The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

[ewq1938]

You're arguing against the doctrine of Amillennialism.

Any part of Amillennialism can easily be refuted. It is an unbiblical doctrine.

 

[GEN2REV]

Any part of Amillennialism can easily be refuted. It is an unbiblical doctrine.

Not any part of Premillennialism can be proven. It is an unbiblical doctrine.

 

[robert derrick]

Would your explain in more detail what you mean by...."there will be saints on the earth at this time"...and "never to the unconfessed stangers of the earth"?

- at what "time" are you referring to?
- in "unconfessed strangers" are you referring to those left behind in a pre-mil "rapture?​

What has this got to do with the OP titled "The Israel of God - Children of the Promised Seed"?

Would your explain in more detail what you mean by...."there will be saints on the earth at this time"...

The resurrection of the church will be towards the very end of the last great tribulation on earth, at the last midnight hour:

(Rev 14:6-7,11-12)
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them

and "never to the unconfessed stangers of the earth"?

Since the warning the Lord coming as a thief in the night is only to His people, then to include that warning with the gathering of the wicked to battle, means His people will still be on earth and warned by the Scripture not to join them.

All Revelation warfare of the beast against the saints is by deception and recruitment by other means, which is the nature of all successful warfare.

And even at the last hour of judgement, the remaining elect saints will need remain watching, so as not to be caught unawares at His coming again.

- at what "time" are you referring to?

The last hour of the great tribulation on earth immediately before His return.

- in "unconfessed strangers" are you referring to those left behind in a pre-mil "rapture?

Yes, very end of tribulation pre-mil resurrection and rapture of the church.

The answer to when the First resurrection of the church occurs in context of tribulation on earth, is knowing that great tribulation has been with God's people on earth since Cain persecuted and slew Abel, and the last days of such tribulation have been with us since Peter first preached the gospel of the cross:

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.

As well as Scripture in Hebrews:

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

Also confirmed by other apostles:

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come...Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

They were perilous times for the saints, with them resisting the truth and being mockers separating themselves from the the body of Christ.

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

We must also know there are two kinds of tribulation on earth:

The wrath of man upon the saints to purify them,

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

And the wrath of God upon the wicked to destroy them.

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile.

Scriptural history shows that most of the tribulation time on earth is upon the saints, which is long enough to work for their good. But the tribulation time for the wicked is at the very end, and comes suddenly upon them as did the flood and also the Lord's second coming:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

It was the same at the cross, where Jesus had been persecuted for years and ended in His death on the cross, until suddenly in a moment He rose again from the dead and destroyed Satan's power on earth once for all.

So it will be with the first resurrection of His church at the very end of the last great tribulation of saints on earth, which will then become a short and quick great tribulation of wrath of God upon all them that warred with his saints.

It will include a quick succession of plagues, like pre-landing bombardment to prep the earth, concluding in His lightening-fast and overwhelming invasion of brightness and power.

And while they are yet gathering to battle, there will still be saints killed in the Lord for refusing to do their service and join their ranks.

Like the last of the Israelites crossing the Red Sea floor, then came the sudden and complete destruction of Pharaoh and His armies.

 

[robert derrick]

,

- at what "time" are you referring to?
- in "unconfessed strangers" are you referring to those left behind in a pre-mil "rapture?​

What has this got to do with the OP titled "The Israel of God - Children of the Promised Seed"?[/QUOTE]
What has this got to do with the OP titled "The Israel of God - Children of the Promised Seed"?

Someone else brought it in, and the OP didn't ask to cut it off.

However, if a pre-trib argument is brought in, then that would matter much, because then the old saw about Revelation being all about 'softening up' the Jews would be made.

Which is false. It's all about purifying the Christian saints on earth, just has it has always been for the people of God, since the days of Abel.

 

[ewq1938]

Not any part of Premillennialism can be proven. It is an unbiblical doctrine.

That's false though. The first known Amillennialist opposed the canonization of Revelation. Obviously he didn't like what Revelation 20 says about the Millennium. To this day, Amillennialism rarely quotes from it.

 

[Timtofly]

If we all did that to scripture, how many different "heresies" like yours come out of scripture. How would you know truth if everyone did what you just did to scripture! Try preaching that one out to Jesus!
.un NO!

