Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Groundzero
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
I'm being honest as to the merit of Scripture. If it's wrong, as you intimate, then obviously you're greater than GOD. So by simple logic, I arrived as you led.
Did you expect otherwise?
BibleScribe
Did you expect otherwise?
BibleScribe
If one Scripture is wrong, they're all wrong.
Thanks for helping me realize that GOD's Word is incorrect.
Thanks for helping me realize that GOD's Word is incorrect.
Biblescribe,
Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth was just a prophet like Moses, or God's Promised Saviour?
Do you believe Israel is to be under The New Covenant through Jesus Christ, or still should be under the Old Covenant?
Are you a Christian?
Have you been baptized in Christ Jesus?
Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth was just a prophet like Moses, or God's Promised Saviour?
Do you believe Israel is to be under The New Covenant through Jesus Christ, or still should be under the Old Covenant?
Are you a Christian?
Have you been baptized in Christ Jesus?
Veteran,
Do you believe that GOD cannot be tempted? Do you also believe that Jesus is fully GOD? And do you believe that Jesus was tempted?
Please accept Jesus as your saviour. He promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead you into all TRUTHS! :)
BibleScribe
Do you believe that GOD cannot be tempted? Do you also believe that Jesus is fully GOD? And do you believe that Jesus was tempted?
Please accept Jesus as your saviour. He promised to send the Holy Spirit to lead you into all TRUTHS! :)
BibleScribe
It should be a "no brainer", but then you'd equally have an explanation for how "God is not tempted". So I'd suggest that you put on your thinking cap, (not the pointed one, -- the flat one, preferably with the college colors), and figure out exactly how Jesus was NOT God. :)
BibleScribe
Christ was God. I know that the flesh and those who think with brains of flesh can't know it. The flesh is all they can understand.
The body of Christ is the Body of God. If you have seen Christ you have seen God. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. God was On His throne of Heaven and in Christ and guiding the constellations in their seasons and feeding the lions in Africa while fueling the suns of the universe to continue to give their light all at the same time. God is Spirit. He is omnipotent and Omnipresent.
John 14
9 Jesus said to him, ------- He who has seen Me has seen the Father;
I agree that Jesus is GOD, -- and because GOD cannot be tempted, then I guess neither was Jesus.
Does this help your understanding of Scripture? I hope when you delete all those references to Jesus being tempted that you NOT use an Exacto Knife, or a Sharipe, (one removes the other side of the page text, and the second bleeds through to the other side of the page text), but that you use something like "white-out".
To All,
Once again, it's not sufficient to satisfy part of Scripture and violate another. One MUST find a solution which satisfies ALL Scriptural aspects. And apparently my advice in this regard has not been welcomed, so I leave that challenge open for any who can receive the TRUTH from the Holy Spirit, in spite of those closely held false doctrines. :)
BibleScribe
I agree that Jesus is GOD, -- and because GOD cannot be tempted, then I guess neither was Jesus.
Does this help your understanding of Scripture? I hope when you delete all those references to Jesus being tempted that you NOT use an Exacto Knife, or a Sharipe, (one removes the other side of the page text, and the second bleeds through to the other side of the page text), but that you use something like "white-out".
To All,
Once again, it's not sufficient to satisfy part of Scripture and violate another. One MUST find a solution which satisfies ALL Scriptural aspects. And apparently my advice in this regard has not been welcomed, so I leave that challenge open for any who can receive the TRUTH from the Holy Spirit, in spite of those closely held false doctrines. :)
BibleScribe
The problem is not in satisfying scripture but a misunderstanding of that scripture. The scripture says that God can not be tempted by evil. That is not saying that the devil didn't try. The devil tried to tempt Christ also but was unsuccessful.
I don't fully understand what everyone's conflict is with this concept. Jesus WAS "fully man" and he DIDN'T "exercise his God power" while he was fully man.
IF he hadn't become "fully man" his life, death, and resurrection would be a moot point. By setting aside his Godhood to take on manhood, he was able to show us it could be done if we relied on the Father.
Or am I missing something, here?
Only a Jew would proclaim that Jesus were not God. There is plenty of proof that has been provided that proves this fact, to deny it is anti-Christian. And you want to tell me that I am an false teacher! Jesus should be the CHRISTians EVERYTHING! We carry His name, and we are to pray in His name. If that doesn't deify something, then I don't really know what else would.
early christians did not view John 1:1 to mean that Jesus was God. The Coptic christians of Egypt made a translation of Johns gospel into their own language back in the 2nd/3rd century. Their language is similar to english in that it is a languages which uses both the definite and indefinite articles.
In John 1:1 they rendered it with an indefinite article this way:
Coptic translation
1:1 ϨΝ ΤЄϨΟΥЄΙΤЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝϬΙΠϢΑϪЄ, ΑΥѠ ΠϢΑϪЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝΝΑϨΡΜ ΠΝΟΥΤЄ. ΑΥѠ ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤЄ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ
In the beginning existed the Word, and the Word existed with God, and the Word was a God.
