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Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Luk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. ...these are your scripture references? That's odd
Who is our Teacher?
Do you have an unction from within or are you just posting verses, out of context?
1Jn_2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Who is your teacher? Fallible man?
Blessings
J.
Christ!
Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17
Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!
The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)
Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14
God does not reveal His truth in a vacuum!
God does not set His true adrift on a sea of spiritual anarchy!
God sets His truth in His church, in the possession of His apostles to safeguard, to ensure it is not added to, or taken away from, or changed in any way!
And to teach the same truth to all nations and all ages!
Verified by scripture:
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost!
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints!
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness!
(all scripture not 66 books alone)
Must be instructed in the faith:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…
Jn 29:21-23 as the father sent me, so I send you. (Same mission, power, and authority to teach all nations)
Lk 10:16 He who hears you, (His apostles) hear me.
Jn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 8:32 You (the apostles) shall know the truth; and the truth shall make you free.
Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(His apostles)
Who is your Teacher and Illuminator re the scriptures? Who brings about conviction, your pastor?
Blessings
J.
Christ!
The church is an extension of Christ!
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42
Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4
@theefaith ...it would seem that you are even using your resources out of context and cannot hold a simple dialogue...but I am not here to win arguments, it is futile.
blessings
J.
@theefaith ...there is exegesis and eisegesis
1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
4) "Comparing Spiritual things with Spiritual." (pneumatikois pneumatika sunkrinontos) "With spiritual things, spiritual things comparing." The Scriptures have their origin in God through men inspired of God, so that these Spirit guided men used spiritual things to compare spiritual things. Our Lord used the mystery parables and explained that so that the Spiritually discerning, His church disciples could understand what He taught. They still can, by comparing Scripture with Scripture in its contextual setting, Mat_13:9-17.
Garner
It shall help thee greatly to understand scripture
if thou mark not only what is spoken
or written
but of whom
and to whom
with what words
at what time
where
to what intent
with what circumstances
considering what goeth before
and what followeth after
Miles Coverdale
I think you have a lot to learn in the soma of Christ
kinda reminds me of.....
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
...sometimes it is good advice, in the light of scripture, to humble oneself...
Blessings
J.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Hi Amad, been a while since we conversed my friend, nice hearing from you sir. Rev 20:5 is an interesting verse because the final part of it is actually referring to the next verse not that one, I wonder why Bible translators break it there. The anointed of verse 6 are the first resurrection, and they inherit immortality, the rest of us including Methuselah have to wait to be tested by satan until we actually are granted life.
People generally do not think of this, but God told Adam that he would die in that day if he ate of the fruit of a particular tree, a day to God is 1k years to us 2 Pet 3:8. Methuselah was the closest one to live out an entire day of God, the longest living human on record.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
There is always hope, and there is a guarantee that some will be granted everlasting life Mat 7:14. The sad truth is however, unless Jesus is wrong of course is that most will choose the road to destruction v 13. Many think they are saved right now, and if Jesus came right now perhaps that would be true, but for most of us, salvation comes after our test, which is still a millennium away. Remember Jesus' words, the one who endures to the end will be saved Mat 24:13
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
No sir, although some may interpret it as such, remember the Bible must be taken as a whole, it does not contradict.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
This makes no sense to me....
So SOME have hope. but not all. That does not give ME any hope
Jesus said come and he will give you rest. How can I have rest if I have no hope or assurance?
How can I claim I have hope in God if my hope is really based on me? (if salvation can be lost. my salvation is dependent on doing something, or failing to do something)
Again, Just because some think they are saved does not mean they are. And to use that because some think they are saved to prove people can lose salvation is self defeating. You can;t lose something you do not have.
As for people thinking they are saved,
Jesus said many will come just like this, Who say have we not done all these great works in your name.
What will jesus reply be to those who thought they were saved?
Depart from me FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.
He never knew them, why? even though they THOUGHT they were saved, they were never saved. They did not lose security, salvation or eternal life. they never had it.
@Robert Gwin
Slight error in casting present salvation into the future...
Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
The work of the Holy Spirit, the earnest of our inheritance
Introduction to section three:
THREE
Fulfillment, fullness, Set-apart, holiness, possession,
sanctuary, solidity and reality
With the three persons of the Godhead before us, you can see fullness and completion. Under the numeral one (1), you have the work of the Father as Planner of the salvation of man. Under the numeral two (2), you have the work of the Son in executing that plan and securing the redemption of man. Under the numeral three (3), you see the Holy Spirit in His role of revelation of that plan to man, the object of salvation. This also signals the completion of the work of God for Man. The plan of salvation and the work of each member of the Trinity are evident with the giving of the Holy Spirit, the down payment of God's assets deposited for His own.
There are many aspects to the work of the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity. Two of those are to be looked at here; One, the "sealing" ministry of the Holy Spirit as the guarantor of our eternal security in Christ, and Two, the role of the Holy Spirit as the "earnest", or down payment, on our inheritance.
It is by means of the Holy Spirit that the believer is placed into union with Christ. This is the location into which we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Once having been placed "into Christ" by an act of God the Holy Spirit, it is impossible for any lesser power to undue such seal.