You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself. Since you have nothing to add from God's Word, I will stick with the reading of God's Word instead of human interpretation and opinion.

 

[GEN2REV]

That's false though. The first known Amillennialist opposed the canonization of Revelation. Obviously he didn't like what Revelation 20 says about the Millennium. To this day, Amillennialism rarely quotes from it.

And for very good reason.

That's because it is constantly taken out of its highly symbolic, signified, non-literal, non-linear, and completely unsupported-by-any-other-scripture, context by those who champion it as their battle cry for the preposterous false doctrine of Millennialism.

And no history about Amil or Premil, or who supports, or supported it, or who doesn't, makes any difference whatsoever. All that matters is that right now, today, the concept that Jesus will return, the earth will not be destroyed and will remain for 1,000 years while Jesus reigns upon it, etc. is an absolute LIE that cannot be proven by any scripture whatsoever in the Bible.

Rev. 20 is used to create the doctrine and no other scripture anywhere supports it.

That is the very definition of UN-sound doctrine; yet it is vomited from almost every lectern, on every TV church sermon, in every major church, from every mainstream pastor and preacher in America, and probably most of the world, today. It is a doctrine of demons and it is very popular upon the world stage.

And we all know who that stage belongs to.

 

[ewq1938]

Rev. 20 is used to create the doctrine and no other scripture anywhere supports it.

Wrong, it has plenty of support elsewhere.

Here are corroborations of the Premill interpretation of Rev 20's "a thousand years":




Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Christ speaks of them holding fast until he returns, his second coming.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After the end there will be saints who have power over the nations/gentiles!


Rev 2:27 And he (each overcoming saint) shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


So after the second coming, and after saints overcoming, and after "the end" there will be power given to the overcomers over the nations/gentiles in conjunction with a rule with a rod of iron (which breaks their organizations apart).

And of course there still needs to be a judgment day for the unsaved after this period of overcomers having "power over the nations" where there is "rule with a rod of iron".

Exactly what is found in chapters 19 and 20 of Revelation.

Same scriptures using some colored comments:


Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. (Christ speaks of the second coming, also seen in Rev 19)
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: (after the second coming the saints become overcomers, and AFTER THE END they are given power and rule over the nations/gentiles)
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Again, proof that "the end" is not the end. There is rule over the gentile nations AFTER the second coming and AFTER the "end".




Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (as seen in Rev 19 the second coming)
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (as seen in Rev 20 where some of the unsaved and satan live for a period of TIME, the thousand years)


Here also is corroboration of the Millennium where after the beast is destroyed by fire (same as in Rev 19 just prior to the Millennium) there are some beasts left alive to have their lives prolonged (for a thousand years no less), which is why satan and a large number of unsaved gentiles live through the 1000 years.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

The beast even has 3.5 years to reign over the saints, we see the same in Rev 13 about the beast overcoming the saints and having 42 months which is the same time length.




Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.



This predicts a period of time in this age, before the NHNE, where there shall be no more wars. This is another verse that corroborates Premill and the idea of a future period of time (the Millennium) before the NHNE that is peaceful and without war. Where in Amill can this war-less period of time exist within the latter days? Answer is, there is no room in Amill to have these verses fulfilled.


Isa 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Again, after the second coming, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion and in Jerusalem, we see a period of time where the unsaved wicked are alive before receiving their punishment. This is again a small glimpse of the Millennium period corroborating the Premill understanding of Rev 20.

 

[Moriah's Song]

You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself. Since you have nothing to add from God's Word, I will stick with the reading of God's Word instead of human interpretation and opinion.

1- "You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself." I would say that it would be wise for you to learn something about hermeneutics yourself Tim. The 144,000 is in no way those who are going to be on earth after the second coming. The ONLY time you see 144,000 mentioned is the 144,000 that are "in heaven".

