How can you KNOW that you are saved and part of the elect?

[Johann]

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



1) "These things have I written." (Greek tauta agrapsa) These things I wrote or "have written". The "these things" refers to the subject matter of the letter constituting evidences by which one might know and the world know that one was saved, and might have full joy. 1Jn_1:4.

2) "Unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God" (tois) unto or directed to or toward those trusting in the name of the heir or Son of God.

3) "That ye may know that ye have eternal life." (Greek hina) in order that, or for the purpose that, (eidete) you all may know, perceive, or comprehend “ye have, hold or possess eternal life." The terms know, known, and knoweth are used more than twenty times in 1Jo as verifying affirmations that the born Sons of God possessed life of eternal kind nature. It is just as possible for a saved person to know that he is saved as for an unsaved person to know he is unsaved and just as logical. 1Jn_3:2; 1Jn_3:14; 1Jn_4:7; 1Jn_4:13; 1Jn_4:15; 2Co_5:1.

RESTING ON CERTAINTIES

When that Christian and scientist, Sir Michael Faraday, was dying, some journalists questioned him as to his speculations concerning the soul and death "Speculations!" said the dying man, in astonishment, 'I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."

- Gospel Trumpet

4) "And that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." "to believe" on is to rely, trust, or depend on the offers and promises of the Son of God. Joh_6:37; Mat_11:28-30. Joh_14:1-3; Heb_13:3-5; Heb_10:36-37; Rom_10:8-13.

That ye may know (hina eidēte). Purpose clause with hina and the second perfect active subjunctive of oida, to know with settled intuitive knowledge. He wishes them to have eternal life in Christ (Joh_20:31) and to know that they have it, but not with flippant superficiality (1Jn_2:3.).
Unto you that believe on (tois pisteuousin eis). Dative of the articular present active participle of pisteuō and eis as in 1Jn_5:10. For this use of onoma (name) with pisteuō see 1Jn_3:23; Joh_2:23.

1Jn_5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.


We are of God (ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐσμέν)
For the phrase εἷναι ἐκ to be from, see on Joh_1:46. For ἐσμέν we are, see on 1Jn_3:1. John expresses the relation of believers to God by the following phrases: To be born or begotten of God, γεννηθῆναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (1Jn_5:1; 1Jn_2:29; 1Jn_4:7): denoting the initial communication of the new life. To be of God, εἷναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (Joh_8:47; 1Jn_3:10; 1Jn_4:6): denoting the essential connection in virtue of the new life. Child of God, τέκνον Θεοῦ (Joh_1:12; 1Jn_3:1, 1Jn_3:10): denoting the relation established by the new life.
World (κόσμος)
See on Joh_1:9.
Lieth (κεῖται)
The word is stronger than ἐστι is, indicating the passive, unprogressive state in the sphere of Satan's influence. “While we are from God, implying a birth and a proceeding forth, and a change of state, the κόσμος the world, all the rest of mankind, remains in the hand of the evil one” (Alford).
In wickedness (ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ)
Rev., better, in the evil one. The expression to lie in has a parallel in Sophocles' “Antigone:”
ἐν ὑμῖν γὰρ ὡς Θεῷ
κείμεθα τλάμονες
“Wretched we lie in you as in a god” (247).


1) "And we know that we are of God." He who is saved can know, be assured that he is saved, and know who his earthly father is. Experimentally, personally, one can know that he is saved, a child of God. Testamentarily, he can know he is saved by the inner witness of God's Spirit, and thru evidence of changed lives he can know that he and others are saved.

Ah! The inner witness...what is that?

Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1) "The Spirit itself," (auto to pneuma) "The Spirit himself (itself);" the indwelling Spirit in the believer, 1Jn_4:13; Joh_16:8-11; Eph_1:5; Eph_1:13-14; 2Co_1:22; 2Co_5:5.

2) "Beareth witness with our spirit," (summarteurei to Pneumati hemon) "witnesses in harmony with our spirit," or tells our spirit, bears testimony by the fruit of peace and joy that he brings to our spirits, our consciousness of will and affection for God and holiness, Gal_5:22-23; Rom_5:5.