The "sealing" ministry of the Holy Spirit
(1:13) Many believers are afraid of losing their salvation because they discover sin in their life as they grow in their Christian experience. A lot of them do not understand that they are held secure "in Christ". They are "sealed" (aorist-once for all) to Him by the action of the Holy Spirit.
That work is not in response to merit on their part, nor can it be shaken or annulled by any particular act, which they might confess or commit. The Holy Spirit works at the behest of, and according to, the will of the Father. Since there was nothing we "did" in order to earn our election by the Father, it follows that there is nothing we can "do" to disallow His election or reverse the sealing work of the Holy Spirit.
The content of the promise is a display of God's love for us. It is expressed in love as He claimed us as His own and in love as Christ gave Himself for our redemption, and now in love as the Holy Spirit daily reveals that plan of redemption to us.
Ye also (kai humeis). Ye Gentiles (now Christians), in contrast to hēmās (we) in Eph_1:12.
In whom (en hōi). Repeated third time (once in Eph_1:11, twice in Eph_1:13), and note ho or hos in Eph_1:14.
Ye were sealed (esphragisthēte). First aorist passive indicative of sphragizō, old verb, to set a seal on one as a mark or stamp, sometimes the marks of ownership or of worship of deities like stigmata (Gal_6:17). Marked and authenticated as God’s heritage as in Eph_4:30. See note on 2Co_1:22 for the very use of the metaphor here applied to the Holy Spirit even with the word arrabōn (earnest).
Spirit (pneumati). In the instrumental case.
Salvation is PRESENT dear Robert.
Blessings
J.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
wrong sir. the bible does say we have been saved.
eph 2 says we HAVE BEEN saved and are currently saved By Grace
Rom 8 says we were saved in this hope
2 timothy 1 says we have been saved
titus 3, we have been saved (by his mercy)
The bible can not contradict himself. and it has to be taken into context. we do not interpret the word to fit our belief it is the opposite.
the bile says I am currently saved, I am rescued from the penalty of sin (justification) and am perfected forever.
It says I am being saved (from the power of sin) as God, who perfected us forever, is in the work of sanctifying us through christian growth.
And it says we will be saved. those who are saved now have this assurance, that he who began a good work WILL COMPLETE it until the day of Christ.
once again, You offer no one hope
Paul said we have the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.
If I have no hope I am eternally secure in christ, and have eternal life. and he will complete the work he started. I have no true faith.
If I have no true faith. I would question my salvation. Because I am going and building on a false hope that is not assured. and depends on me, Not God
Yes, indeed, if we pass the test. God provided the means for anyone to make it. Many will not because they are not interested at all or they unwilling to use what God has provided to strive. Our striving will not alone do it, but God seeing our efforts can and does fill in the gaps for people who love Him enough to make the effort. How much love is enough?
"Much is given... much is required" [from Luke 12:48]
If we do not use what God has given us, what reward should we expect? If we do not love God enough to strive to give Him our reasonable service, what should we expect?
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:1-2
Saved or...?
Well according to a lot of people, a lot of people have been saved. I agree in a certain sense. Today I did not stumble on some things that I have stumbled on before and it was certainly God who 'saved' me, kept me that is, from so stumbling. However, if I later on stumble on one of those same things from which I was saved today the salvation was incomplete at best.
I remember back in 1976 when they told me that I was 'saved' because I had repented and I had spoken in an unknown tongue for the first time. They were right in that I was saved from being stuck on that pathway which is pointed always away from God. But, the ultimately, final salvation of which so many speak so easily, was not mine. There was work to be done by God in me. Jesus had come to make that a possibility. He had been the Door/Gate placed at the entrance to Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life, but He was closed... not open to the dead people of this planet called Earth.
Jesus came and opened up the Door, Himself, so people could go through Him. I couldn't go through it myself in 1976 spite of feeling much better about the whole thing after my experience with God. But...LOL, I was still pretty blind. [How is my vision today?]
There is a lot more Light available to me these days, but the blindness is not gone. Actually what I see more clearly now is my inability to see very much at all much of the time. A lot of those little savings in people do little good because continually they go back and repeat themselves. Little good, little savings, like the natural children of Israel who had to return daily to just hold back the tide of hopelessness.
If we are saved from the penalty of one sin [death] one day, but the underlying cause of the sin in ourselves remains, will we not walk again along that wrong pathway we know so well and repeat the very same sin? How long will God put up with this repeated repentance and backsliding habit? The habit, or better said, habits, are man's way as opposed to God's Way!
Peter asked Jesus how many times he should forgive his brother who did ought against him... seven times? Jesus said, no, try seven times seventy. How much mercy will God have on us when we repent with tears even after he has saved us from our sins repeatedly because we have repented repeatedly? Well, I know I have failed Him more than 490 times since 1976.
Why did God hate Esau and love Jacob?
"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16
The "world" is the one that Jesus overcame in himself. We have been given the means to overcome it also in ourselves, but if we do not, and/or if
we lack the proper garment, we will be turned away without partaking of the Tree of Life!
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7
God has provided the means for us to overcome the world of our own flesh and other obstacles standing between us and God. He has promised to help us if we sincerely ask Him for help... but the test is this period of time in the flesh with its trials.
Jesus overcame the world of the temptations of men and made it possible for us to do so as well. Who but an overcomer may eat of the Tree of Life?
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8
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bbyrd009
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