Thoughts about using a KJV update?

[Jim B]

Just in case some need reminding what this 'battle' is all about... I recommend going back on this thread and reading the evidences that @Bible Highlighter has put up showing how there is a concerted ATTACK against God's Holy Writ. What KIND of attack?

The proposed CHANGES Wescott and Hort's corrupt manuscripts present REMOVES many basic traditional Christian Doctrines written in the EARLIER Greek Majority Texts which the early Church fathers used and quoted from. In some modifications their new Greek text even DENIES THE DEITY OF CHRIST JESUS, and sometimes totally removes references to Jesus (because being based on a corrupt manuscript).

The reason for those 'changes' is because of their using the corrupt Codex Vaticanus, their main Greek manuscript only found in 1475 in the Vatican, and never historically proven to be any older than that, which Wescott and Hort's theory relies upon, and is used to create a SOCIAL CHRISTIANITY, instead of REVEALED CHRISTIANITY directly from God's Divine Writ.

The reviser's committee that used Wescott and Hort's new Greek text (based on Vaticanus and Alexandrinus) wanted an ecumenical Bible version that ALL DENOMINATIONS could agree on and use, which was a CATHOLIC STRATEGY against the PROTESTANT FAITH and the EVANGELICAL CHURCH.

Thank you for your opinion. Why should anyone trust you instead of qualified modern scholars who use the best resources available?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The "outdated language" argument is BOGUS, as I showed in my post 109 here, comparing the updated KJV English version with the 1611 Old English 1st edition (but with modern characters).

Just about ALL Bible translations are using similar modern English like the updated KJV does.

I don't see the KJV English being any more difficult to understand than later versions...

Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
KJV

Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray.
ASV

Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.
ESV

Matt 24:4
4 Jesus told them, "Don't let anyone mislead you,
New Living Translation

Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
NKJV

Matt 24:4
4 And Jesus said to them in answer, Take care that you are not tricked.
BBE

Matt 24:4-5
4 Jesus answered them, "Be careful not to let anyone deceive you.
(from GOD'S WORD Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations Bible Society.)

Matt 24:4
4 Jesus answered, “Take care that no one misleads you about this.
Goodspeed

Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Watch out that no one deceives you!
(from The Lexham English Bible, Fourth Edition)

Matt 24:4
4 Jesus answered them, "Be careful that no one leads you astray.
NHEB

Matt 24:4
4 "Take care that no one misleads you," answered Jesus;
Weymouth

Matt 24:4
4 Jesus answered them, "Be careful that no one leads you astray.
WEB

Of course. You pick an easy passage which does not show the truth

Here you go..;.
Matthew 5:26

KJV
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing

NKJV
Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just mean that the various words for love in Scripture are to delineate fallen human behavior. For God, self-sacrificing, other-centered love is all there is. Can the unregenerate really agape one another? Agape is basically loving everyone—even our enemies. We all start out as enemies of God and we choose, at various points along the way, which nature we want to cultivate in life, in response to God's agape for us.

I heard a very interesting lecture the other day on pre-natal sanctification. It's a concept I really never considered before, but I couldn't say I have a good argument against it. It's pretty deep. It's related to the idea of John the Baptist and Christ being filled with the Holy Ghost in the womb.

Your wrong..

Agape is self sacrificial love, It is the type of love that gives its life for another

Brotherly love (phileo) is not that type of love. Not everyone will give their lives for their brother

 

[Davy]

Why was it necessary to update the language of the 1611 KJV?

Look at my post 109 and you will see why.

Old English SPELLING, even in MODERN ENGLISH CHARACTERS, is different. That supposedly is the bogus argument anti-KJV folks try... to use against the KJV. The later editions of the 1611 KJV Bible pretty much left the Old English language a long time ago, even though it still keeps thees and thous, etc.

 

[Jim B]

Here is the preface to the first edition of the NET Bible, my preferred translation. KJVOs and others take notice...

The NET Bible is a completely new translation of the Bible with 60,932 translators’ notes! It was completed by more than 25 scholars – experts in the original biblical languages – who worked directly from the best currently available Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts. Turn the pages and see the breadth of the translators’ notes, documenting their decisions and choices as they worked. The translators’ notes make the original languages far more accessible, allowing you to look over the translator’s shoulder at the very process of translation. This level of documentation is a first for a Bible translation, making transparent the textual basis and the rationale for key renderings (including major interpretive options and alternative translations). This unparalleled level of detail helps connect people to the Bible in the original languages in a way never before possible without years of study of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. It unlocks the riches of the Bible’s truth from entirely new perspectives.

...