3) "That we are the children of God," (hoti esmen Tekna theou) "that we are (now exist as) children of God," not merely candidates for childhood to him, 1Jn_5:10; 1Jn_5:13. One does not have to wait till he dies to become a child of God or to know that he is a child of God, Joh_1:11-12; 1Jn_3:1-2; 1Jn_3:10; Gal_3:26.


Do you have this inner witness?

 

[Ziggy]

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

There are some that don't know God, some that just say they know God but really don't, and there are some that know they know God and are known of him.
I don't believe there ever was a time I didn't know about God. There were many times in my life when I professed to know him, but still went my own way doing my own thing. And then one day, I knew I knew God, and that he knew me.
I believe this "knowing" I was born with but it needed to be cultivated and take root.
I know what eternal life is because I know the eternal God that gives me life.
And this life in me came from him who is eternal.

Back in the early church as it is today there was so much paganism and false gods. Nobody really knew God the creator.
Even Paul poited this out when he came across a statue with the name "to the unknown God"
And then all of Ephesians which bowed down to the goddess Diana.
I don't believe the Jews who were in "Moses" seat in those days were really teaching anything about the true God.
They made themselves god instead.
So how could one know eternal life without knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent to be a witness for God?

They were truly in the dark with no light of truth in it.
We're heading there...
They are trying to remove God from the world and replace it with Hollywood and Disneyland and all these perverted agendas.
To make us forget God.

BUT WE WILL NEVER LET THEM FORGET!

1Co 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
Hugs

 

[Johann]

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

There are some that don't know God, some that just say they know God but really don't, and there are some that know they know God and are known of him.
I don't believe there ever was a time I didn't know about God. There were many times in my life when I professed to know him, but still went my own way doing my own thing. And then one day, I knew I knew God, and that he knew me.
I believe this "knowing" I was born with but it needed to be cultivated and take root.
I know what eternal life is because I know the eternal God that gives me life.
And this life in me came from him who is eternal.

Back in the early church as it is today there was so much paganism and false gods. Nobody really knew God the creator.
Even Paul poited this out when he came across a statue with the name "to the unknown God"
And then all of Ephesians which bowed down to the goddess Diana.
I don't believe the Jews who were in "Moses" seat in those days were really teaching anything about the true God.
They made themselves god instead.
So how could one know eternal life without knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent to be a witness for God?

They were truly in the dark with no light of truth in it.
We're heading there...
They are trying to remove God from the world and replace it with Hollywood and Disneyland and all these perverted agendas.
To make us forget God.

BUT WE WILL NEVER LET THEM FORGET!

1Co 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
Hugs

Well done, good and faithful warrior

 

[farouk]

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

There are some that don't know God, some that just say they know God but really don't, and there are some that know they know God and are known of him.
I don't believe there ever was a time I didn't know about God. There were many times in my life when I professed to know him, but still went my own way doing my own thing. And then one day, I knew I knew God, and that he knew me.
I believe this "knowing" I was born with but it needed to be cultivated and take root.
I know what eternal life is because I know the eternal God that gives me life.
And this life in me came from him who is eternal.

Back in the early church as it is today there was so much paganism and false gods. Nobody really knew God the creator.
Even Paul poited this out when he came across a statue with the name "to the unknown God"
And then all of Ephesians which bowed down to the goddess Diana.
I don't believe the Jews who were in "Moses" seat in those days were really teaching anything about the true God.
They made themselves god instead.
So how could one know eternal life without knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent to be a witness for God?

They were truly in the dark with no light of truth in it.
We're heading there...
They are trying to remove God from the world and replace it with Hollywood and Disneyland and all these perverted agendas.
To make us forget God.

BUT WE WILL NEVER LET THEM FORGET!

