Why is God So Mean?

[Duckybill]

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. (John 5:39)

The scriptures do not testify of themselves, but of Christ. They point to him.

It is Him we must follow.

Yes, by the written NT.

 

[Prentis]

By faith we enter in, by the Spirit we move forward.

 

[Duckybill]

By faith we enter in, by the Spirit we move forward.

If you want to be saved you will follow and obey His written Word, the NT.

 

[Prentis]

May God bless you, Duckybill :)

 

[Duckybill]

May God bless you, Duckybill :)

Thank you, and you!

 

[Groundzero]

Yet we have so many bibles, and the world is still going astray.

Don't get me wrong, the Bible is useful when the Spirit is the one yielding it.

But what we NEED is the living word. The life of Christ in us HERE and NOW. The first church did not have the new testament, only the old. In theory, if scripture is what makes the difference, they should of been less effective then we are. But they turned the world over. They changed everything. What was it? Christ in them!

We need the life of Jesus Christ. And his cross that the life may flow freely.

Not quite. The different religions take a few verses. If you take the whole Bible, you CANNOT get a different view!

A quick example:

The Trinity can be proven using a few verses. However, it is contradicted, first by the ONE God statements, and also by the fact that the Son is clearly not equal with the Father, making Jesus less than God. The Trinity accounts for MOST, but not ALL!

The view where Jesus is not God, explains how the Son is not equal with the Father, and is based on Scripture as well. It is contradicted however, but statements about Jesus that make it obvious that he is MORE than just a man!

The Biblical view? There is ONE God, manifest in flesh. The humanity of that man who was born to Mary was called the Son. The Son didn't have a separate spirit inside him. The Son had the Spirit of the Father of Eternity. This view can account for all Scriptures without contradiction.

Btw, if anyone wants to debate the above points, do it in the proper forums. There are several of them. :)

Oh, forgot to mention, depends what doctrine you are looking at as well. There are the basic foundational doctrines such as those about God, etc, and the un-essential doctrines which are not necessary for salvation, such as end time stuff, etc. If you look at the whole Scripture, you cannot get a different view concerning the major doctrines.

As to the Spirit, yes, it is essential. Without the Spirit opening people's eyes, they cannot see and understand Scripture.

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[Groundzero]

Ah, it could sound like that, but it's not what I'm saying.

So God used Paul and Peter (and many others) to speak the word of God. What they spoke, we have it in the Bible. These are, yes, the commandments of the Lord, as they are his word.

Only did God just stop using people like Paul and Peter to speak his word, to add more insight and revelation from the Lord? Or is God still actively revealing his heart and will?

The word is very usefull, but only when God uses it to reveal his heart and his truth. And he can ALSO do that through someone who, like Paul was, is no longer living his own life, but Christ lives through him.

Ok, i think that revelation in sense of a new dispensation is over. What we have to go by now is the Scripture. God gave the Law to the Israelites, and that was it. He didn't go on 'revealing' more truths! Jesus ushered in a new dispensation. The NT contains the teachings. Yes, we still get guidance, but NO, we do not get 'new' revelations.

The problem everyone is having is that they replace Jesus with a book...

So when it says, "Thy Word is a lamp unto thy Feet" instead of understanding that means, "Jesus who is the Word of God is our Light" they read it as, "A book is our light"

another example is that I was talking to a pastor's daughter and I was telling her that after reading the testimonies to Jesus for myself I had came to understand that the Word of God isn't a book... that the Word of God is Jesus... she of course became very upset and defensive as I was challenging her families religion that they make money off... so I asked her a question, "Where John says that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God do you think that means in the beginning the bible was spinning around in outer space?" to which she replied, "Yes"... I was beginning to see how truly false what I had been taught was.

Then things in the testimonies to God's Word Jesus started to really jump out at me... how on the mount of transfiguration the disciples were rebuked by the Father for putting Moses and Elijah on the same level as Jesus... and how when the Father rebuked the disciples He said, "This is my beloved Son hear Him" and how Moses and Elijah were gone... if God's Word was the bible that he wanted us to hear... God would have said, "Yes put Moses and Elijah and Jesus all into one book and then know me through reading it" But He didn't say that, He said, "This is my beloved Son hear Him" If we can't hear Him it's because He's not in us, and if He's not in us it's because we're not His. And the argument that, "How can you know whether it's really Jesus without a book... well if you don't know Jesus well enough to know whether it's Him or not without a book that's just proof that you don't know Him at all"

People need to replace believing God's Word is a book with God's Word is Jesus and then all of a sudden they'll actually understand what they're reading...

