Fed up with American Christian churches

[Angelina]

Great thread @kittehsareinsane but it's something that is a situation not just limited the American churches. It's right across the western world and I've been thinking about this a lot lately and wondering if it's time for us as a body of believers to go back to our roots. Consider, the Synogues were a place where the Jewish believers would congregate and worship God the Father, when gentile believers became a reality through Christ, those believers did not join with the Jews for many reasons as you know. They had to create a whole new way of congregating first in their homes and then later on, in a church setting. I personally believe that the churches today, have changed dramatically from the days of the apostles and are more centered towards a business module rather then a place of fellowship, worship and being in the presence of a holy God. I can think of a number of times where new believers have left because they are not catered to unless they join a home group. Why not go back to that module then? It worked back in the day and it's still working now :) JM2c

 

[Truman]

When I was with the Vineyard church, it was a collection of home groups that met together weekly. Individually and corporately. Real friendships and ministry took place in the house groups. I don't feel a need to go back to the Vineyard, but a home group is, in my view, the way to go. You become part of a tight-knit family.

 

[Nancy]

When I compare the new church to the modern church, the modern church is NOTHING like the new church. With the new church fellowship occurred both at church AND in real life, everyone was included, and the new church made sure nobody went without.

With the modern church, I hear incessantly 'we love and accept everyone', but in reality, this isn't true because the church caters to extroverts, marrieds raising families, and neurotypicals (those who don't have Asperger's syndrome and/or autism). If you don't fall under one or all of the aforementioned three categories you're forgotten. Fellowship is relegated to church on Sunday and small groups, but I don't see it carrying over into real life.

I am tired of the rudeness, the insensitivity, the selfishness, and being so focused on their perspective, they don't even try to understand the other person's viewpoint. I am also very tired of the go-to in-regards to helping someone ALWAYS being encouragement. I don't have an issue with encouragement in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with it, however it's not always the solution, nor is it always the appropriate thing to do depending upon what the situation is. There's nothing wrong with encouragement, there is however a huge problem with being so fixated on positivity and encouragement that the church basically refuses to talk about anything difficult/serious/'heavy' which isn't healthy and it's definitely NOT biblical to do this.



I am tired of Christians saying 'we love and care about you' but if you don't act and think like they want/think you should act and/or are difficult to love, you're basically rejected. I am also tired of Christians refusing to serve if it means being inconvenienced and/or it makes them feel uncomfortable.


When I went to church, I expected to receive support, to be able to confide in the church, to receive practical help beyond just encouragement and unsolicited advice. Instead, I'm forgotten, and have basically given up hope that I'll actually find a church where I'm truly included, because I'm not a neurotypical, not an extrovert and am an older single. Yes, I'm very angry with the church but t's for the very reasons mentioned above, but I have been hurt and forgotten by the church, and this didn't happen instantaneously, I have dealt with this with basically every church I have ever been to.

I am tired of being misunderstood incessantly; I expect this from the secular world. However I didn't expect this type of treatment from the church, which just exacerbates the pain. I don't expect them to completely understand me when they don't have Asperger's syndrome (which I do), however I am not asking them to completely understand me, I'm asking they make the effort to try to understand me, and I don't even see that much occurring.

Oh brother, took the words out of my mouth, I am not an aspy but do have some issues, and also fall through the cracks. the "church" today simply caters to the nuclear family and if single, no kids or spouse, and being 64 years old...I am always on my own.
We need to live The 2nd Chapter of Acts!
God bless and keep you bro, and I pray He will lift your spirits.

 

[amadeus]

um i think bl was being facetious :)
ironic? sarcastic

Even so..! Who can hear [read] what we are saying?

 

[Jim B]

Great thread @kittehsareinsane but it's something that is a situation not just limited the American churches. It's right across the western world and I've been thinking about this a lot lately and wondering if it's time for us as a body of believers to go back to our roots. Consider, the Synogues were a place where the Jewish believers would congregate and worship God the Father, when gentile believers became a reality through Christ, those believers did not join with the Jews for many reasons as you know. They had to create a whole new way of congregating first in their homes and then later on, in a church setting. I personally believe that the churches today, have changed dramatically from the days of the apostles and are more centered towards a business module rather then a place of fellowship, worship and being in the presence of a holy God. I can think of a number of times where new believers have left because they are not catered to unless they join a home group. Why not go back to that module then? It worked back in the day and it's still working now :) JM2c

Saying that Gentiles did not join with the Jews is not correct. Read Romans and Galatians.