1Co 16:13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.
Hugs

@Ziggy John 17 is such a joyful, searching passage for the believer! :)

 

[farouk]

John's First Epistle is also very searching; and the theme of assurance is strong: 'we know' seem to be keywords.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



1) "These things have I written." (Greek tauta agrapsa) These things I wrote or "have written". The "these things" refers to the subject matter of the letter constituting evidences by which one might know and the world know that one was saved, and might have full joy. 1Jn_1:4.

2) "Unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God" (tois) unto or directed to or toward those trusting in the name of the heir or Son of God.

3) "That ye may know that ye have eternal life." (Greek hina) in order that, or for the purpose that, (eidete) you all may know, perceive, or comprehend “ye have, hold or possess eternal life." The terms know, known, and knoweth are used more than twenty times in 1Jo as verifying affirmations that the born Sons of God possessed life of eternal kind nature. It is just as possible for a saved person to know that he is saved as for an unsaved person to know he is unsaved and just as logical. 1Jn_3:2; 1Jn_3:14; 1Jn_4:7; 1Jn_4:13; 1Jn_4:15; 2Co_5:1.

RESTING ON CERTAINTIES

When that Christian and scientist, Sir Michael Faraday, was dying, some journalists questioned him as to his speculations concerning the soul and death "Speculations!" said the dying man, in astonishment, 'I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."

- Gospel Trumpet

4) "And that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." "to believe" on is to rely, trust, or depend on the offers and promises of the Son of God. Joh_6:37; Mat_11:28-30. Joh_14:1-3; Heb_13:3-5; Heb_10:36-37; Rom_10:8-13.

That ye may know (hina eidēte). Purpose clause with hina and the second perfect active subjunctive of oida, to know with settled intuitive knowledge. He wishes them to have eternal life in Christ (Joh_20:31) and to know that they have it, but not with flippant superficiality (1Jn_2:3.).
Unto you that believe on (tois pisteuousin eis). Dative of the articular present active participle of pisteuō and eis as in 1Jn_5:10. For this use of onoma (name) with pisteuō see 1Jn_3:23; Joh_2:23.

1Jn_5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.


We are of God (ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐσμέν)
For the phrase εἷναι ἐκ to be from, see on Joh_1:46. For ἐσμέν we are, see on 1Jn_3:1. John expresses the relation of believers to God by the following phrases: To be born or begotten of God, γεννηθῆναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (1Jn_5:1; 1Jn_2:29; 1Jn_4:7): denoting the initial communication of the new life. To be of God, εἷναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (Joh_8:47; 1Jn_3:10; 1Jn_4:6): denoting the essential connection in virtue of the new life. Child of God, τέκνον Θεοῦ (Joh_1:12; 1Jn_3:1, 1Jn_3:10): denoting the relation established by the new life.
World (κόσμος)
See on Joh_1:9.
Lieth (κεῖται)
The word is stronger than ἐστι is, indicating the passive, unprogressive state in the sphere of Satan's influence. “While we are from God, implying a birth and a proceeding forth, and a change of state, the κόσμος the world, all the rest of mankind, remains in the hand of the evil one” (Alford).
In wickedness (ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ)
Rev., better, in the evil one. The expression to lie in has a parallel in Sophocles' “Antigone:”
ἐν ὑμῖν γὰρ ὡς Θεῷ
κείμεθα τλάμονες
“Wretched we lie in you as in a god” (247).


1) "And we know that we are of God." He who is saved can know, be assured that he is saved, and know who his earthly father is. Experimentally, personally, one can know that he is saved, a child of God. Testamentarily, he can know he is saved by the inner witness of God's Spirit, and thru evidence of changed lives he can know that he and others are saved.

Ah! The inner witness...what is that?

Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1) "The Spirit itself," (auto to pneuma) "The Spirit himself (itself);" the indwelling Spirit in the believer, 1Jn_4:13; Joh_16:8-11; Eph_1:5; Eph_1:13-14; 2Co_1:22; 2Co_5:5.

2) "Beareth witness with our spirit," (summarteurei to Pneumati hemon) "witnesses in harmony with our spirit," or tells our spirit, bears testimony by the fruit of peace and joy that he brings to our spirits, our consciousness of will and affection for God and holiness, Gal_5:22-23; Rom_5:5.