With the most important foundational understanding that God's Word in us isn't a memorized book... He is the Living Christ... Jesus

As Prentis understands... we don't need more bible scholars... we need more temples filled with Jesus... we are the temple of God... everyone's looking for some antichrist to fill some building in Israel... instead of realizing the abomination that causes desolation isn't worried about taking the place in a temple built with hands... He wants to take the place that belongs to God in the temple built without hands... who we are... so quit thinking memorizing scriptures is obtaining the Word of God... as Fire7 pointed out many have scriptures memorized who reject Jesus... having the Word of God in us... Is Christ in us... there is no other Living Word but Him. And When Christ is living in us... God's Word is living in us... and at that moment the Father is in the rightful place in His temple... who we are.

Hmmm. I wonder what would have happened if the early Christian reformers decided that they didn't need the Bible. They just needed Jesus to show them around! Perhaps Jesus wants us to be led by his Word!

Now I don't profess to be a great understander of Hebrew or Greek. I do beg to differ about the 'Word'. You obviously are making a real big issue over this. The word 'Word' comes from the Greek word, 'logos.' This word means 'expression' or 'speech'.

What about Scripture? I suppose that in some way is a warped definition of Jesus?

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[FHII]

Aspen's relies:

FHII: 1. I have a Bible which shows the words spoken by Jesus in red ink. I'm sure you have one of those types of Bibles or at least have seen one. My question is, do you believe that those red letters were back in 30 AD or around that time really words that Jesus spoke?

Apsen: No.

FHII: 2. If the answer is yes, why wouldn't we take that seriously and believe it is something that should be considered "in stone" and be central to our doctrine? If the answer is no, then you can stop reading... I wish you the best in life but I disagree and I won't have a discussion about Christianity with you. No hard feelings, but there is just too much difference for us to have a discussion.

Aspen: Ok wait! I am all prepared to answer your questions so, no offense, I would like to continue. The red ink used in the NT was started in the KJV in 1611. If you are not referring to the actual ink and instead, to the words; yes, Jesus spoke the Aramaic words associated with the English translation and I believe they are accurate enough.

Understanding that the scholars hired by King James translated the Bible from Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic, I take it that the answer to the first question is yes. All indications suggest Jesus didn't speak English.

FHII: 3. In the OT, when you see the words "Thus saith the Lord", do you believe that God himself spoke to those prophets, and that they are the words of God? If yes or no... again read number two.

Aspen: I believe the prophets properly used the phrase, 'thus saith the Lord' before phrases that they received from God. I believe the inspirations they received got an accurate message across. I also believe that they wrote the correct message down from their point of view. For example, if the Egyptians were experiencing a drought - they would credit it to God (rightly so) and they may give a reason - the sinfulness of the Egyptians. I believe the message gives us an accurate picture of God's omnipotence and how the prophet thought about the Egyptians and themselves. I do not believe God gave the prophets word for word dictation. Instead, He was able to get His message across despite the presence of prejudice, cultural aspects, nationalism, and perspective of the prophet. This what really separates the Bible from Hindu texts or other Middle Eastern texts - it is not esoteric - God used people to talk to people.

This answer is a bit confusing. When the prophets used the phrase "Thus saith the Lord..." Did they quote the Lord directly and word for word? Regardless of what your answer is, did the Lord stick by it? I use the phrase "Thus saith the Lord", but lets not stay limited to that phrase. Let's go to Genesis 6. If I remember correctly you are either not sure or don't believe God destroyed all living flesh except those that were on the ark.

God gave Noah some pretty specific details on how to build that ark.... Do you believe that a man named Noah built the ark and by those demensions? Do you believe that the conversation took place and the minute details are accurate? I am not really asking these particular questions for an answer, but to make my point. We know the demensions of the ark and that God killed everything on the face of the earth because of ONE account. The book of Genesis? Without it, how do you know unless you decide Noah was really Gilgamesh?


FHII: If you answer no to any of these questions, we can all save ourselves a lot of time and energy. I believe in faith that they were and I imagine I'm just as hard headed and set in my beliefs as you are.

Aspen: I am not here to persuade you.

Really? Then you are wasting your time! Who are you here to persuade? God? :) Look, I know it is not important to persuade me. I think I understand why you made that statement. However, they were my questions and I assume you were answering them or me to read. Thus, you are trying to persuade me. I was the one that asked them, and I assume you didn't answer them for God to read. See my point?