The text:
Rev 14:1...Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him[Christ] a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. (Who are those 144,000? They are those whose name were written in the lambs book of life)

Rev 14:2...And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, ("from heaven" makes it clear that this scene is a heavelny scene)

Rev 14:3...and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand ...who had been redeemed from the earth.

a) before the throne...the throne can only mean the throne that is in heaven - not on earth. (Jesus never sat on a throne on earth. Heaven is where his throne will always be.)
b) the 144,000 clearly are those who were on earth but had been redeemed from the earth and are with the Lord. (The 144,000 is a figurative number that represents the OT believers and the NT believers that are/will be "in heaven" ---- the 12 tribes + 12 apostles x 1,000 = 144,000)
c) from the earth...the redeemed "from" the earth are those "in heaven" who now sing a new song of rejoicing before the throne that is in heaven.​

Rev 14:4...It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb,

d) the "redeemed" in heaven that follow the Lamb (Christ) are still "in heaven" and follow him wherever he goes "in heaven.​

Rev 14:5...and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless. (these can only be those whose sins have been forgiven by the blood of Jesus sacrifice on the cross.)

The 144k are the disciples during the period after the Second Coming.

No Tim - as seen above, they are NOT the wheat or the tares that wil "be on earth during any 1,000 year millennium!

I would suggest that "You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself. Since you have nothing to add from God's Word. Therefore, I will stick with the reading of God's Word instead of (your) human interpretation and opinion.

 

[Timtofly]

1- "You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself." I would say that it would be wise for you to learn something about hermeneutics yourself Tim. The 144,000 is in no way those who are going to be on earth after the seconcd coming. The ONLY time you see 144,000 mentioned is the 144,000 that are "in heaven".

The text:
Rev 14:1...Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him[Christ] a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. (Who are those 144,000? They are those whose name were written in the lambs book of life)

Rev 14:2...And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, ("from heaven" makes it clear that this scene is a heavelny scene)

Rev 14:3...and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand ...who had been redeemed from the earth.

a) before the throne...the throne can only mean the throne that is in heaven - not on earth. (Jesus never sat on a throne on earth. Heaven is where his throne will always be.)
b) the 144,000 clearly are those who were on earth but had been redeemed from the earth and are with the Lord. (The 144,000 is a figurative number that represents the OT believers and the NT believers that are/will be "in heaven" ---- the 12 tribes + 12 apostles x 1,000 = 144,000)
c) from the earth...the redeemed "from" the earth are those "in heaven" who now sing a new song of rejoicing before the throne that is in heaven.​

Rev 14:4...It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb,

d) the "redeemed" in heaven that follow the Lamb (Christ) are still "in heaven" and follow him wherever he goes "in heaven.​

Rev 14:5...and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless. (these can only be those whose sins have been forgiven by the blood of Jesus sacrifice on the cross.) No Tim - as seen above, they are NOT the wheat or the tares that wil "be on earth during any 1,000 year millennium!

I would suggest that "You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself. Since you have nothing to add from God's Word. Therefore, I will stick with the reading of God's Word instead of (your) human interpretation and opinion.

I never said the 144k were the wheat of Matthew 13, nor the sheep of Matthew 25. 3 separate groups of entirely different people chosen by God.

The 144k are on earth. They go through the tribulation on earth: Revelation 7

"holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

When are these 144k removed from the earth?

They are on the earth until no longer necessary during the sound of the 7th Trumpet. Then we see them on Mt. Zion in chapter 14, after the Trumpets and Thunders.

 

[Moriah's Song]

That "remnant" you are looking for are the 144k, the sheep from Matthew 25, and the wheat from Matthew 13. This is God's handpicked firstfruits to multiply during the Millennium like Noah's offspring multiplied after the Flood.

Tim's post #85....

I never said the 144k were the wheat of Matthew 13, nor the sheep of Matthew 25.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim's post #85....

3 separate groups. How many times to explain a remnant? The 144k are mentioned in Revelation 7 and 14. They are not the sheep mentioned in Matthew 25. The sheep are not the 144k. Neither the 144k nor the sheep are the wheat from Matthew 13. But all 3 unique groups make up the remnant of those coming out of the GT. The church does not go through the GT. The church was glorified and taken to Paradise prior to those 144k sealed after the 6th Seal. The sheep come after the 7th Seal is opened, and are not the 144k. The sheep are harvested, their souls removed from Adam's flesh, before the wheat is harvested. The wheat is from all the Nations on earth. The Sheep are those separated from the goats of Israel. The 144k are those disciples that follow Jesus the Prince around while the sheep and wheat is being harvested by the angels. 3 separate groups of those hand picked by God after the church is removed. None of them are the church in Paradise. The church is not on earth, until after the NHNE, over 1,000 years later.

