anything the secular world says. People have taken on a humanistic view of humanity, and God, as a result of this.
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