Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[stunnedbygrace]

Faith at least CAN precede regeneration. (At least if by regeneration you mean “receiving the Holy Spirit, which is the new birth.”)
Because Paul asked a man, did you receive the Holy Spirit when you first believed/had faith? The man said, no…I haven’t even heard about this Holy Spirit. So the man had faith before regeneration.

For myself, I think it was somewhere between one and two weeks after I first saw God existed and that what I was reading was true before I received the Spirit. Some men say they did not have such a dramatic moment in time in which they were aware of receiving the Spirit but it was more of a gradual awareness that He was in them. Maybe God does this on purpose, if some babies would be so startled and discomfited that they would run away?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And come to think of it, the Apostles all believed before they received the Spirit. At times Jesus said, why is your faith so little?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So you have to conclude that believing at least CAN come before the new birth by the Spirit of God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And even this man you guys are talking with does believe but does not appear to have received the Spirit of God yet. Of course, he thinks he never will or can receive Gods Spirit, but he does believe God is. So he does have faith.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Repentance might not be what you think it is.

"Repentance is agreeing with God who He is, who you are, what you've done, and what needs to change. It is not change itself, but it is God's strategy for changing YOU."

God that from a Reformed ministry.

I think I like that…:)
I’ve always seen repentance as turning to God.

 

[Brakelite]

He taught that salvation is a process, which is not
the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hi Johann. You and I haven't conversed much, I must confess to being just a tad intimidated by your understanding of scripture, and although I may not entirely agree with some of your points, I do see I think where you are coming from, and I don't fancy myself as being equipped to tackle you on those points. There is one thing however I would like to, hesitatingly, propose in response to your statement above.
I agree with all your scriptures (I believe scripture) that deal with God's immediate response to the sinner's expression of faith, which in his turn is a response to God's calling and conviction. My proposition?
To consider the OT sanctuary services as a type of the gospel. It is often spoken in current Christian circles of the "finished work of the cross", but in a context that suggests immediate irrevocable salvation for those that believe. Now without wanting to get into a OSAS debate, I would like to focus on the role of the priest. Many state we are saved by the blood of the Lamb. That Atonement is made and complete with the death of the sacrifice. I believe there is some confusion among believers on that. Please note the following...

KJV Exodus 29:36-37
36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy

KJV Exodus 29:37
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy

KJV Exodus 32:30
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin

KJV Leviticus 4:20
20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

KJV Leviticus 4:35
35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him

Now I could cite dozens more along the same lines. Do you notice that while the blood of the offering is essential to the process, it is the priest himself who actually makes the Atonement.
At Calvary, outside the gate of the city, sacrifice was made. Just as in the OT type, the sacrifice was offered outside the Tabernacle. But this raises a very important question. Where is the priest who ministered the blood in the sanctuary? When did Jesus become our High Priest that He could make Atonement for us?
.

.

.

.

...

 

[Lambano]

gracious in what way?? I have never understood why everyone always seems to say God is gracious, or God shows mercy.
Is God just?? Yes!
Is God fair?? Yes!
Is God honest?? Yes.
Are we all sinners?? Yes!
So if God is just and fair, and we are all sinners, please explain how you think seeing God on judgement day is gonna be some wonderful Woodstock event, when in reality, it will be petrifying, terrifying, and just plain scary.

we each will have to stand in front of Him and explain ourselves for every single word, deed, and thought. I cant imagine how terrible that is going to be. Please explain why that sounds like a joyous occasion. And then, as if that isnt bad enough, the angels are gonna separate us, good from bad, and us bad ones get to be thrown into eternal torment. I do not see any of that as being cause for celebration.

Were I a teacher, I'd give out homework assignments. Your homework assignment would be to read the Gospels (start with Luke) and make notes in a journal of when Jesus showed forgiveness and mercy and compassion and love to "the least, the last, and the lost".

Hey man. Sola Scriptura.

 

[Lambano]

And even this man you guys are talking with does believe but does not appear to have received the Spirit of God yet. Of course, he thinks he never will or can receive Gods Spirit, but he does believe God is. So he does have faith.

The seed is there. But the ground is rocky and choked with one of the nastiest, thorniest, most poisonous, and most persistent weeds that ever grew.

It doesn't help that over the years, somebody has been spreading the kind of fertilizer these types of weeds feed on.

Praying the Master Gardener does some work in this garden.

 

[reformed1689]

It means also that his will is in bondage
to sin in such a fashion that he is unable to believe the gospel.
Further, it means that he must therefore be born again before
he can believe...this is unbiblical

Born again and conversion are not the same thing.