I never once said they were a single group. 3 groups making up one remnant. The church is not distinguished into race, color, nor gender. But in the Trumpets and Thunders there are two distinct groups, and Jesus Himself has 144k disciples as an inner circle of redeemed firstfruits.

 

[Moriah's Song]

3 separate groups. How many times to explain a remnant?

That's an "oxymoron."
"a" = 1 group not 3 separate groups. That's a product of your own vivid imagination that is a false interpretaton of the wheat and the sheep and it's consdered to be a heresy.

 

[ewq1938]

1- "You are wise not to interpret Scripture yourself." I would say that it would be wise for you to learn something about hermeneutics yourself Tim. The 144,000 is in no way those who are going to be on earth after the seconcd coming. The ONLY time you see 144,000 mentioned is the 144,000 that are "in heaven".

They aren't in heaven. The Mt of Olives is outside of Earthly Jerusalem. There are no mountains in heaven. The harpers are playing harps and singing in heaven. The 144k are with Christ on Earth and are LEARNING the song, not singing it.

Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 

[Timtofly]

That's an "oxymoron."
"a" = 1 group not 3 separate groups. That's a product of your own vivid imagination that is a false interpretaton of the wheat and the sheep and it's consdered to be a heresy.

Many martyred for their faith were considered heretics by an apostate church. I am just pointing out that Jesus is the Word that explains the 144k. Jesus is the Word that explains the wheat in Matthew 13. Jesus is the Word that explains the sheep in Matthew 25. Do you think Jesus has a vivid imagination?

 

[Moriah's Song]

@ Timtofly

3 separate groups. How many times to explain a remnant?

Your entire theology that you have presented as a dispenstionsalist is contrary to God's overall plan of redemption that begain in Genesis 3:15. That "plan" continued through the OT with promises in the OT covenants as a foundation to build on until the final covenant of redemption by Christs' blood on the cross. After He had inaugurated the New, and final, eternal Covenant, that "eternal" covenant became the last covenant to be made to mankind. There is no more need for any millennium, no need for a new temple, (for Jesus is the temple) and no more sacrifices since Jesus was the Lamb that was sacrificed once and for all. In other words, the "church" (God's chosen people) originated in the Garden of Eden, climaxed in the ressurection of Christ and will be realized when Christ returns on Judgment Day and not before.

Sorry Tim, but God never intended for us to have to spend the amount of time that dispensationalist do to promote a complicated "theory" of drama that 100 theologians can't even agree on!

 

[Timtofly]

@ TimtoflyYour entire theology that you have presented as a dispenstionsalist is contrary to God's overall plan of redemption that begain in Genesis 3:15. That "plan" continued through the OT with promises in the OT covenants as a foundation to build on until the final covenant of redemption by Christs' blood on the cross. After He had inaugurated the New, and final, eternal Covenant, that "eternal" covenant became the last covenant to be made to mankind. There is no more need for any millennium, no need for a new temple, (for Jesus is the temple) and no more sacrifices since Jesus was the Lamb that was sacrificed once and for all. In other words, the "church" (God's chosen people) originated in the Garden of Eden, climaxed in the ressurection of Christ and will be realized when Christ returns on Judgment Day and not before.

Sorry Tim, but God never intended for us to have to spend the amount of time that dispensationalist do to promote a complicated "theory" of drama that 100 theologians can't even agree on!

Your proof is that the church has been in the Garden of Eden even through the Flood? Where is this Garden now?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Your proof is that the church has been in the Garden of Eden

Yes, in it's raw form,...
- God was the head of the "church of Paradise"...Gen. 2:15 - "the Lord God took the man and place him in the Garden of Eden to work it and watch over it."

- God was, and still is, the head of the "church" (ekklesia).
- Adam was the first "pastor of the "church"
- Eve was the first "member of the congregation in the wildernes."
- Eve was the "mother of all living." (Gen. 3:20)
- Sin enters the new "church" through Adam and Eve's disobedience.
- Adam and Eve tries to cover their sins by making for themselves "aprons of fig-leaves" (indicating that man cannot cover up their own sins.)
- Sins consequence...Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the Garden at the time of the evening breeze and they tried to hide themselves (The knowledge and confession of sin before God)
- God kills an animal as "the first sacrifice" (Thus the first animal that died was a sacrifice in blood, or Christ in a figure.)
- Coats of skins...It was God that made "coats of skins" (Only through the shed blood of the cross can sins be covered.)
- God curses the serpent but not the man or the woman.
- God drove them out from the Garden to prevent them from eating of the "tree of [eternal] life" that was at the center of the Garden.
- The first "offerings" of the "church family" were made by Cain and Abel but God only accepted Abel's animal sacrifice.
- Abel (a shepherd) was their "first-born son" just as Jesus was the first born son of Mary.​

even through the Flood?