3) "That we are the children of God," (hoti esmen Tekna theou) "that we are (now exist as) children of God," not merely candidates for childhood to him, 1Jn_5:10; 1Jn_5:13. One does not have to wait till he dies to become a child of God or to know that he is a child of God, Joh_1:11-12; 1Jn_3:1-2; 1Jn_3:10; Gal_3:26.


Do you have this inner witness?

All who have trusted in the death and resurrection of jesus for their sin have the Holy Spirit and thus this inner witness that we are the children of God.

doubts and uncertainty come in usually in three ways:

1. Being immature in the faith and the Word. This is solved by growing as a believer
2. Attacks from our three enemies, the world, human nature and the devils.
3. Living in unconfessed sin. When we do not practice 1 john 1:9 we harden our hearts against the voice of the Spirit assuring and confirming we are the children of God. Instead of Him having a "convincing" ministry in our heart, He has a convicting ministry. While living this way we lose our confidence because it is clouded/blocked by our unconfessed sin.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well that is an easy one to know . TRUST IN WHAT JESUS DID . LEARN HIM WELL and make sure
none follows another version of said JESUS . SIMPLY BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
That is how I KNOW i am saved . JESUS CHRIST . YEAH , TRUST IN HIM . HE did all that was necessary
for us to be saved . Take it to the celestial bank . BUT Do be on gaurd for many do preach
another jesus and that one cannot save . THUS get in those bibles and learn the biblical one very well
learn what the apostels also taught very well .

 

[Johann]

@Ziggy John 17 is such a joyful, searching passage for the believer! :)

@Ziggy, the Oral law was already in existence in Jesus time, they taught the commandments and precepts of the Oral law, not the Torah.

 

[Johann]

All who have trusted in the death and resurrection of jesus for their sin have the Holy Spirit and thus this inner witness that we are the children of God.

doubts and uncertainty come in usually in three ways:

1. Being immature in the faith and the Word. This is solved by growing as a believer
2. Attacks from our three enemies, the world, human nature and the devils.
3. Living in unconfessed sin. When we do not practice 1 john 1:9 we harden our hearts against the voice of the Spirit assuring and confirming we are the children of God. Instead of Him having a "convincing" ministry in our heart, He has a convicting ministry. While living this way we lose our confidence because it is clouded/blocked by our unconfessed sin.

@ronald, the majority of the kosmos do not believe in the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus..what does it mean, biblically, to be born from above?
Secondly, what is the "inner witness?"
What must/dei sinners do to obtain life eternal, since NO one can come to Jesus or the Father UNLESS they are drawn?

Thanks
Johann

 

[Johann]

Well that is an easy one to know . TRUST IN WHAT JESUS DID . LEARN HIM WELL and make sure
none follows another version of said JESUS . SIMPLY BELIEVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
That is how I KNOW i am saved . JESUS CHRIST . YEAH , TRUST IN HIM . HE did all that was necessary
for us to be saved . Take it to the celestial bank . BUT Do be on gaurd for many do preach
another jesus and that one cannot save . THUS get in those bibles and learn the biblical one very well
learn what the apostels also taught very well .

Hmm...there are 1,050 Imperatives recorded in scripture, did you know that?
By the "correct" bible I assume the KJV?
How many epistles are there in scripture..and as to the heteros Y'howshua/Jesus or angellion...

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Serious stuff, since this gospel is not ours but God's...
1) "But though we," (alla kai ean hemeis) "But even if we; to concede any might err from the truth Paul includes himself and his missionary colleagues in the hypothetical "we".

2) "Or an angel from heaven," (e angelos eks ouranos) "or an angel out of (come from) heaven," for even angels (fallen angels) still lie to men, 1Ki_13:18; Spirits are to be tested, by the Word, whether they be in harmony with the Word of God, 1Jn_4:1.

3) "Preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you," (euangelisetai (humin) par' ho euangelisametha humin) "should preach a gospel (to you all) beside (different in kind from) what we preached to you all," Deu_12:32; Jos_1:7; Pro_30:7.