The 60,932 translators’ notes included with the NET Bible are another result of our Internet focus. Bible readers are often not aware that every translation makes many interpretive decisions for them. One goal of the NET Bible project was to find a way to help the reader see the decisions and choices that went into the translation. The answer was to include notes produced by the translators while they worked through the issues and options confronting them as they did the work of translation – thus providing an unprecedented level of transparency for users. In fact, the nature of the Internet allows unlimited notes. These notes provide an extended dialogue between translator and reader about the alternatives for translation, options for interpretation, and finer nuances which are usually lost in translation. After the drafts and first rounds of editing were completed, we discovered that the thousands of notes we had accumulated could be made to fit on the printed page in addition to the electronic format. What you are now reading, on printed paper or on a digital screen is the First Edition of the NET Bible complete with all the translators’ notes. Never before in the history of the Bible has a translation been published which includes explanatory notes from the translators and editors as to why the preferred translation was chosen and what the other alternatives are. Students of the Bible, future Bible translators,1 and biblical scholars will all benefit from these unparalleled translators’ notes.2 One of the goals of the NET Bible with the complete set of translators’ notes is to allow the general public – as well as Bible students, pastors, missionaries, and Bible translators in the field – to be able to know what the translators of the NET Bible were thinking when a phrase or verse was rendered in a particular way. Many times the translator will have made informed decisions based on facts about grammatical, lexical, historical, and textual data not readily available to English-speaking students of the Bible. This information is now easily accessible through the translators’ notes.

 

[Davy]

Of course. You pick an easy passage which does not show the truth

Here you go..;.
Matthew 5:26

KJV
Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing

NKJV
Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

I don't see that one word being that difficult to understand that passage at all. All one need do is look up the meaning of "farthing" to know it points to money. And if one is from Britain, that should be easy to know, since a farthing was still in use all the way up to 1970, so probably mentioned a lot in that era.

Nice try though, but you still are not proving your point.

The Scripture in the 1611 KJV Bible, latter editions, that I see many STRUGGLE with, is not with the English language it's in, but with the actual MESSAGE itself. Just as Christ's Apostles asked Jesus why He spoke to the multitudes in parable, and Jesus said His Apostle's ears and eyes were blessed, and it was given for them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the multitudes, it is not given (Matthew 13). I believe THOSE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND many things written in God's Word in ANY Bible version like to beat up on the KJV for that reason.

 

[Davy]

Thank you for your opinion. Why should anyone trust you instead of qualified modern scholars who use the best resources available?

Watch the Bridge to Babylon documentary by BIBLE SCHOLARS that have DOCUMENTED the false working of the REVISIONISTS and you 'might' learn why.

 

[Jim B]

Already rebutted that in a previous post.

And proven false by the translators.

 

[Jim B]

Sure.

First time readers will get some good out of whatever Bible they use.

But once one becomes more mature and hungry for total truth, it’s KJV time!

Total truth? If you're not joking I feel very sorry for you. Do you actually equate the KJV with total truth? Jesus is the truth, not an outdated translation that is full of errors.

"Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

 

[Jim B]

Watch the Bridge to Babylon documentary by BIBLE SCHOLARS that have DOCUMENTED the false working of the REVISIONISTS and you 'might' learn why.

On your recommendation? You're joking! You must gain a modicum of respect from me before I'll take your recommendation about anything.

Here is a review on the movie from Amazon: This is not what it claims to be, and it's not useful or interesting. It's definitely not a honest documentary. Some Protestant theologians argue about whether higher textual criticism should be applied to the Bible. This piece is a low production value rant against the "liberals" within Evangelical Christianity who accept versions of the Bible which are newer than the King James, and which attempt to take into account discrepancies between various ancient Biblical texts. The topic is of severely limited interest to far right wing Evangelical Christians, and of approximately zero interest to everyone else. I admit I didn't listen to all of it, and I'm not going to. I just want to warn others that the work is a waste of time, completely unworthy of being grouped with actual Historical Documentaries. I notice Amazon has picked up several of these obscure Christian titles recently. It makes me wonder if there's an organized effort on the part of the Evangelicals to get their material out to a wider audience, or if Amazon is just scraping the bottom of the barrel for content.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus is the truth

“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” (John 17:17)

 

[Jim B]

I don't see that one word being that difficult to understand that passage at all. All one need do is look up the meaning of "farthing" to know it points to money. And if one is from Britain, that should be easy to know, since a farthing was still in use all the way up to 1970, so probably mentioned a lot in that era.

Nice try though, but you still are not proving your point.

