Where/What Is Heaven
- Thread starter Bob Estey
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You make things so simple Bob. I encourage you to keep studying the bible, praying to God and serving God and his children.
I think the correct translation is found in the KJV or ASV, or a more literal one such as the YLT.
The Kingdom of God is "within", or "inside" you. This is what I believe Jesus actually taught, said, and what Luke recorded for us. And Luke did so under divine inspiration. There is no reason to change it to "midst".
The Gk text uses the word "εντος" and means "inside" and it's used only twice in the NT. Both times it means "within" or "inside". Here are it's two occurrences:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within (Gk "εντος") you.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within (Gk "εντος") the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
In Mat 23:26, Jesus is contrasting the "inside" of the cup vs. the "outside" of the cup. The Gk word "εντος" simply means "inside" for both Mat 23:26 and Luk 17:21.
Had Jesus meant "midst" (found in many modern translations) the Gk word "μεσου" would have been employed by Luke, rather than "εντος". Luke does use the word "μεσου" in Luk 17:11, a few verses earlier, where "μεσου" means "midst", and also in Luk 2:46, where Jesus is sitting in the "midst" of others.
However, "μεσου" is not the word that Jesus said or that Luke recorded in Luk 17:21. Luke used "εντος", having the meaning of: "within" or "inside". That Jesus spoke this to Pharisees shouldn't be a reason to change the translation of the text. It is what it is.
As for "where" inside: Although not specifically stated in the text, I believe the Kingdom of God resides within each and every person (soul): The Kingdom of God is within the spirit (the breath and image of God in man). Not the flesh.
However, the Kingdom of God cannot be spiritually seen or entered into, until the door to the spirit is opened by God, by grace (ie: regeneration, Joh 3:3 and 5). And when the door is opened you're then able to enter in through the faith of Christ.
I think Matthew 4:17 gives us a clue ("Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand").
I think that's a different thread. We've already had this line of discussion. You can't stop sinning before God until you've been perfected by God. Even pride and fear are sins, etc.
Yes, however, the change of mind needed to enter into the Kingdom is for those who are regenerated, not those of the flesh. The flesh cannot see the Kingdom within the spirit, hear Jesus' call to enter when the door is opened or even repent (change its way of thinking). It's simply not able to (1Co 2:14). Nor was it ever meant to. You must first be born again (regenerated).
My belief is that anyone that is not Jesus sins, even Paul suggested he was a sinner, because he knew better than to not say that he died daily.
1 Corinthians 15:30-31
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
People that don't think they sin are in need of repentance from that belief right away.
Jesus told us to repent (Matthew 4:17). He told us we have to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect (Matthew 5:48). We've all sinned but I'm not aware of anything in the Bible that says we can't stop sinning.
From your previous post it sounds to me that you think everything Jesus said was a commandment, and if we didn't do everything he said, we sinned. It is true that we should always do everything Jesus said, but I don't think everything he said was a commandment. I am only aware of the Ten Commandments and the two great commandments.
If you read Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 21:8, Jeremiah 4:4 and Luke 16:19-31. Are you saying God is throwing innocent people into the lake of fire. And that it is not describing sin?
I also prescribe to the idea that there are 7 deadly sins. This is a concept that was brought about by enlightened bible readers:
seven deadly sins, also called seven capital sins or seven cardinal sins, in Roman Catholic theology, the seven vices that spur other sins and further immoral behaviour. First enumerated by Pope Gregory I (the Great) in the 6th century and elaborated in the 13th century by St. Thomas Aquinas, they are (1) vainglory, or pride, (2) greed, or covetousness, (3) lust, or inordinate or illicit sexual desire, (4) envy, (5) gluttony, which is usually understood to include drunkenness, (6) wrath, or anger, and (7) sloth. Each of these can be overcome with the seven corresponding virtues of (1) humility, (2) charity, (3) chastity, (4) gratitude, (5) temperance, (6) patience, and (7) diligence.
@Bob Estey the 7 deadly sins probably comes from the idea of what I have been describing along with the idea that you can sin in your heart.
Read Matthew 5:28 and then reference Jeremiah 4:4
Read Matthew 5:28 and then reference Jeremiah 4:4
I believe the lake of fire is the circumstances we find ourselves in when we sin. When the Lord thinks we've learned our lesson, lets us out.
I don’t think the Bible references “seven deadly sins.” Jeremiah 31:33 (RSV) perfectly describes what happened to me:
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
I've experienced the consequences of sin. "Lake of fire" describes it well. Either way, I'd encourage you not to sin.
Davy
Well-Known Member
On another planet maybe? You know that would make God an alien, right?
Acts 17:27-30
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us:
28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
Not... really.
Many brethren are confused about this matter because they have failed to understand about the two separate dimensions of existence written of in God's Word.
1 Cor 15:48-52
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV
What's the "image of the earthy"? Our flesh body.
What's the "image of the heavenly" Paul taught? The "spiritual body", which is not made of flesh matter, but of Spirit.
Like Jesus said in John 3, that which is born flesh and of the flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is spirit.
Yet per Revelation, and also shown about Eden in Genesis, God once dwelt upon this earth, His abode of His Garden of Eden was here, which is where the Tree of Life was, and still is, with Him, in the Heavenly dimension, a separate dimension behind a veil which we cannot see (unless God allows it, like 2 Corinthians 12 and Isaiah 6).
How is that possible, for God (The Father) to live upon this earth with us, as He promised per Revelation 21? John said God is a Spirit, meaning He has no flesh body.
So when Jesus was pointing to the Kingdom of Heaven being in our 'midst', He was pointing to our 'spirit' inside our flesh which God gave us, and it returns back to Him, with our soul, at flesh death. BUT... when Jesus comes to start His reign, and eventually, The Father is going to return to live with us, literally, and that will be on this earth, with BOTH dimensions joined. How's that?
We are given examples in God's Word of angels (who have no flesh body) eating man's food, and walking upon this earth, while in their "image of the heavenly" bodies. Some like to add to God's Word as if they somehow put on flesh bodies to appear on earth, but that idea is nowhere written in God's Word. Even Lord Jesus appeared on earth to Abraham in His Spirit body before... He was born in the flesh through Mary's womb (see Genesis 18; end of John 8).
So HOW is the Kingdom manifest today, since Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected? Simple, it is INSIDE US, in our spirit with soul; not our flesh for our flesh is of this present world time and destined to perish forever. The "spiritual body" Paul taught is the type body of the world to come. It's old Jewish doctrines that try to hang on to the flesh body for the world to come when that goes directly against what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 5.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You mean The Father has no form, but is just some 'force' floating around inside everything? Do you realize that is what the pagans think about God?
The Father, even though He is a Spirit like Apostle John said, still He has an outward form and Likeness, that of man, because the image of man comes from Him per Genesis 1:26-27.
As for our soul, it definitely is NOT from material matter. It is a creation by God in that other dimension of the heavenly, likewise with our spirit. You do realize there is more than one dimension of existence written of in God's Word?
In John 3, Jesus told Nicodemus that which is born of the flesh and flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit.
At flesh death, our flesh body is cast off revealing our spiritual body with soul. Our spirit and soul can never be separated, but our spirit with soul can be separated from our flesh (2 Corinthians 5).