4) "Let him be accursed," (anathema esto) "Let him be (as) a curse," or accursed; Avoid him like a leper or contagious disease, have no close contact with him, 1Co_16:22; Deu_4:2; Rev_22:18-19.


Serious, serious thought provoking words penned in scripture...Perfect Tense...

Shalom

Johann

 

[friend of]

1 John 5:13 is a favorite of mine.

 

[Johann]

1 John 5:13 is a favorite of mine.

1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jn 5:13 Ταῦτα These Things G5023 D-APN ἔγραψα I Wrote G1125 V-AAI-1S ὑμῖν To You G5213 P-2DP τοῖς Who G3588 T-DPM πιστεύουσιν Believe G4100 V-PAP-DPM,
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: Present
Voice: Active
Mood: Participle
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Plural
Gender: Masculine

εἰς On G1519 PREP τὸ The G3588 T-ASN ὄνομα Name G3686 N-ASN τοῦ Of The G3588 T-GSM υἱοῦ Son G5207 N-GSM τοῦ G3588 T-GSM θεοῦ Of God, G2316 N-GSM ἵνα That G2443 CONJ εἰδῆτε Ye May Know G1492
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: peRfect<-
Voice: Active
Mood: Subjunctive
Person: second [you+]
Number: Plural

ὅτι That G3754 CONJ ζωὴν Life G2222 N-ASF ἔχετε Ye Have G2192 V-PAI-2P
Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: Present
Voice: Active
Mood: Indicative
Person: second [you+]
Number: Plural

αἰώνιον Eternal, G166 A-ASF καὶ And G2532 CONJ ἵνα That G2443 CONJ πιστεύητε Ye May Believe G4100 V-PAS-2P εἰς On G1519 PREP τὸ The G3588 T-ASN ὄνομα Name G3686 N-ASN τοῦ Of The G3588 T-GSM ὑιοῦ Son G5207 N-GSM τοῦ G3588 T-GSM Θεοῦ, Of God G2316 N-GSM

Powerful portion of scripture right here

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@ronald, the majority of the kosmos do not believe in the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus..what does it mean, biblically, to be born from above?
Secondly, what is the "inner witness?"
What must/dei sinners do to obtain life eternal, since NO one can come to Jesus or the Father UNLESS they are drawn?

Thanks
Johann

To be born from above is what Paul said in 2 Cor. 5:17

2 Corinthians 5:17
King James Version

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And Jesus Himself said:

John 3:5-6
King James Version

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


We are made a brand new creature who as Paul also said is being conformed tro teh image of Jesus.

The inner witness is this:

Romans 8:14-16
King James Version

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


It is the Holy Spirit confirming to our spirit that we are the children of God!

To obtain eternal life you must receive Jesus as your Savior! That means you trust in His death and physical resurrection as the complete price to pay for your sin debt before God!

The very fact you are inquiring can be the very fact you are being drawn. Trust HIm, yield to Him and receive life eternal!

 

[Johann]

To be born from above is what Paul said in 2 Cor. 5:17

2 Corinthians 5:17
King James Version

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

And Jesus Himself said:

John 3:5-6
King James Version

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


We are made a brand new creature who as Paul also said is being conformed tro teh image of Jesus.

The inner witness is this:

Romans 8:14-16
King James Version

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


It is the Holy Spirit confirming to our spirit that we are the children of God!

To obtain eternal life you must receive Jesus as your Savior! That means you trust in His death and physical resurrection as the complete price to pay for your sin debt before God!

The very fact you are inquiring can be the very fact you are being drawn. Trust HIm, yield to Him and receive life eternal!

Thank you Ronald

 

[Johann]

Thank you Ronald

Thank you Ronald, let me know if you have receive this.

 

[Ziggy]

@Ziggy, the Oral law was already in existence in Jesus time, they taught the commandments and precepts of the Oral law, not the Torah.