 

[Angelina]

@Jim B Please show me Chapter and verse as I am working right now. Thank you

 

[Jim B]

@Jim B Please show me Chapter and verse as I am working right now. Thank you

I can't give you any single verse. Paul's letter to the Romans is clearly addressed to both Jewish and Gentile believers. Galatians clearly shows the difference.

As a forum admin I'm sure that you know this.

 

[Angelina]

No...just because I am an admin, does not mean I have memorized every verse in the bible. Do you?

I'm going to accept what you are saying but it still doesn't change the rest of the things that I have said, Mr Right!

 

[Brakelite]

wondering if it's time for us as a body of believers to go back to our roots. Consider, the Synogues were a place where the Jewish believers would congregate and worship God the Father, when gentile believers became a reality through Christ, those believers did not join with the Jews

I agree with the theme of your post, that we need to get back to our roots, but disagree with you on what those roots are. The Gentile believers did verily join with the Jews in the synagogues, as testified by the apostles. However, you are correct that in due course of time, and for several reasons, some Christians did distance themselves from the Jews, particularly after 70ad and the ensuing hatred toward Jewry from Rome. Jews were relentlessly persecuted from that time, and the Christians were not to enthusiastic about being caught up in the melee. So yes, they, or at least some, left the synagogues and later even discarded the Sabbath in favor of the Roman civil legislated Sunday, eventually adopting Sunday as it's own in the 4th century. But the true roots of Christianity is bound up in the Sabbath. Discarding it in favor of tradition was a mistake.

 

[Truman]

When I compare the new church to the modern church, the modern church is NOTHING like the new church. With the new church fellowship occurred both at church AND in real life, everyone was included, and the new church made sure nobody went without.

With the modern church, I hear incessantly 'we love and accept everyone', but in reality, this isn't true because the church caters to extroverts, marrieds raising families, and neurotypicals (those who don't have Asperger's syndrome and/or autism). If you don't fall under one or all of the aforementioned three categories you're forgotten. Fellowship is relegated to church on Sunday and small groups, but I don't see it carrying over into real life.

I am tired of the rudeness, the insensitivity, the selfishness, and being so focused on their perspective, they don't even try to understand the other person's viewpoint. I am also very tired of the go-to in-regards to helping someone ALWAYS being encouragement. I don't have an issue with encouragement in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with it, however it's not always the solution, nor is it always the appropriate thing to do depending upon what the situation is. There's nothing wrong with encouragement, there is however a huge problem with being so fixated on positivity and encouragement that the church basically refuses to talk about anything difficult/serious/'heavy' which isn't healthy and it's definitely NOT biblical to do this.



I am tired of Christians saying 'we love and care about you' but if you don't act and think like they want/think you should act and/or are difficult to love, you're basically rejected. I am also tired of Christians refusing to serve if it means being inconvenienced and/or it makes them feel uncomfortable.


When I went to church, I expected to receive support, to be able to confide in the church, to receive practical help beyond just encouragement and unsolicited advice. Instead, I'm forgotten, and have basically given up hope that I'll actually find a church where I'm truly included, because I'm not a neurotypical, not an extrovert and am an older single. Yes, I'm very angry with the church but t's for the very reasons mentioned above, but I have been hurt and forgotten by the church, and this didn't happen instantaneously, I have dealt with this with basically every church I have ever been to.

I am tired of being misunderstood incessantly; I expect this from the secular world. However I didn't expect this type of treatment from the church, which just exacerbates the pain. I don't expect them to completely understand me when they don't have Asperger's syndrome (which I do), however I am not asking them to completely understand me, I'm asking they make the effort to try to understand me, and I don't even see that much occurring.