If we take the coptic christians as an early evidence of how christians understood John 1:1, then there would be no debate on the issue at all.
I know about that. And I understand what that means. It is simply making a distinction between the one who utters (The God) from the utter itself (His Word). It's like you when you speak and the sound of your voice. You the speaker is distinct from your voice but both you the speaker and your voice are one. So that is why the word Word is used……Jesus is the thought and speech of The God, so the Word is God.
[email protected]
Choir Loft
You do not understand the mechanics of the power of sin when you make a statement like that.
Jesus was tempted, but did not sin.
Despite your odd statement to the contrary, such that temptation somehow denies divinity, NO statement in the Bible can be found which says that Jesus YIELDED to sin. That single point is the hinge upon which divine power rests. Jesus NEVER yielded to the temptation to sin.
Does that count in the sum total of proof of Jesus' divine character? How about the healings, the miracles and raising folks from the dead. NO ONE exercises that sort of power except they are holy and untouched by sin. Jesus was the first person in history to do that......and let's not forget that he arose from his own execution as well.
Stamp of approval. Yes folks the man Jesus was really really God.
"Thou shalt have no GODS before me" Quite contradictory in itself i believe. We are told that Jesus is that Word in Revelation 19:11-13
If GOD cannot be tempted, and Jesus was GOD (on earth), then there either was no temptation, or there was no GOD. Which is it? :)
BibleScribe
Apparently "James" was a JEW. LOLOL
James 1:13 (KJV)
[sup]13[/sup]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
To All,
Is logic that far removed from doctrines? In the words of "My Cousin Vinny",
Vinny Gambini: Oh, oh, oh, you tesitfied earlier that you saw the boys go into the store, and you had just begun to cook your breakfast and you were just getting ready to eat when you heard the shot.
Mr. Tipton: That's right.
Vinny Gambini: So obviously it takes you 5 minutes to cook your breakfast.
Mr. Tipton: That's right.
Vinny Gambini: That's right, so you knew that. You remember what you had?
Mr. Tipton: Eggs and grits.
Vinny Gambini: Eggs and grits. I like grits, too. How do you cook your grits? Do you like them regular, creamy or al dente?
Mr. Tipton: Just regular I guess.
Vinny Gambini: Regular. Instant grits?
Mr. Tipton: No self respectin' Southerner uses instant grits. I take pride in my grits.
Vinny Gambini: So, Mr. Tipton, how could it take you 5 minutes to cook your grits when it takes the entire grit eating world 20 minutes?
Mr. Tipton: I don't know, I'm a fast cook I guess.
Vinny Gambini: I'm sorry I was all the way over here I couldn't hear you did you say you were a fast cook, that's it?
Mr. Tipton: Yeah.
Vinny Gambini: Are we to believe that boiling water soaks into a grit faster in your kitchen than anywhere else on the face of the earth?
Mr. Tipton: I don't know.
Vinny Gambini: Well, I guess the laws of physics cease to exist on top of your stove. Were these magic grits? Did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104952/quotes
Well maybe the laws of simple logic cease to exist in the minds of some Forum posters. Maybe these are magic doctrines. Maybe these doctrines came from the same guy to sold Jack his beanstalk beans.
BibleScribe
James 1:13 says, "Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone." How can Jesus be GOD if God cannot be tempted?
It does not say “he cannot be tempted”- but that “he cannot be tempted by evil”- that is the point of James thought, God does not tempt us with evil (to sin) nor can He be tempted by evil and sin.
Jesus was tempted at all points (Heb.4:15), meaning Jesus was tempted at all points as mentioned in 1 Jn.2:16- the world—1) the lust of the flesh, 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life (1 Jn.2:16). He was tempted directly by the Devil to do evil by disobeying god and coveting the kingdom. Even Satan the most power creature was unable to tempt Jesus to do sin or evil (Mt.4).
Temptations often instigate a response from the sin nature in man, but Jesus had no sin nature.
2 Corinthians 5:20-21: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
1 Peter 2:21-22: “For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: "Who committed no sin” Nor was deceit found in His mouth";
1 John 3:5-6: “And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.”
The first Adam became a sinner by sinning, after him the whole human race had no choice, it was passed on as our nature. Jesus as the 2nd Adam had the same choice to become a sinner by sinning. Could Jesus have sinned in his humanity while being God in the flesh? We need to understand that he was one person. If his humanity was separate, it could have willed to do just as Adam did. But his spirit , who he was inside kept him pure. While He had the choice to sin He did not have the ability, he was dead to sin. The humanity of Christ could never be separate from or unsupported from His deity.
