ScottA
Well-Known Member
I have already answered. How is it that you did not hear me?
God chose Israel to be a people and a nation who were not a nation--He made them to be the house of Israel, and Christ identified them as the first of two "folds."
What is God's "Plan" For You?
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God chose Israel to be a people and a nation who were not a nation--He made them to be the house of Israel, and Christ identified them as the first of two "folds."
Then you don't qualify according to Galatians 3:16-29.
If the seed of Abraham is the nation of Israel, as a Gentile, you do not belong.
Yup. Your opinion, since scripture says the seed of Abraham is Christ and the heirs of the kingdom Galatians 3:16-29.
Those who are blessed - that is all the nations serve and obey them. Daniel 7:13, 14, 27; Revelation 20:4
Two groups. One heavenly. One earthly. Ephesians 1:8-12; Revelation 21:3, 4
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The nation of Israel broke the covenant, and were rejected as a nation.
They were first to gain the opportunity to be heirs, but they threw it away. Romans 9:1-8
Those who accepted Christ were first his apostles, and onward, as I showed in an earlier post. They are firstfruits to God. You do know what firstfruits mean, don't you?
Only individual Jews who accept Christ could be saved, but with both Jews and Gentiles who make up the little flock, and who are heirs of the kingdom. Romans 9:23-24; Romans 11
The heirs of the kingdom are not from Hagar - the slave girl... which is the nation of Israel. Galatians 4:21-31
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
No, hell is forever for immortal beings. That's the point - they are immortal; they live forever.
The unsaved human is not immortal, nor is their spirit and soul. Adam's sin caused the death of them and the body holding them. Only when we are saved are we given eternal life. That is a precious gift and we need to keep it pure. If we sin willfully, and God does not grant us repentance, then " Heb. 10:30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I don’t understand how God giving a person a soul, that is not immortal. That just does not make sense to me.
God gave the soul to the human being.
God is also the giver of life and the taker of life.
The soul Goes back to God : Jesus Christ on the cross saved all people from death, Satan and his demons, hell/Sheol.. that was the victory Jesus had: for All people…
And the Bible explicitly says this Romans 14:11; Philippians 2:9-11; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1-6;Revelation 22:14-16
Sure an unsaved person may have very little good left in him, going through taking a “part” in the lake of fire but the evil will be scrubbed away and the light remaining. That fire is probably protruding from God himself, and that fire can purify. Those who desire nothing to do with God from what scripture says are outside the kingdom of God.
Life goes on for all people after this life good or bad… either inside or outside of the kingdom.
you guys baffle me for saying that something God gives just doesn’t mean anything …
To me Saying these things: It’s like God looks at people as trash no good and need to be thrown away rather than to be recovered… why did Jesus desire to have all the fragments of fish to be gathered after Everyone had finished eating?
God gave the soul to the human being.
God is also the giver of life and the taker of life.
The soul Goes back to God : Jesus Christ on the cross saved all people from death, Satan and his demons, hell/Sheol.. that was the victory Jesus had: for All people…
And the Bible explicitly says this Romans 14:11; Philippians 2:9-11; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1-6;Revelation 22:14-16
Sure an unsaved person may have very little good left in him, going through taking a “part” in the lake of fire but the evil will be scrubbed away and the light remaining. That fire is probably protruding from God himself, and that fire can purify. Those who desire nothing to do with God from what scripture says are outside the kingdom of God.
Life goes on for all people after this life good or bad… either inside or outside of the kingdom.
you guys baffle me for saying that something God gives just doesn’t mean anything …
To me Saying these things: It’s like God looks at people as trash no good and need to be thrown away rather than to be recovered… why did Jesus desire to have all the fragments of fish to be gathered after Everyone had finished eating?
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
There is no verse in scripture that claims that the fires of hell are for cleansing. ONLY the blood Jesus can cleanse away sin. You are talking like a Unitarian, and believing man-made myths.
Fire and brimstone. Brimstone is also like that of a rubbing stone. It doesn’t negate the scripture and it what it states about murders, dogs, sexually immoral, those who loved to lies and loved it, all outside the city.
All hell is the covering place of the dead. It has not fire in it. It is separation from God. I believe Jesus overcame this place.
Anyway it doesn’t the negate how (in the broadest of the view and sense) people can considerably look down on other people while they are secure in their own salvation. It’s really makes me sick to my stomach.
God bless,
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
All hell is the covering place of the dead. It has not fire in it. It is separation from God. I believe Jesus overcame this place.