You seem to have a pretty good grasp on the situation. Unfortunately.
I found out about things...seems you have, too!
Welcome to Christianity Board.

 

[Jim B]

No...just because I am an admin, does not mean I have memorized every verse in the bible. Do you?

I'm going to accept what you are saying but it still doesn't change the rest of the things that I have said, Mr Right!

So how is your defensive day going? I merely stated that Jews and Gentiles were members of the same churches. Why does that set you off?

 

[lforrest]

Perhaps smaller churches are the answer, I don't know. Introverted personalities tend to make a few good friends but struggle in large settings like a congregation.

If you take out the social aspects and focused entirely on worshiping God would anyone go to church? Since we can pray, praise, and worship on our own wouldn't congregating seem like it is more trouble than it is worth if there was no social aspect to church?

So I believe there needs to be a social aspect of some sort. But agree church shouldn't be about entertainment.

 

[Lambano]

Perhaps smaller churches are the answer, I don't know. Introverted personalities tend to make a few good friends but struggle in large settings like a congregation.

I’ve found that smaller groups like Bible studies and the like are good for engaging and integrating introverted folks - like me.

 

[Jim B]

When I led the Bible study in my church I asked the attendees what the portion of the Bible that was being studied meant to them. I found this to be much more productive than my explaining to them what the Bible meant (to me, of course). People got engaged, even introverts, regardless of their history in Christ.

 

[Angelina]

So how is your defensive day going? I merely stated that Jews and Gentiles were members of the same churches. Why does that set you off?

Not enough sleep. ;)

Perhaps smaller churches are the answer, I don't know. Introverted personalities tend to make a few good friends but struggle in large settings like a congregation.

If you take out the social aspects and focused entirely on worshiping God would anyone go to church? Since we can pray, praise, and worship on our own wouldn't congregating seem like it is more trouble than it is worth if there was no social aspect to church?

So I believe there needs to be a social aspect of some sort. But agree church shouldn't be about entertainment.

1. If you think about what a basic sunday service comprises of we have -
2. the welcome from the Pastor or a leader,
3. the church notices,
4. the taking up of the offering,
5. the communion,
6. the Music team begins with some Praise and worship,
7. the Pastor preaches either on a specific study they are doing or on something he has been inspired by during the week.Some times they may have a guest speaker.

8. After that we may have more worship and then some closing words or prayers.

9. Sometimes there may be an item from the childrens church or youth group and/or testimonies during the service. After the preaching, there may also be an altar call for healing or other. Depending on the denomination.

Perhaps there may be a shared lunch of coffee afterwards, depending on the type of denomination.

This does not leave much room for real fellowship with the Pastor or others in the congregation. Most take off because they have things to do at home or with family etc. Or perhaps they are tired from getting their family up and organised in time for the service. Others are busy cleaning up or pulling down packing up instruments and chairs etc[if appropriate]

It appears to me that anyone who would like to get to know members on this superficial level would have to go there every Sunday for months and still not know anyone. However, a home group would give any individual the opportunity to ask some questions which they would not have the chance to do in a church environment. They would be able to get to know other members, they would be able to open up about their personal struggles and pray together as a smaller group. They would be able to study the word together and the maturer believers would be able to share how they dealt with specific situations. They would be able to ask questions without feeling stupid. They would be able to support each other and their physical needs if necessary. Some folk don't like their personal life splattered all over the church.

This environment gives a new member or any member as a matter of fact, the opportuntiy to feel like they are a part of a nucleus family......My HG leader use to say that anything that is discussesd in this HG is not to be discussed outside of it. That gives members the ability to share their struggles and needs with others with confidence. Hebrews 10:25

 

[Jim B]

Not enough sleep. ;)



1. If you think about what a basic sunday service comprises of we have -
2. the welcome from the Pastor or a leader,
3. the church notices,
4. the taking up of the offering,
5. the communion,
6. the Music team begins with some Praise and worship,
7. the Pastor preaches either on a specific study they are doing or on something he has been inspired by during the week.Some times they may have a guest speaker.