Whenever the Saducees and Pharisees questioned Jesus, he would always refer to what was written in the law.
If they had made a change to what is written, then he would point it out.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mar 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

This is probably a good place where the verse:
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Would be used.

Although Christians share the same conundrum:
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

We don't really know what was spoken face to face. Well maybe some scholars do, but simple folk like me only use the epistles.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I can't find the word "tradition" in the OT.

paradosis

1. giving up, giving over
   
   1. the act of giving up
      
      
   2. the surrender of cities
      
2. a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.
   
   
   1. objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching
      
      
   2. of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence
   3. From:
   4. παρά (it neglects elision before proper names beginning with a vowel, and (at least in Tdf.s text) before some other words; see Tdf Proleg., p. 95, cf. Winers Grammar, § 5, 1 a.; Buttmann, 10), a preposition indicating close proximity, with various modifications corresponding to the various cases with which it is joined; cf. Viger. editionm Herm., p. 643ff; Matthiae, § 588; Bernhardy (1829), p. 255ff; Kühner, § 440; Krüger, § 68, 34-36. It is joined:
   5. I. with the genitive; and as in Greek prose writings always with the genitive of a person, to denote that a thing proceeds from. the side or the vicinity of one, or from one's sphere of power, or from one's wealth or store,

I don't know how to get rid of extra bullets. 3,4 and 5 shouldn't be there... anywho
there is that word genitive again..

genitive
jĕn′ĭ-tĭv
adjective

1. Of, relating to, or being the grammatical case expressing possession, measurement, or source.
2. Of or relating to an affix or construction, such as a prepositional phrase, characteristic of the genitive case.

nevermind..

So does that mean they were basically re-wording what was written to fit their own understanding?
Jesus talks a lot about their traditions, and he gets questioned for them too.

Now I notice these are the scribes or "lawyers" and the Pharisees. These are the ones that determine what the law says?
Although I believe God gave Moses judges for that... I could be wrong.

Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Jesus didn't deny that his disciples didn't wash their hands before eating. He simply said, what for?

So we see here the tradition of the elders and the commandment of God coming into a conflict.

I don't understand why we are told to hold to traditions by word in the NT as well.
And what are those? And who said them? And how reliable are they? Can they be verified with scripture?

Soooo many questions.
LOL
Hugs

 

[Johann]

Whenever the Saducees and Pharisees questioned Jesus, he would always refer to what was written in the law.
If they had made a change to what is written, then he would point it out.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mar 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

This is probably a good place where the verse:
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Would be used.

Although Christians share the same conundrum:
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

We don't really know what was spoken face to face. Well maybe some scholars do, but simple folk like me only use the epistles.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

I can't find the word "tradition" in the OT.

paradosis

1. giving up, giving over
   1. the act of giving up
      
      
   2. the surrender of cities
2. a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.
   
   1. objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching
      
      
   2. of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence
   3. From:
   4. παρά (it neglects elision before proper names beginning with a vowel, and (at least in Tdf.s text) before some other words; see Tdf Proleg., p. 95, cf. Winers Grammar, § 5, 1 a.; Buttmann, 10), a preposition indicating close proximity, with various modifications corresponding to the various cases with which it is joined; cf. Viger. editionm Herm., p. 643ff; Matthiae, § 588; Bernhardy (1829), p. 255ff; Kühner, § 440; Krüger, § 68, 34-36. It is joined:
   5. I. with the genitive; and as in Greek prose writings always with the genitive of a person, to denote that a thing proceeds from. the side or the vicinity of one, or from one's sphere of power, or from one's wealth or store,

I don't know how to get rid of extra bullets. 3,4 and 5 shouldn't be there... anywho
there is that word genitive again..

genitive
jĕn′ĭ-tĭv
adjective

1. Of, relating to, or being the grammatical case expressing possession, measurement, or source.
2. Of or relating to an affix or construction, such as a prepositional phrase, characteristic of the genitive case.

nevermind..

So does that mean they were basically re-wording what was written to fit their own understanding?
Jesus talks a lot about their traditions, and he gets questioned for them too.