Again, if you don't believe the Bible is exact and they contain sentances and phrases, then we aren't going to come to an agreement. We can amicably end the conversation as it would be fruitless to continue.


7. Without the Bible, what else do you have to be sure you have the true message of God concerning you or anything else?

The Church - Matt 16:18. I also am a strong believer in prayer, without new revelation. Finally, the church assembled the Bible - it came first.
Who's Church? Yours? Mine? That isn't meant to be a smart alect response. See, Paul, Peter, James, the Apostles started Churches, wrote letters, preached and their sermons and epistles became the Bible. You aren't a member of their congregation; and the best you can do is take the epistles written to them and apply it to yourself, and your congregation can apply them. This whole point about the church coming before the NT is a moot point because they DID assemble the Bible. That is what we have now. They didn't have the written word, but were hearing and living it moment by moment. We now have it. What are you trying to say by that statement? "The old Church didn't have the NT so we don't need it either?"

Paul's Chuch was lacking (all of them). Paul set them up, and that was a pretty good start. He kept in contact which was also good. How were they lacking? They didn't have Peter's words of wisdom given to him by God. Peter's Church was also lacking in that they didn't have Paul. This is my opinion, but at that given time they probably couldn't have handled it. There was contention between Paul and Peter, as well as the other apostles.

Paul said that he knew in part, but one day something perfect would come and that which was in part would be done away with. Again, my opinion is that when the Bible came around, we had the full message of the gospel. We now have all the schoolmaster of the OT as well as the NT. What else is there that contain the Words of God with 100% assurance?

 

[SaturdayPastor]

Isn't fire a homosexual? So Aspen, why do you have so many unChristian friends?
"A friend of the world is the enemy of God."

This was a joke...right?

Did Jesus hang out with the religous or did He go right to the heart of the broken? Likewise, our "friends" are the non-believers...who should Aspen be friends with? And on another level OP is obviously getting horrible theology and desperately needs real answers... For the record, your Bible quote is COMPLETELY out of phase and context.

Since you brought up James 4:4 and used it falsely, I will show the rest of the chapter - which you obviously haven't read or you would be trembling and in fear right now:

James 4:11-12
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[a] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

Matthew 5:14
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

====================================

Fire-
Living a homosexual lifestyle is a sin. Being tempted is not a sin - giving in to the temptation is the sin.

As a straight man, I am tempted almost every minute of every day to sin with women...I wish it wasn't true but it is. I am completely broken and my thoughts are sometimes not what I want them to be. I have to fight non-stop to avoid the sin that I so desire. Your battle is EXACTLY the same - you are tempted by your desire. Yes, God allowed the desire to exist within you - He is permisive of ALL our sin or it wouldn't be here (Job 1 shows this clearly). Regardless, God said we have to fight against the sin within us and He sent His Son, Jesus, to cover our sins when we fail. But...that is not the end of the story: YOU MUST MAKE AN EFFORT!

If we never even attempt to resist the sin that plagues us, we are the people in Galatians 5:19-21 (for the record, that comprehensive list describe every human on the planet). It is in our desire to love Jesus (demonstrated by our resistance) that we find salvation:

Galatians 5:19-23
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

John 14:15
If you love me, keep my commands.

I am saddened to know that you have such a tough burden. Know that you are not the only one and this place is brutal for all of us. SERIOUSLY consider different pastors because the ones you are listening to are not helping you with your burden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06vxJ__sFTg

 

[FHII]

Yet we have so many bibles, and the world is still going astray.

Don't get me wrong, the Bible is useful when the Spirit is the one yielding it.

But what we NEED is the living word. The life of Christ in us HERE and NOW. The first church did not have the new testament, only the old. In theory, if scripture is what makes the difference, they should of been less effective then we are. But they turned the world over. They changed everything. What was it? Christ in them!

We need the life of Jesus Christ. And his cross that the life may flow freely.

Really Prentis? How many Bibles to you think we have? We have only ONE! Sure, we have many different versions... We have the KJV, the NKJV, the ASV, the NIV.... But we still have only one Bible. Is the world going astray because of all those versions? All of them say the world was going to go astray, don't they?

Again, here's the notion that the Church of the NT didn't have a NT. They somehow are better off than we are today? Paul, one of the Church leaders at the time said in 1 Cor 13:9-12: "For we know in part and prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I though as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Are we greater than Paul? No, but we do have more than he had. We have his epistles as well as Peter's and the rest. Yes they turned the world upside down and it established Christianity. Now, we have it. This whole notion that the Church in the first century was better off or in as good shape as the Church of today (the True Church) is not true. Yes, they were at one time less effective! They had to and did change that. Paul wrote letters containing doctrines and established the Church (as did Peter and the rest). We are the fortunate ones to have what they established. Not better or worse, but certainly we have more knowledge in that we have the completed Bible. They turned the world over by writing the Bible! We don't have to do it again.

