Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?
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her prayers are all powerful of course but by the power of her son and the holy spirit
Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful!
I did not say it was cos she is God!
Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!
and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments
you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”
“My hour has not come”
The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2
and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11
Is Paul Divine?
Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!
I did not say it was cos she is God!
Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!
and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments
you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”
“My hour has not come”
The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2
and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11
Is Paul Divine?
Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I believe what the Bible says about Mary: that she was a young woman, probably a teenager, who became pregnant the first time by the Holy Spirit (but by Joseph in her other pregnancies), raised Jesus to maturity, then witnessed His crucifixion. After that she became John's adopted mother, meaning that John was expected to take care of her from that time on. The Scripture says nothing about her death. There is nothing in the Bible that says she has been resurrected or that she is in heaven. If that had occurred it surely would have been reported. That's it. Nothing more.
The rest of the misinformation has been created by the Catholic church because of the cultural need to create a goddess, the perfect woman and mother. a) It's contrary to Scripture and b) it creates a model for women that is impossible to live up to. (See "Marianismo").
Even though this is off-topic, the Mary myth is just one of many unscriptural additions to the truth found in the Bible -- God's Word -- and Jesus Christ -- the living Word.
Sola scriptura.
The rest of the misinformation has been created by the Catholic church because of the cultural need to create a goddess, the perfect woman and mother. a) It's contrary to Scripture and b) it creates a model for women that is impossible to live up to. (See "Marianismo").
Even though this is off-topic, the Mary myth is just one of many unscriptural additions to the truth found in the Bible -- God's Word -- and Jesus Christ -- the living Word.
Sola scriptura.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
"While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and brothers came and stood outside, asking to speak to him. Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.” To the one who had said this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother and who are my brothers?” And pointing toward his disciples he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:46-50, NET v2.1
That's how Scripture relates Jesus' attitude towards His mother (Mary) and His brothers once He was performing the works God asked Him to perform. Notice the disassociation from His natural mother and the association with those who believe in Him.
That's how Scripture relates Jesus' attitude towards His mother (Mary) and His brothers once He was performing the works God asked Him to perform. Notice the disassociation from His natural mother and the association with those who believe in Him.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
That's quoting scripture? Not much effort put into that is there? So you'd rather have us look up scripture so you don't have to?
Jim B
Well-Known Member
What is this in reference to? If it's one of my posts I try to include the applicable Scripture every time.
[QUOTE="Moriah's Song, post: 1252957, member: 12912
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”
Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.
Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.
Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.
Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.
Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”
Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.
Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.
Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.
Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.
Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Chuckle!!! Roman Catholics have a silly religious rationalization for everything!!!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
??????? ....On what? And WHY?
You don't seem to be here to learn. You seem to be here to turn Christians to the false worship of Maryolitry that you are obsessed with and of which Satan has its hold on all those "traditions" of the RCC.
Last edited:
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Matt 12:
[46] While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
[47] Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
[48] But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
[49] And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
[50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
This is interesting, a clue if you will.
Mary and Jesus’ naturally born brothers were simply like all other natural persons born in sin, like others in the community, who knew Jesus personally, heard others talking about Jesus, but all were not followers of Jesus’ teachings.
The day of this incident was a Sabbath day.
Matt 12:
[1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
[9] And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
* This is where Mary and Jesus’ brothers were STANDING WITHOUT the synagogue.
* Why was Mary and Jesus’ brothers NOT Observing the Sabbath Day, WITHIN the Synagogue...?
It’s a clue, like many others in Scripture. Mary was like any other natural born Earthling.
* Scripture reveals Mary BELIEVED in Jesus, BELIEVED He was the Lord Sent of God, to TEACH Gods TRUTH...
* But was NOT a FOLLOWER disciple of His Teachings.
* Nor was Mary and Jesus’ natural born brother siblings...revealed to be Observers of the Sabbath Day, INSIDE the Synagogue.
* We have other multiple Scriptures that reveal, BELIEVERS, who continue (endure) in BELIEF to the day of their Physical DEATH....SHALL THEN, become Saved.