8. After that we may have more worship and then some closing words or prayers.

9. Sometimes there may be an item from the childrens church or youth group and/or testimonies during the service. After the preaching, there may also be an altar call for healing or other. Depending on the denomination.

Perhaps there may be a shared lunch of coffee afterwards, depending on the type of denomination.

This does not leave much room for real fellowship with the Pastor or others in the congregation. Most take off because they have things to do at home or with family etc. Or perhaps they are tired from getting their family up and organised in time for the service. Others are busy cleaning up or pulling down packing up instruments and chairs etc[if appropriate]

It appears to me that anyone who would like to get to know members on this superficial level would have to go there every Sunday for months and still not know anyone. However, a home group would give any individual the opportunity to ask some questions which they would not have the chance to do in a church environment. They would be able to get to know other members, they would be able to open up about their personal struggles and pray together as a smaller group. They would be able to study the word together and the maturer believers would be able to share how they dealt with specific situations. They would be able to ask questions without feeling stupid. They would be able to support each other and their physical needs if necessary. Some folk don't like their personal life splattered all over the church.

This environment gives a new member or any member as a matter of fact, the opportuntiy to feel like they are a part of a nucleus family......My HG leader use to say that anything that is discussesd in this HG is not to be discussed outside of it. That gives members the ability to share their struggles and needs with others with confidence. Hebrews 10:25

This is a very interesting post! I agree entirely with what you've written.

Since the pandemic began I have stopped attending church. I was a church elder prior to that but that is another story, as is my age (78) and that basically I am an introvert. By that I mean that I have a few close friends with whom I socialize but have no need to be "social" beyond that.

However, the point is that I feel closer to the Lord when I'm not attending church! I spend some time each day (averaging about an hour or two) reading the Bible, and spend time outside soaking in God's glory (Romans 1:18-20, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness, because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse." NET).

Going to church is a ritualized activity that I don't need. I identify a lot more with Jesus, when He was on earth, and His disciples and the lives He/they led. He went from town to town associating with rural people, teaching them about the realities of God and healing some of them. He spoke to thousands who were sitting on hillsides and lake shores and spent relatively little time in synagogues. He would go to Jerusalem for feasts but even as a boy spent time discussing God's word outside of the synagogue. As is clear, He did not spend much time at the Jerusalem temple, because He considered it to be a corrupt institution.

From the day that I was saved -- healed in the hospital by Jesus -- I have considered a personal, intimate relationship with the Lord to be the bedrock of my spiritual life. I do not need to go to a special building to listen to ...

2. the welcome from the Pastor or a leader (which was me on occasion)
3. the church notices,
4. the taking up of the offering (which was me on occasion)
5. the communion (which was me on occasion -- I even baked the communion bread)
6. the Music team begins with some Praise and worship (which was me on occasion)
7. the Pastor preaches either on a specific study they are doing or on something he has been inspired by during the week. Some times they may have a guest speaker. ((which was me on occasion)
8. After that we may have more worship and then some closing words or prayers.

Not listed here is the weekly Bible study, which I often led and enjoyed more than the above.

These things are not bad in and of themselves, but they are a poor substitute for a living, dynamic relationship with God that I enjoy (understatement) on a constant basis daily. In other words, I am not "religious" and have no desire to be.

 

[farouk]

I’ve found that smaller groups like Bible studies and the like are good for engaging and integrating introverted folks - like me.

@Lambano A small Bible study group can be good, indeed....

 

[Lambano]

@Lambano A small Bible study group can be good, indeed....

True, but you can have small prayer groups, work groups, evangelism groups, etc.

 

[farouk]

True, but you can have small prayer groups, work groups, evangelism groups, etc.

The work of testimony must and will go on........

 

[theefaith]

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal) All men!

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people. All men!

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world. All men!

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. All men!

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. All men!

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal) All men!

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

Only Jesus Christ has authority to found the church on Peter and the apostles! Matt 16:18-19 Matt 18:18
Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

All others are heretical sects the tradition of men!

Christ is king and established a kingdom!

Obedience to the apostles who have the jurisdictional authority to govern the church and administer the kingdom is obedience to Christ!

Kingdom

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

the holy Catholic Church

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.