I agree we have to have the living word in us. The Bible is the one thing that guides us to it.

 

[FHII]

I don't want to intrude on the argument because I'm not qualified to really argue, being that I've never read the whole bible.

But here is something I do know: There have been MANY people who have read the entire bible from the front cover to the map, several times over, and still are not christians. As a matter of fact, some of them became atheists because of reading the whole bible......

The point I'm making is that just because someone reads and believes the entire bible does not mean that they will all of a sudden be on one accord with others who have read and believe the entire bible. This goes to show that knowing and believing the bible word for word is not the most important thing a person can do. If that were the case, everyone who ever read the bible would be saved. There is obviously something more. And if you go back and actually listen to the videos I posted on page 1, you will understand why I personally don't believe the bible is 100% accurate. And this is what has been the source of controversy and confusion for so long. Do you really think that if everything in the bible was accurate and literal that there would be all of this controversy?

Fire-7,

I cannot blame a man for not having read the whole Bible. I wouldn't even object to him (or her) making comments about the Bible as they are reading it. However, it is only reasonable to hold the comments and conclusions such a person makes as incomplete until they do such.

You stated that there are many people who have read the Bible who aren't Christian. Sure, but there are many Christians who have read the Bible and know quite a bit more about Christ as a result. Do they know more than a Christian who hasn't read the whole Bible? Well, actually yes they do! That is not to say someone who has read it all is more intelligent, understands it better or even more spiritual than someone who hasn't read it all. It does mean they have heard (or read) the conclusion of the whole matter. It would be and it is wrong if you decide that reading the entire Bible is senseless simply because you know others who have read it and don't agree with it, don't believe it, don't practice it or have gone on to wild points of view. Are you afraid that's going to happen to you?

Let me illustrate my point. Let's just take one book of the Bible: Matthew. For this point I'm making, forget all the other books (bear with me in my folly). If you read the first and last three chapters, what do you know? Christ was born, brutally murdered and rose from the dead. Praise God! But you don't know what he said or did inbetween. If you read the entire book of Matthew exept the first and last three chapters, You know of the man but not how he came or what happened to him. In both cases your knowledge of him is incomplete. Is it not better to read the whole book and know the beginning, middle and end?

Fire-7, at least give the Bible a chance! I encourage you to keep reading as I believe it will aid you in spiritual growth, and will be an added benefit in your natural life as well. The notion that others have read it and are no better off shouldn't scare you into not reading and studying it. As for it being a source of controversy, well.... The Bible said it would be!

The problem everyone is having is that they replace Jesus with a book...

No Robbie.... No one is replacing Jesus with a book. That's rediculous. It is the book that tells us what Jesus did, what he said, and who he is. Without that book, we have no more idea who Christ is than the prophets who said he was coming -- and even less than they did. That may seem harsh but it's the truth. The whole notion about Christ being in our hearts is true... I agree. However, what would we really know about that presense in our hearts? It would be like having a car but not the keys to it.

 

[Prentis]

Ok, Ive got a few people asking me questions as to what I said, Im going to take it one at a time. :)

Not quite. The different religions take a few verses. If you take the whole Bible, you CANNOT get a different view!

A quick example:

The Trinity can be proven using a few verses. However, it is contradicted, first by the ONE God statements, and also by the fact that the Son is clearly not equal with the Father, making Jesus less than God. The Trinity accounts for MOST, but not ALL!

The view where Jesus is not God, explains how the Son is not equal with the Father, and is based on Scripture as well. It is contradicted however, but statements about Jesus that make it obvious that he is MORE than just a man!

The Biblical view? There is ONE God, manifest in flesh. The humanity of that man who was born to Mary was called the Son. The Son didn't have a separate spirit inside him. The Son had the Spirit of the Father of Eternity. This view can account for all Scriptures without contradiction.

Btw, if anyone wants to debate the above points, do it in the proper forums. There are several of them. :)

Oh, forgot to mention, depends what doctrine you are looking at as well. There are the basic foundational doctrines such as those about God, etc, and the un-essential doctrines which are not necessary for salvation, such as end time stuff, etc. If you look at the whole Scripture, you cannot get a different view concerning the major doctrines.