* We KNOW, that continuing (enduring) IS by that person’s OWN “will-POWER’
* We KNOW, there are Multiple WARNINGS, to such persons’ BECAUSE of Evil Higher Powers of Demonic angels, and BECAUSE of Wicked Higher Powers of men, WHO are Everywhere....Consistently Influencing people, to sway AWAY from God, AND Look TO THEM: MAKE ALLEGIANCE TO THEM:
FOR help, aid, safety, peace, saving of their lives.
(THAT ^ was prevalent in Jesus’ day, and continues to this day. And IN this day, it is on a World Scale OF Wicked Power sitting men.....DEMANDING....
The Whole World....cover their mouths;
Deciding... WHO can speak freely.....and WHO can not;
Closing..... Churches;
Dictating....THEY are the Help givers;
Dictating....THEY are the Aid giver;
Dictating....THEY are the Safety providers;
Dictating....THEY are the Peace providers;
Dictating....THEY are the Saviors of Lives;
Dictating....IF people REFUSE Allegiance TO THEM; They WILL cut off your ability to Travel, Work, Buy, Sell. They WILL take your Savings stored in Banks, They WILL take your Property. They WILL send Armed men to BEAT you, Kill you.
They WILL take your Liberty, rounding up persons and putting them in Arm Guarded encampments.
AND..........NOT ONLY DICTATING.....BUT before your EYES...
DOING THESE THINGS.
* WHAT JESUS TAUGHT....and WARNED...WAS THE WEAKNESS of mens OWN Will-power to KEEP IN BELIEF.....FAILS....BECAUSE men Cower in FEAR, of Powers Greater than the average citizenry OF the World.
(Demonic angels and Wicked Power sitting men.)
* WHAT JESUS TAUGHT...SALVATION NOW...BY, THROUGH, OF.....HIM.
ONCE....FOREVER....That NO MAN, COULD, Stop, Take, Interfere, Obstruct.
We discovered BY and Through Jesus’ Teachings, HOW to obtain Jesus’ Offering, of Forgiveness, of Salvation NOW, of Quickening of our spirit NOW, By, Through, Of the POWER of God, who IS Christ.......THAT no man, can Stop, Take, Interfere, or Obstruct.
AND that ON THE DAY, the Disciples of Jesus’ gathered together, TO RECEIVE their SALVATION and QUICKENING, about 100 persons gathered WITH THEM, Receiving the SAME...............including Mary.
(Acts 1 & 2).
THE VERY STRANGE Teaching of Catholics....
* Is teaching A BABY INFANT, who has NEVER repented, NEVER confessed Belief, receives a QUICKENING (born again) of their spirit, by pouring water on their head, by a Catholic Priest.
* And the Saving of their SOUL? Well, ya, sort of....IF they Continue (endure) to Believe to their Physical Death...(THEIR SOUL...WILL THEN BE SAVED), and HOW TO KNOW, IF ones soul “will THEN be saved at physical Death) ?
BY the OBSERVING....the GOOD WORKS, they do during their physical life time.
* IN the mean time, DURING their Physical Life, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT, received SALVATION of THEIR souls......THEY therefore CONTINUE to SIN...
THEY therefore CONTINUE to require REPETITIVE “forgiveness”, of THEIR SINS.
THEY therefore need someone to CONFESS their “SINS” TO.
THEY therefore need someone to TELL them “THEIR SINS ARE forgiven”...
...ie “Their” created and “appointed” Priests, they call “FATHERS”.
Fact is according to the WORD of God...
Sin is Against God. Only God forgives Sin against Him.
People are not given the Holy Spirit, by another’s Desire.
People are not PARTIALLY “Converted”...
Conversion IN Christ, INCLUDES, Receiving; ONCE...Forgiveness of all Sin, soul Salvation, spirit quickening, Gods Spirit within the person, Freedom FROM all Sin, Keeping By the Power of God within them, and Can SIN NO MORE.
It is NEITHER....Mindfully LOGICAL...OR...Spiritually FATHOMABLE...
That the SPIRIT OF God IN A PERSON...(ie a person QUICKENED, as Catholics Teach occurs DURING BABY water Baptism)...sits by idly while the person SINS Against God!
How can that be?
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