The Scripture in the 1611 KJV Bible, latter editions, that I see many STRUGGLE with, is not with the English language it's in, but with the actual MESSAGE itself. Just as Christ's Apostles asked Jesus why He spoke to the multitudes in parable, and Jesus said His Apostle's ears and eyes were blessed, and it was given for them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the multitudes, it is not given (Matthew 13). I believe THOSE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND many things written in God's Word in ANY Bible version like to beat up on the KJV for that reason.

Your conclusion is absurd.

 

[Jim B]

“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” (John 17:17)

"Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

 

[Pearl]

Yet I referred you to it since. And I understand English very well, thank you. I even understand a little bit of European Spanish, German, Thai, and just a little Vietnamese. So you shouldn't continue to make remarks about things you have no clue about.

1 Corinthians 13:4
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

 

[Pearl]

Sure.

First time readers will get some good out of whatever Bible they use.

But once one becomes more mature and hungry for total truth, it’s KJV time!

Not necessarily.

 

[Jim B]

I don't see that one word being that difficult to understand that passage at all. All one need do is look up the meaning of "farthing" to know it points to money. And if one is from Britain, that should be easy to know, since a farthing was still in use all the way up to 1970, so probably mentioned a lot in that era.

Nice try though, but you still are not proving your point.

The Scripture in the 1611 KJV Bible, latter editions, that I see many STRUGGLE with, is not with the English language it's in, but with the actual MESSAGE itself. Just as Christ's Apostles asked Jesus why He spoke to the multitudes in parable, and Jesus said His Apostle's ears and eyes were blessed, and it was given for them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the multitudes, it is not given (Matthew 13). I believe THOSE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND many things written in God's Word in ANY Bible version like to beat up on the KJV for that reason.

You're joking, correct?

You wrote, "The Scripture in the 1611 KJV Bible, latter editions". Don't you mean "later" editions?

You also wrote, "I don't see that one word being that difficult to understand that passage at all." That is poor English.

As is, "Just as Christ's Apostles asked Jesus why He spoke to the multitudes in parable" [singular]

And, "Jesus said His Apostle's [singular] ears and eyes were blessed".

If you're such a language expert, how come you can't write correct English?

You remind me of the guy in the movie "12 Angry Men" who said, "He don't even speak good English".

 

[Michiah-Imla]

"Jesus replied, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Jim, of course Jesus is the truth.

But the written word is the truth as well.

Otherwise are you suggesting that we don’t need the Bible?

Just our own ideas about what the truth is with only knowing the Saviour’s name?

 

[BarneyFife]

Your wrong..

Agape is self sacrificial love, It is the type of love that gives its life for another

Brotherly love (phileo) is not that type of love. Not everyone will give their lives for their brother

You're preaching to the choir. :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't see that one word being that difficult to understand that passage at all. All one need do is look up the meaning of "farthing" to know it points to money. And if one is from Britain, that should be easy to know, since a farthing was still in use all the way up to 1970, so probably mentioned a lot in that era.

Nice try though, but you still are not proving your point.

The Scripture in the 1611 KJV Bible, latter editions, that I see many STRUGGLE with, is not with the English language it's in, but with the actual MESSAGE itself. Just as Christ's Apostles asked Jesus why He spoke to the multitudes in parable, and Jesus said His Apostle's ears and eyes were blessed, and it was given for them to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the multitudes, it is not given (Matthew 13). I believe THOSE WHO CAN'T UNDERSTAND many things written in God's Word in ANY Bible version like to beat up on the KJV for that reason.

Actually you just proved my point

Verily.. who uses that word today?

Farthing? Again Who uses the word

you don’t gibe a new person a Bible they can’t understand

 

[Jim B]

Jim, of course Jesus is the truth.

But the written word is the truth as well.

Otherwise are you suggesting that we don’t need the Bible?

Just our own ideas about what the truth is with only knowing the Saviour’s name?

There are many Christians who don't own a Bible. In fact, for most of Christianity's history many people were illiterate. Knowing Jesus is the basis for life, not whether one owns a Bible or not.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Knowing Jesus is the basis for life, not whether one owns a Bible or not

Without a Bible you cannot grow in the faith (1 Peter 2:2), hear the gospel (1 Peter 1:23), be doers of the word (James 1:22), preach the word (2 Timothy 4:2), be nourished (1 Timothy 4:6), You cannot read it to others (1 Thessalonians 5:27), your without a weapon (Ephesians 6:27), you cannot be clean (Ephesians 5:26), You cannot be sanctified (John 17:17), You cannot be blessed (Luke 11:28), You cannot live (Matthew 4:4), and on and on and on…

Even Christ himself quoted scripture to the Devil (Matthew 4:4-7).

YOU DO THEREFORE GREATLY ERR.