As to the Spirit, yes, it is essential. Without the Spirit opening people's eyes, they cannot see and understand Scripture.

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ah, see, I do agree that the Bible is extremely valuable. When we take it in its entirety (with understanding) it really does show the truth.

BUT, who is doing the interpreting? It cannot be us. It has to be the Spirit. Jesus says that the sons of God are led of the Spirit. The Bible is a great and usefull tool. But we FOLLOW the living word, Jesus Christ. The Spirit then opens our understanding to the scriptures. We must seek the Lord. He is the Master, the King, and the one who opens our understanding and gives us wisdom.

Ok, i think that revelation in sense of a new dispensation is over. What we have to go by now is the Scripture. God gave the Law to the Israelites, and that was it. He didn't go on 'revealing' more truths! Jesus ushered in a new dispensation. The NT contains the teachings. Yes, we still get guidance, but NO, we do not get 'new' revelations.

I agree that there is no new dispensation. The natural man, us, cannot understand the things of God. Only the Spirit can open our understanding. We need him to reveal his truth to us. Not that it is new, but rather that WE need to have it revealed to us by God. Mental assertion of truth is not the point.

Hmmm. I wonder what would have happened if the early Christian reformers decided that they didn't need the Bible. They just needed Jesus to show them around! Perhaps Jesus wants us to be led by his Word!

Now I don't profess to be a great understander of Hebrew or Greek. I do beg to differ about the 'Word'. You obviously are making a real big issue over this. The word 'Word' comes from the Greek word, 'logos.' This word means 'expression' or 'speech'.

What about Scripture? I suppose that in some way is a warped definition of Jesus?

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Again, what about John 1? It says 'The Word was God', and as the rest of the chapter shows, it's talking about Jesus.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to throw the Bible out. To the contrary, it's a very valuable tool! But who is leading us?

Yes, the scriptures are given by the inspiration of God. And yet God decided to give Peter, Paul, John, etc, more words from him. He even spoke directly through him. Jesus says the sons of God are led of the Spirit.

 

[Robbie]

No groundzero...

You are replacing Jesus with a book... because the Word of God is Jesus and you insist that the Word of God is a book...

The Word of God is His beloved Son... not scripture... God didn't say, "None of you are going to be able to have a relationship with me until the bible is published so when they come out on book shelves make sure you pick one up and read it otherwise you can't know me"

God said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased... Hear Him!!!"

Jesus didn't say, "There's no way to the Father except through reading the bible" Jesus said, "There's no way to the Father but by Me"

Jesus didn't say, "If you've read the bible you've seen the Father" He said, "If you've seen Me you've seen the Father"

So who is the antichrist? He who denies that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh... I proclaim Jesus Christ has come in the flesh... and that He is in His who are His... you continue to deny this fact and say, "No.. you need to read a book to know Him" as you continue to insult me for believing even insinuating that I'm an absolute idiot for my beliefs and that I have no foundation... so as you insist that it's not possible to have a living relationship with the Father through the living Jesus without a book just know that by doing so whether you want to accept it or not you are denying the truth of the change Christ made on the cross.

When Christ died on the cross the bible didn't fly out from behind the veil... the veil was torn in two... showing we now have direct access to the Father... so you are greatly mistaken and the light you think you're defending is really just darkness...

At the same time I understand why you feel the way you do... the carnal mind accepts religion easily because it doesn't take faith to study the bible... many atheists have studied the bible... but to believe that Christ is Risen and that He has entered those that are His... and that through that relationship we have direct access to the Father... this is a spiritual mystery that the carnal mind sees as foolish... so I understand why you think that my faith makes me an absolute idiot... and I really hope you can get rid of the leaven that's hindering you from entering in.

Amen Prentis...

 

[Prentis]

Robbie, amen to that! The kingdom is NOT in word, but in POWER! The power of Christ in us!

Really Prentis? How many Bibles to you think we have? We have only ONE! Sure, we have many different versions... We have the KJV, the NKJV, the ASV, the NIV.... But we still have only one Bible. Is the world going astray because of all those versions? All of them say the world was going to go astray, don't they?

Again, here's the notion that the Church of the NT didn't have a NT. They somehow are better off than we are today? Paul, one of the Church leaders at the time said in 1 Cor 13:9-12: "For we know in part and prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I though as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

Are we greater than Paul? No, but we do have more than he had. We have his epistles as well as Peter's and the rest. Yes they turned the world upside down and it established Christianity. Now, we have it. This whole notion that the Church in the first century was better off or in as good shape as the Church of today (the True Church) is not true. Yes, they were at one time less effective! They had to and did change that. Paul wrote letters containing doctrines and established the Church (as did Peter and the rest). We are the fortunate ones to have what they established. Not better or worse, but certainly we have more knowledge in that we have the completed Bible. They turned the world over by writing the Bible! We don't have to do it again.