Anyway it doesn’t the negate how (in the broadest of the view and sense) people can considerably look down on other people while they are secure in their own salvation. It’s really makes me sick to my stomach.
God bless,
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
The Disciple John said: What is God's plan for you[/QUOTE\]
I certainly agree that a Christian should have a personal relationship with God, so I can understand someone asking the question, what is God's plan for you. However when you talk about God having a plan, wouldn't or shouldn't we believe God to be a God of purpose, since God's plan would have a purpose? We know God is the creator of all things, and we know that God is love.(1 John 4:6) So do you agree that it's very reasonable to conclude that God loved life so much that he decided sometime in the distant past to share life with others and brought creation into existence? If you agree that God is love, do you agree that the life God wanted for intelligent beings, Angels and humans, was eternal life? When God put Adam in the Garden of Eden, was it Gods purpose or plan for Adam to die or to have eternal life? Was sin and death part of God's plan or purpose? Isn't it true that when we study the scriptures we find that God is a God of order, not chaos? Would you agree that sin and death causes a lot of chaos? If we agree that sin and death causes chaos how could we truly believe that God wants everything to be chaotic, that sin and death was part of his plan, that sin and death is the way God purposed things to be?
Didn't God love Adam so much he wanted him to live forever? Do you agree that God wants people who would love him so much that they would exercise faith that he would always give commands for them to obey that was in their best interest to obey and that he would never give them a command that was impossible for them to obey? Doesn't that mean, right from the start when God put man in the garden of Eden it was God's purpose his plan for mankind to fill the whole planet with righteous sinless humans who never grew old and got sick and died? Since God plan/purpose can not be stopped isn't it true that purpose will be realized for his planet that man is living on?(Isaiah 55:10,11) Can an angel that became a Satan and a devil stop God's purpose from being realized when he caused mankind to disobey God and fall into sin?
I certainly agree that a Christian should have a personal relationship with God, so I can understand someone asking the question, what is God's plan for you. However when you talk about God having a plan, wouldn't or shouldn't we believe God to be a God of purpose, since God's plan would have a purpose? We know God is the creator of all things, and we know that God is love.(1 John 4:6) So do you agree that it's very reasonable to conclude that God loved life so much that he decided sometime in the distant past to share life with others and brought creation into existence? If you agree that God is love, do you agree that the life God wanted for intelligent beings, Angels and humans, was eternal life? When God put Adam in the Garden of Eden, was it Gods purpose or plan for Adam to die or to have eternal life? Was sin and death part of God's plan or purpose? Isn't it true that when we study the scriptures we find that God is a God of order, not chaos? Would you agree that sin and death causes a lot of chaos? If we agree that sin and death causes chaos how could we truly believe that God wants everything to be chaotic, that sin and death was part of his plan, that sin and death is the way God purposed things to be?
Didn't God love Adam so much he wanted him to live forever? Do you agree that God wants people who would love him so much that they would exercise faith that he would always give commands for them to obey that was in their best interest to obey and that he would never give them a command that was impossible for them to obey? Doesn't that mean, right from the start when God put man in the garden of Eden it was God's purpose his plan for mankind to fill the whole planet with righteous sinless humans who never grew old and got sick and died? Since God plan/purpose can not be stopped isn't it true that purpose will be realized for his planet that man is living on?(Isaiah 55:10,11) Can an angel that became a Satan and a devil stop God's purpose from being realized when he caused mankind to disobey God and fall into sin?
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
No...we discussed this already (I am repeating myself, which I will not do for long).
We are made one flock in Christ.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Okay, you have said enough.
You have confessed that you are not born again of the spirit of God (quoted above), which disqualifies you to fully understand the scriptures, for they are spirit--and it shows.
But I am born [again] of the spirit of God, and therefore I will correct you on this matter--one last time. And I will also warn you: There are consequences for misrepresenting the Spirit as you are doing--which is to take the name of the Lord in vain, and blaspheme the Holy Spirit:
First, not being born of the spirit of God only qualifies one to read and to hear the word of God, to believe or not, to speak of the mystery of God without understanding, to theorize by mere conjecture, to ask questions, and only to hold dominion over matters of the flesh: "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6
As for the two folds: The two folds that Christ must bring (as He said) are just that, meaning those who personify what is born of the flesh who die in their sin--namely Israel, and also those who personify what is born of the Spirit--namely the gentiles. The one (the first fold) was chosen by God to be a light unto the gentiles (the second fold). Thus Jesus said, "So the last will be first, and the first last.", for the first came before salvation, therefore die in their sins and are "the dead in Christ"; while the last to come into the world are the first to be able to be born again of the spirit of God, making them "the living in Christ." All of whom (the dead and the living in Christ) are made one in Christ, "and there will be one flock and one shepherd."