Yes, even through the flood the line of Adam is continued through Noah, Abraham, David and then to Mary line (and step-father Joseph's line)

Where is this Garden now?

In heaven, where that "tree of life" was in the Garden of Eden but is now seen to be in "the New Jerusalem."

Rev 2:7...He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.'
Rev 22:2...through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14...Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:19...and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.​

That "tree of life" symbolizes that the "church" of all God's people originated in the Garden and ends in the garden. It never stopped growing and is the very message that Ephesians 2 is referring to that is of all God's remant - the body of Christ/Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, in it's raw form,...
- God was the head of the "church of Paradise"...Gen. 2:15 - "the Lord God took the man and place him in the Garden of Eden to work it and watch over it."

- God was, and still is, the head of the "church" (ekklesia).
- Adam was the first "pastor of the "church"
- Eve was the first "member of the congregation in the wildernes."
- Eve was the "mother of all living." (Gen. 3:20)
- Sin enters the new "church" through Adam and Eve's disobedience.
- Adam and Eve tries to cover their sins by making for themselves "aprons of fig-leaves" (indicating that man cannot cover up their own sins.)
- Sins consequence...Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the Garden at the time of the evening breeze and they tried to hide themselves (The knowledge and confession of sin before God)
- God kills an animal as "the first sacrifice" (Thus the first animal that died was a sacrifice in blood, or Christ in a figure.)
- Coats of skins...It was God that made "coats of skins" (Only through the shed blood of the cross can sins be covered.)
- God curses the serpent but not the man or the woman.
- God drove them out from the Garden to prevent them from eating of the "tree of [eternal] life" that was at the center of the Garden.
- The first "offerings" of the "church family" were made by Cain and Abel but God only accepted Abel's animal sacrifice.
- Abel (a shepherd) was their "first-born son" just as Jesus was the first born son of Mary.​

Yes, even through the flood the line of Adam is continued through Noah, Abraham, David and then to Mary line (and step-father Joseph's line)
In heaven, where that "tree of life" was in the Garden of Eden but is now seen to be in "the New Jerusalem."

Rev 2:7...He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.'
Rev 22:2...through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14...Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:19...and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.​

That "tree of life" symbolizes that the "church" of all God's people originated in the Garden and ends in the garden. It never stopped growing and is the very message that Ephesians 2 is referring to that is of all God's remant - the body of Christ/Jews and Gentiles.

So what then is the issue with the 144k, the sheep, and the wheat? You don't like the 1,000 years after the Second Coming?

 

[Moriah's Song]

So what then is the issue with the 144k, the sheep, and the wheat? You don't like the 1,000 years after the Second Coming?

You completely ignored my post and continue to dwell on the 144,000 and a 1,000 year millennium with sacrifices re-instated and in complete denial that my post showed that once Christ died and was resurrected, the temple in Jerusalem destroyed and the fact that there is NO mention of the 144,000 in the gospels or the epistles nor is there any mention of a 1,000 year millennium in the epistles either. You still keep your head in Revelations' drama and controversial symbolism rather than the superior message in the Garden of Eden, the historical event from the birth of Christ to his resurrection and the epistles as if they were irrelevant instead of the most important passages in scripture!!!!

Theologian Sam Storms, who was a devout dispensationalist Dallas theological seminary student was given a term paper project on Ephesians 2. He could not get past that text because it clearly brings the body of Christ together as both a Jew/Gentile Christian church during the first century. Because of that book, he was convicted by the Holy Spirit to deny his dispensational teachings from Dallas and he now speaks openly by saying that "reinstating sacrifices are an abomination to the Lord."

So after you read the entire book of Ephesians and you still cannot comprehend that there is no more need for a temple to be built for sacrifices to bring salvation to the Jews, and you still remain a devout dispensationalist, then we really have nothing to discuss.