I agree we have to have the living word in us. The Bible is the one thing that guides us to it.

Yes, you are better off with no access to a Bible and Christ in you then with a Bible but without the life of Christ. HE is the one who gives life!

The writing of the Bible didn't turn the world upside down! They preached, they gave the life that Christ gave! Christ walked through them, and that is what has power...

The kingdom is not in word, brothers, it is in power!

 

[FHII]

This whole the spirit guides me and the Bible isn't the only source doctrine sounds like a recipe for disaster by allowing the heart's desires to have a say. I will not have a part in it.

 

[THE Gypsy]

Robbie, amen to that! The kingdom is NOT in word, but in POWER! The power of Christ in us!



Yes, you are better off with no access to a Bible and Christ in you then with a Bible but without the life of Christ. HE is the one who gives life!

The writing of the Bible didn't turn the world upside down! They preached, they gave the life that Christ gave! Christ walked through them, and that is what has power...

The kingdom is not in word, brothers, it is in power!

Prentis, It is one thing to GET saved. Quite another to grow within it.

Remember the parable of the seeds? Some that "received" were "choked out".

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matt 13:19-23

And why else would there be Scriptures on "studying"?

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15

The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things. Prov. 15:28

What do you suppose we are TO "study"? "divide"?


And what about "renewing your mind"?

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Rom 12:2

What exactly are we suppose to "renew our mind" with?

 

[Prentis]

This whole the spirit guides me and the Bible isn't the only source doctrine sounds like a recipe for disaster by allowing the heart's desires to have a say. I will not have a part in it.

The Lord guides us THROUGH the word. But we are not LED of the word, but the Spirit.

The letter kills, and if that is what we follow, it is a recipe for dead religion.

It is our job to discipline ourselves, be humble, and not trust our own heart and allow God to work his cross in us. That way it wont be our own understanding.

If we dont follow the Spirit, everything we take from the Bible will be our own opinion and understanding.

Prentis, It is one thing to GET saved. Quite another to grow within it.

Remember the parable of the seeds? Some that "received" were "choked out".

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Matt 13:19-23

And why else would there be Scriptures on "studying"?

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15

The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things. Prov. 15:28

What do you suppose we are TO "study"? "divide"?


And what about "renewing your mind"?

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Rom 12:2

What exactly are we suppose to "renew our mind" with?

Yes, as you say, you can receive the word and not grow further, and get choked out and die. You might notice also that many people started following Jesus, and then stopped. So I agree.

Ok. Let me try and clarify. Yes, we are to study the words that the Lord are spoken. We are to seek in this way. But we have to do it with our hearts turned to the Lord in faith.

The Lord does the transforming and the Lord makes us grow. Through his word? Yes. He does it through his word, he does it through experiences he gives us, all of it combined gives us the opportunity to make us like him. The Lord opens our understanding to the word.

We have one teacher and one master, and he is Jesus Christ.

 

[Prentis]

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

A natural man reading the Bible does nothing unless the Spirit awakens him.

 

[Duckybill]

This was a joke...right?

Did Jesus hang out with the religous or did He go right to the heart of the broken? Likewise, our "friends" are the non-believers...who should Aspen be friends with? And on another level OP is obviously getting horrible theology and desperately needs real answers... For the record, your Bible quote is COMPLETELY out of phase and context.

"A friend of the world is the enemy of God." Pretty clear isn't it.

Since you brought up James 4:4 and used it falsely, I will show the rest of the chapter - which you obviously haven't read or you would be trembling and in fear right now:

James 4:11-12
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[a] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

Nope, not false. Aspen's statement was that he has several CLOSE homosexual friends.

Matthew 5:14
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Paul wrote this SCATHING rebuke to us about being 'friends of the world':

2 Corinthians 6(NKJV)
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." 17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."

Friendly? Yes. Friends? NO!

 

[Duckybill]

The Lord guides us THROUGH the word. But we are not LED of the word, but the Spirit.

Anyone who isn't led by the written Word is in DEEP trouble! He is deceived by Satan.

Matthew 7:24-27 (NKJV)
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."

Any spirit that tells us we are not to be guided by the written NT is not from God.