As for your claims and misunderstanding of Isaiah 45:18 and God creating the earth to be inhabited: This is not that earth of which He spoke. This earth is to "be dissolved...and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."
This is a call to repentance.
If you have questions. Ask.
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Did you read my post?
Hell is not "forever for immortal beings such as Satan and his angels". Revelation 20:13-14
King James Bible
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Hell is cast into the Lake of Fire, after being emptied, and the Lake of Fire is the second death, so Hell does not last forever, but is subjected to a death state - gone for good.
Do you think the second death is hell? If so, the Bible does not say that.
Nowhere does the Bible say the Devil, and the demons, nor those not written in the book of life, are immortal.
I agree with you.
Nothing or no one can or will stop God from fulfilling his purpose, which never changed - to have a family both in heaven and on earth, living forever.
The adopted sons of God are taken from the earth, for the purpose of reining with Christ, and serving as priests. They can sympathize with our weaknesses, since they too were like us, and experienced the same difficulties.... and there is much more to say on this.
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I don't know about the "we" part, since some who claim to be of Christ will be disappointed, So I would say, yes, there is one flock under one shepherd. Ezekiel 37:24
John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.
So we agree? One "pen" in heaven - the little flock. The other "pen" on earth - other sheep, brought together under the authority of Christ.
Ephesians 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.
You don't disagree with that, do you?
Afterward... Very important. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Do you agree that Christ will then hand the Kingdom over to God, and be in subjection to his God and father, so that God will be over all... including Christ?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You seem to be assuming a resurrection of the flesh...which is not the case.
Also, you seem to be separating heaven and earth for eternity...which is also not the case.
Both of these will have to be cleared up before continuing on.
Not exactly, nor is that exactly what he said.
Paul was breaking down (for explanation only) what is actually being joined together--that being the kingdoms of heaven and earth, and also that we should be as One, just as Christ and the Father are One. Which means it is actually the opposite of what you seem to believe. This is the confusion of all language at work. Genesis 11:7 Only by the Spirit, is all truth revealed.
So then, the "destroying of all dominion" does not leave Christ under the Father as it would appear to say, but that "all" are "in" God and of One authority which is of the Father. All of which is confirmed in Jesus' claim that He "and the Father are One."
I am already taugh by those who are born again.
They are described at Matthew 24:45.
Thus, I am fed by Jesus Christ, and have understanding of what the spirit says.
In fact, God's purpose is to have sons and daughters on the earth, and these are not his adopted sons. David did not ascend to heaven, but like Moses, Job, Jonah, Daniel, and others, who were not born again, these died with the hope of resurrection, to a new earth.
This is where millions... myself included, hope to live. Psalms 37:9-11, 29; Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10
Do you think we will see David, and Daniel again?
All these - all creation - all the nations of the earth, will be blessed by means of the seed of Abraham.
I am not a seed or heir of the kingdom, but as one of all groaning creation, and one of all nations of the earth, I eagerly look forward to being blessed through the children of God - his adopted sons.
The Bible says... Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.” Revelation 21:2-4
This is what I look forward to - to be one of those men, who will be blessed by means of the husband (Christ), and his bride (New Jerusalem - 144,000 co-heirs) - the kingdom of God.
When tears and pain... and death, will be gone forever. :)
How about you... What do you look forward to, in God's purpose (plan)?
Sorry, but, no thanks... your beliefs are not scripture. I follow what the scriptures say. Thank you.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, you missed "all truth." Apparently those who taught you were among those who slumber in the same type of blindness that was placed upon Israel until the times of the gentiles are complete, of which there are many generation of people just like yourself.
Nonetheless, this time was to come, and now has come...and I am not speaking to you from slumber or blindness. But this I also know, that your defenses are among that same number making up many generations--who like Israel are more than likely to reject the truth when it comes to them. This too is your choice to make. Hopefully for your sake, you have not only learned the errors, but have also learned from their mistakes.
As for me, I can only tell you the truth, and have.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
As I have already said--even the Pharisees followed the scriptures...which have been held in confusion by Him who was restrained until now. 2 Thessalonians 2:7
So be it.
It doesn't appear as though you read the OP... or maybe you did, but can't help that. Must be the spirit within you.. :)
When you are ready to have a Bible discussion, you can always start over... as long as the thread is still opened.
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