He knew no sin (2 Cor.5:21) meaning He gained no knowledge of sin through experience. He came like a man (Rom.8:3) looking like anyone else yet without the sinful nature. He could not react to sin in any way. In our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature. Jesus however did not have the sin nature that we have. He was free to act perfectly in all situations. He acted upon his sinless nature obeying another's will, that of his Father. He was not able to go against God's will because He did not have the nature of sin to have that possibility. Jn. 8:46 he asks the people "which of you convicts me of sin." Obviously they could not accuse him of any sin in all the time he lived among them. Jesus was born under the law but was kept free from any transgressions of the law. He was the only one who ever obeyed the law perfectly in all its requirements. Since sin is falling short of God's perfection Jesus was never less than perfect at any time.
What of all the temptations, were they genuine, did he feel what we do? Each of us can relate to being tempted and have successfully resisted that temptation not giving in to the pull of sin. None of us would argue that the temptation was real and had a purpose in its end. The temptations that Jesus had were every bit real as ours, maybe more intense since the enemy was working vigorously toward the goal of Jesus' defeat. Since he did not give in, it does not discount how real they were. Temptability does mean one is susceptible to do that temptation. An army can attack another Army but that does not mean it can conquer it. For example, God has all power, He can create and destroy with the blink of an eye. Does this mean if he does not use his power he does not really posses it?
Jesus was made perfect through his suffering (Heb.2:10), In other words it is speaking of his humanity being tested. Heb.4:15: "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses but was in all points tempted as we are yet without sin."
"For in that he himself suffered being tempted, he is able to aid those who are tempted." By becoming a man He can understand our human predicament. He lived it victoriously and can go before the Father representing humanity and pray for our weaknesses.
Heb 7:25-27: "Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God since He always lives to make intercession for them." For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for Ms own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up himself”
He was tempted without sinning because "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself" (1 Cor. 5:21.)
It does not say “he cannot be tempted”- but that “he cannot be tempted by evil”- that is the point of James thought, God does not tempt us with evil (to sin) nor can He be tempted by evil and sin.
Jesus was tempted at all points (Heb.4:15), meaning Jesus was tempted at all points as mentioned in 1 Jn.2:16- the world—1) the lust of the flesh, 2) the lust of the eyes, and 3) the pride of life (1 Jn.2:16). He was tempted directly by the Devil to do evil by disobeying god and coveting the kingdom. Even Satan the most power creature was unable to tempt Jesus to do sin or evil (Mt.4).
Temptations often instigate a response from the sin nature in man, but Jesus had no sin nature.
2 Corinthians 5:20-21: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
1 Peter 2:21-22: “For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: "Who committed no sin” Nor was deceit found in His mouth";
1 John 3:5-6: “And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.”
The first Adam became a sinner by sinning, after him the whole human race had no choice, it was passed on as our nature. Jesus as the 2nd Adam had the same choice to become a sinner by sinning. Could Jesus have sinned in his humanity while being God in the flesh? We need to understand that he was one person. If his humanity was separate, it could have willed to do just as Adam did. But his spirit , who he was inside kept him pure. While He had the choice to sin He did not have the ability, he was dead to sin. The humanity of Christ could never be separate from or unsupported from His deity.
He knew no sin (2 Cor.5:21) meaning He gained no knowledge of sin through experience. He came like a man (Rom.8:3) looking like anyone else yet without the sinful nature. He could not react to sin in any way. In our fallen humanity we cannot act apart from our nature. Jesus however did not have the sin nature that we have. He was free to act perfectly in all situations. He acted upon his sinless nature obeying another's will, that of his Father. He was not able to go against God's will because He did not have the nature of sin to have that possibility. Jn. 8:46 he asks the people "which of you convicts me of sin." Obviously they could not accuse him of any sin in all the time he lived among them. Jesus was born under the law but was kept free from any transgressions of the law. He was the only one who ever obeyed the law perfectly in all its requirements. Since sin is falling short of God's perfection Jesus was never less than perfect at any time.
What of all the temptations, were they genuine, did he feel what we do? Each of us can relate to being tempted and have successfully resisted that temptation not giving in to the pull of sin. None of us would argue that the temptation was real and had a purpose in its end. The temptations that Jesus had were every bit real as ours, maybe more intense since the enemy was working vigorously toward the goal of Jesus' defeat. Since he did not give in, it does not discount how real they were. Temptability does mean one is susceptible to do that temptation. An army can attack another Army but that does not mean it can conquer it. For example, God has all power, He can create and destroy with the blink of an eye. Does this mean if he does not use his power he does not really posses it?
Jesus was made perfect through his suffering (Heb.2:10), In other words it is speaking of his humanity being tested. Heb.4:15: "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses but was in all points tempted as we are yet without sin."
"For in that he himself suffered being tempted, he is able to aid those who are tempted." By becoming a man He can understand our human predicament. He lived it victoriously and can go before the Father representing humanity and pray for our weaknesses.
Heb 7:25-27: "Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God since He always lives to make intercession for them." For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for Ms own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up himself”
He was tempted without sinning because "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself" (1 Cor. 5:21.)
- Status