Now I notice these are the scribes or "lawyers" and the Pharisees. These are the ones that determine what the law says?
Although I believe God gave Moses judges for that... I could be wrong.

Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Jesus didn't deny that his disciples didn't wash their hands before eating. He simply said, what for?

So we see here the tradition of the elders and the commandment of God coming into a conflict.

I don't understand why we are told to hold to traditions by word in the NT as well.
And what are those? And who said them? And how reliable are they? Can they be verified with scripture?

Soooo many questions.
LOL
Hugs

Lol! you are a refreshing "breeze" Ziggy...should you wish, we can start a conversation, I don't know how to start a conversation, too many bells and whistles and I have joined up yesterday?
You know anything about the Talmuds, Babylonian and Jerusalem, the Rambamic writings, the Mishna and Midrash,ancient rabbinical writings?..and much more, might I add...I will go and look for my lost shoe lost in battle, my sword is a bit blunt and I cannot turn my back, the panoplia of Elohim cannot cover that part since a soldier for Christ dare not turn his back.

Shalom, a cup of strong coffee is a must.

Johan/Yochanan

 

[Ziggy]

Lol! you are a refreshing "breeze" Ziggy...should you wish, we can start a conversation, I don't know how to start a conversation, too many bells and whistles and I have joined up yesterday?
You know anything about the Talmuds, Babylonian and Jerusalem, the Rambamic writings, the Mishna and Midrash,ancient rabbinical writings?..and much more, might I add...I will go and look for my lost shoe lost in battle, my sword is a bit blunt and I cannot turn my back, the panoplia of Elohim cannot cover that part since a soldier for Christ dare not turn his back.

Shalom, a cup of strong coffee is a must.

Johan/Yochanan

I only know what I read in the bible and what I see happening in the world around me.
I barely made it through 6th grade public school. Became a mom at 14. Got married at 18. Worked my butt off in the printing industry as a machine operator for at least 15 years. Got divorced and remarried and went over the road trucking for the next 10 years.
If I was still married, I'd be a widow.
So my life has been caught up in the worldy things for most my life.
I'll be 58 in 8 days. Became disabled with a blockage to my main artery towards the end of those trucking years.
Lost my home and property 6 years ago to a Catagory 5 hurricane in Florida. Moved to my dad's place in Maine.
Where I have been now living by myself with enough time to actually look at things lol.
I don't know much about anything, but I love investigating and learning about everything.
And some things taste good and some things taste rotten to the core. And I seen a lot I wish I'd never seen, and probably not enough of what I'd like to see.
I watch a lot of history documentaries. Just the overviews.
But more than all of these, is what's in the heart. I believe this matters more than all the writings or documentaries or movies in the world.
I believe being good and being kind, is better than reading about being good and being kind.
Life is a doing. And if I were able I would be doing more.

So I can't say that I know or have read anything other than what I read in the bible.
But I'm always open to listening and trying to understand how all of everything fits into God's plan for us.
I think my bottom line is this:
We're all in this boat together. Whether we be "clean" or "unclean" animals, there is only one Ark.
And if we miss that boat, then we have no one else to blame but ourselves.

Lambano says he likes Chock full of nuts Cuban dark roast. I never tried it, but here's a cup.
I hope it's strong enough

Hugs

 

[amigo de christo]

Its TIME to praise the glorious Lord . Let all that has breath praise and thank the Lord .

 

[quietthinker]

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



1) "These things have I written." (Greek tauta agrapsa) These things I wrote or "have written". The "these things" refers to the subject matter of the letter constituting evidences by which one might know and the world know that one was saved, and might have full joy. 1Jn_1:4.

2) "Unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God" (tois) unto or directed to or toward those trusting in the name of the heir or Son of God.

3) "That ye may know that ye have eternal life." (Greek hina) in order that, or for the purpose that, (eidete) you all may know, perceive, or comprehend “ye have, hold or possess eternal life." The terms know, known, and knoweth are used more than twenty times in 1Jo as verifying affirmations that the born Sons of God possessed life of eternal kind nature. It is just as possible for a saved person to know that he is saved as for an unsaved person to know he is unsaved and just as logical. 1Jn_3:2; 1Jn_3:14; 1Jn_4:7; 1Jn_4:13; 1Jn_4:15; 2Co_5:1.