 

[PinSeeker]

PinSeeker said: "Well... you don't, LifelongSinner, think your repentance is perfect, right? I hope not, and apparently she's quite aware of that fact of herself, too, that her repentance ~ everybody's ~ is imperfect. It is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but true: we all need to repent of our repentance. One day, though ~ one great Day ~ that will no longer be the case. Come quickly, Lord Jesus. Right?"
my first response to my own repentance can be found in the comment before hers. Obviously, no my repentance wasnt even repentance as far as im concerned.

That's... not any kind of real answer to my question. We can leave it as is and I'm fine with that, but... do you want to try again?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Godly sorrow leads to true repentance. True repentance leads to lasting change.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'd just add (and maybe you agree) that true repentance is a work of the Spirit in man; we cannot do it in and of ourselves.

Grace and peace!

 

[Johann]

Hi Johann. You and I haven't conversed much, I must confess to being just a tad intimidated by your understanding of scripture, and although I may not entirely agree with some of your points, I do see I think where you are coming from, and I don't fancy myself as being equipped to tackle you on those points. There is one thing however I would like to, hesitatingly, propose in response to your statement above.
I agree with all your scriptures (I believe scripture) that deal with God's immediate response to the sinner's expression of faith, which in his turn is a response to God's calling and conviction. My proposition?
To consider the OT sanctuary services as a type of the gospel. It is often spoken in current Christian circles of the "finished work of the cross", but in a context that suggests immediate irrevocable salvation for those that believe. Now without wanting to get into a OSAS debate, I would like to focus on the role of the priest. Many state we are saved by the blood of the Lamb. That Atonement is made and complete with the death of the sacrifice. I believe there is some confusion among believers on that. Please note the following...

KJV Exodus 29:36-37
36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy

KJV Exodus 29:37
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy

KJV Exodus 32:30
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin

KJV Leviticus 4:20
20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

KJV Leviticus 4:35
35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him

Now I could cite dozens more along the same lines. Do you notice that while the blood of the offering is essential to the process, it is the priest himself who actually makes the Atonement.
At Calvary, outside the gate of the city, sacrifice was made. Just as in the OT type, the sacrifice was offered outside the Tabernacle. But this raises a very important question. Where is the priest who ministered the blood in the sanctuary? When did Jesus become our High Priest that He could make Atonement for us?
.

.

.

.

...

No need to feel intimidated
J.

 

[Truman]

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'd just add (and maybe you agree) that true repentance is a work of the Spirit in man; we cannot do it in and of ourselves.

Grace and peace!

I repent when I make a 180% turn back to God by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[PinSeeker]

I repent when I make a 180% turn back to God by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely. So, we have great reason to pray often that God would grant us true, deep, lasting repentance. I do, and maybe you do also.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

That's... not any kind of real answer to my question. We can leave it as is and I'm fine with that, but... do you want to try again?

Grace and peace to you.

not sure what else you were looking for, but here is the original response i made;
“already did that. Didnt work. If God doesnt grant you repentance, then your attempt wont be genuine. No matter how many times i have tried repenting, i still commit the exact same sins over and over. If you do that, then your repentance is not genuine. I dont feel bad about my biggest struggles, i actually give in to them daily, and contently.”

 

[Johann]

not sure what else you were looking for, but here is the original response i made;
“already did that. Didnt work. If God doesnt grant you repentance, then your attempt wont be genuine. No matter how many times i have tried repenting, i still commit the exact same sins over and over. If you do that, then your repentance is not genuine. I dont feel bad about my biggest struggles, i actually give in to them daily, and contently.”

Not all have faith, as it stands written
J.

 

[Johann]

not sure what else you were looking for, but here is the original response i made;
“already did that. Didnt work. If God doesnt grant you repentance, then your attempt wont be genuine. No matter how many times i have tried repenting, i still commit the exact same sins over and over. If you do that, then your repentance is not genuine. I dont feel bad about my biggest struggles, i actually give in to them daily, and contently.”

 

[Johann]

Ol' Mike winger...suggest you listen carefully...as for your open confession that you live in a state of
never-ending sinning...indicative that you are not reborn nor have any desire to get born from above.
J.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Ol' Mike winger...suggest you listen carefully...as for your open confession that you live in a state of
never-ending sinning...indicative that you are not reborn nor have any desire to get born from above.
J.

ole mike winger is a charismatic, LOL.
you need to listen to better pastors. Heres RC Sproul explaining it to you truthfully;

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is that why you are praying?
To find out if you are part of the elect or no?

No, I pray because I am part of the elect!