RESTING ON CERTAINTIES

When that Christian and scientist, Sir Michael Faraday, was dying, some journalists questioned him as to his speculations concerning the soul and death "Speculations!" said the dying man, in astonishment, 'I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."

- Gospel Trumpet

4) "And that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." "to believe" on is to rely, trust, or depend on the offers and promises of the Son of God. Joh_6:37; Mat_11:28-30. Joh_14:1-3; Heb_13:3-5; Heb_10:36-37; Rom_10:8-13.

That ye may know (hina eidēte). Purpose clause with hina and the second perfect active subjunctive of oida, to know with settled intuitive knowledge. He wishes them to have eternal life in Christ (Joh_20:31) and to know that they have it, but not with flippant superficiality (1Jn_2:3.).
Unto you that believe on (tois pisteuousin eis). Dative of the articular present active participle of pisteuō and eis as in 1Jn_5:10. For this use of onoma (name) with pisteuō see 1Jn_3:23; Joh_2:23.

1Jn_5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.


We are of God (ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐσμέν)
For the phrase εἷναι ἐκ to be from, see on Joh_1:46. For ἐσμέν we are, see on 1Jn_3:1. John expresses the relation of believers to God by the following phrases: To be born or begotten of God, γεννηθῆναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (1Jn_5:1; 1Jn_2:29; 1Jn_4:7): denoting the initial communication of the new life. To be of God, εἷναι ἐκ τοῦ Θεοῦ (Joh_8:47; 1Jn_3:10; 1Jn_4:6): denoting the essential connection in virtue of the new life. Child of God, τέκνον Θεοῦ (Joh_1:12; 1Jn_3:1, 1Jn_3:10): denoting the relation established by the new life.
World (κόσμος)
See on Joh_1:9.
Lieth (κεῖται)
The word is stronger than ἐστι is, indicating the passive, unprogressive state in the sphere of Satan's influence. “While we are from God, implying a birth and a proceeding forth, and a change of state, the κόσμος the world, all the rest of mankind, remains in the hand of the evil one” (Alford).
In wickedness (ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ)
Rev., better, in the evil one. The expression to lie in has a parallel in Sophocles' “Antigone:”
ἐν ὑμῖν γὰρ ὡς Θεῷ
κείμεθα τλάμονες
“Wretched we lie in you as in a god” (247).


1) "And we know that we are of God." He who is saved can know, be assured that he is saved, and know who his earthly father is. Experimentally, personally, one can know that he is saved, a child of God. Testamentarily, he can know he is saved by the inner witness of God's Spirit, and thru evidence of changed lives he can know that he and others are saved.

Ah! The inner witness...what is that?

Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1) "The Spirit itself," (auto to pneuma) "The Spirit himself (itself);" the indwelling Spirit in the believer, 1Jn_4:13; Joh_16:8-11; Eph_1:5; Eph_1:13-14; 2Co_1:22; 2Co_5:5.

2) "Beareth witness with our spirit," (summarteurei to Pneumati hemon) "witnesses in harmony with our spirit," or tells our spirit, bears testimony by the fruit of peace and joy that he brings to our spirits, our consciousness of will and affection for God and holiness, Gal_5:22-23; Rom_5:5.

3) "That we are the children of God," (hoti esmen Tekna theou) "that we are (now exist as) children of God," not merely candidates for childhood to him, 1Jn_5:10; 1Jn_5:13. One does not have to wait till he dies to become a child of God or to know that he is a child of God, Joh_1:11-12; 1Jn_3:1-2; 1Jn_3:10; Gal_3:26.


Do you have this inner witness?

Assurance is the inherent promise....for God cannot and does not lie.
The angels declaration to the shepherds in Bethlehem was for all men. Will all men believe this?.....unfortunately not!