Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

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Taken

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teaching without scripture is useless. The RCC prefers man-made "traditions" because they get to fit their "pharasaic rules" into a scheme that holds power over the people.

The Hebrews were given “traditions”... sabbath days, sabbath years, feasts, jubilees, etc. They were told to continue their “traditions”....
What Catholics primarily does appears to be “Catholic invented” traditions, imo.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Mariology, or the study of the virgin Mary, has been in effect the attempt to explain Mary as an equal to Jesus Christ that has been an ongoing internal struggle within the church between biblical doctrine and extrabiblical visions, dreams, and fictions.

The church father, Origen, was the first to mention the writing called the gospel of James, or protoevangelion of James and as untrustworthy and heretical. It's an apocryphal work, later condemned by Pope Gelasius in the 5th century, but is a fantasy that describes a miraculous birth of the virgin Mary as well as an elaborate story about her life up until her pregnancy.

Though a text that was not to be read by Catholics it was in part used to defend the doctrine of the assumption of the Virgin Mary. The doctrine of the assumption has its origins in the feast of Dormition celebrating the "falling asleep" of Mary practiced in the Byzantine empire "around the 6th century". In Rome this was expanded to include a legend that Mary remained a perpetual virgin, was resurrected after her death and raptured into heaven.

This doctrine of the assumption was not part of church dogma until 1950, less than a century ago, by the decree of Pope Pius XII.

In the 1990s the Mariologists within the RCC were petitioning Pope John Paul to "elevate" the status of his patron saint to coredemptrix with Jesus Christ, effectively changing the trinity to a quaternity, all founded on that original apocryphal work rejected and condemned by a 5th century Pope. John Paul, clinging to sanity and biblically based doctrine rejected the pressure, leaving such a decision to a later apostate Pope.

The appeal to the flesh of a female deity is as old as the pagan fertility cults and the search for equality between men and women. It's no coincidence that the assumption became dogma during the early days of the feminist movement, perhaps even spurring a movement that was originally about voting rights to total equality with men, and more recently the idea of gender assignment, counting biology as irrelevant. The name Mary is a version of Miriam, both are derived from the Hebrew word Marah which translates as "bitterness" or "wormwood."

10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter. Revelation 8:10-11

There are few things short of denying the deity of Christ that would be more damaging to the church than the evolution of the doctrines of Mariology to the point of making her equal to God.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Such a simple desire as to honor the mother of our Lord, became opportunity for Satan to deceive a multitude in the church and potentially cause them to commit idolatry over a saint blessed by God to bear His Son.
 
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farouk

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The Hebrews were given “traditions”... sabbath days, sabbath years, feasts, jubilees, etc. They were told to continue their “traditions”....
What Catholics primarily does appears to be “Catholic invented” traditions, imo.
In terms of what was Scriptural, all pointed to Christ, for Hebrew Christians. It was not some kind of synagogue authority that supposedly morphed into an ecclesiastical one.
 

theefaith

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Scripture starts with Genesis 1:1 and ends with Revelation 22:21....

Rev. 22:21..."He who testifies to these things ays, "Surely I am comin soon." Amen, Come, Lord Jesus!"
Are you sure you are ready if Jesus should come while you are sleeping tonight? He won't be bringing Mary with him. She will be resurrected with all the other dead saints.

Therefore you should be paying more attention to Rev 22:18-19..."I warn everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words described in this book of this prophecy, God wil take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are decribed in this book."

Are you teaching soul sleep!

what about lk 1:28 Mary is not with Jesus but the other way around “the Lord is with Her”

where are there a list of books and chapters of scripture in scripture?
Is Daniel 13 included is the gospel of Thomas included?

those in the communion of saints are alive not dead

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live
 

theefaith

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teaching without scripture is useless. The RCC prefers man-made "traditions" because they get to fit their "pharasaic rules" into a scheme that holds power over the people.

Christ taught the apostles in person without scripture!
That’s useless?

Christ COMMANDED His apostles to teach what they were taught!

the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles wrote scripture so the don’t require scripture to know truth! Jn 8:32

scripture is the possession of the church not yours

There not man made tradition
They are divine revelation!

the apostles have authority from Christ not from scripture

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!
 

theefaith

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I didn’t mention Christians.
Humans are converted, (their title tag is irrelevant), by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....which involves several works of God...one being receiving of the Seed of God, which is Christ, in their new heart.
It’s not a mixing of seeds. It’s not a pregnancy.

you said lk 1:49 applies to everyone
 

Taken

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In terms of what was Scriptural, all pointed to Christ, for Hebrew Christians. It was not some kind of synagogue authority that supposedly morphed into an ecclesiastical one.

The Apostles Jews were SENT to continue Jesus’ Works....SENT to the Jews, then ALL the Tribes. Where did the Apostles go? To Jewish Brethren in the synagogues, with the Word of God in their heart, in their mouth.

The trailing Apostle Saul the Jew/Paul the Citizen of Roman...SENT to the Gentiles, with the Word of God in his heart, in his mouth.

Trailing Gentiles, gathering in Church, many unaware their teachers are “supposed”, to teach according to the Word of God in their heart and mouth, and many “unaware” their teachers are “not” teaching according to the Word of God in their heart and mouth.
 
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Taken

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Christ taught the apostles in person without scripture!

The Apostles taught with the Word of God in their hearts and their mouths.

Christ COMMANDED His apostles to teach what they were taught!

Nothing new, FOR ANY Teacher/Preacher, to Teach/Preach ACCORDING TO the Word of God in their hearts and their mouths....
Fail that...they are False Teachers/Preachers.

the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles wrote scripture so the don’t require scripture to know truth! Jn 8:32

The Church.....Jesus’ Church.
The Church.....Established By; Jesus.
The Church.....Head; Jesus the Truth
The Church.....Rock Foundation; Christ the Power
The Church.....Body, Members IN Christ, First Members, the Apostles, thereafter all disciples who become IN Christ.

IN CHRIST.....Forgiven, Bodily Crucified, Body Cleansed, Bodily Sin Covered, Body Sanctified, Body Justified, Heart circumcised, New Heart, soul restored, soul saved, Receive Baptism of the Holy Spirt, Receive Gods Spirit of Truth, Receive Gods Seed, Not subject to Wrath, Free from Sin. Can Sin NO MORE,
WITH and IN Christ, (Gods Power). Gods Power; Christ, Gods Word; Jesus, WITH and IN that Church Member.
They become called; Faith-FULL; called saints;
They become sons of Abraham, and his faithful descendants.
They
IS born OF God, is Sealed unto God, is a son of God, Appointment to be Bodily risen in Glory, united with it’s saved soul, it’s quickened spirit, holy. Forever WITH the Lord God Almighty. They be Gods HOLY inheritance. Forever the Lord God Almighty BE WITH them.

No mention of “catholic, Protestant, pope, Peter, Paul, Mary”....
Jesus’ Church is about ONE individual earthling Becoming United WITH Gods Word, Gods Christ, IN that ONE individuals Heart and Mouth, and that ONE individual Being a Brother to all others WHO themselves are United WITH Gods Word and Gods Christ.


the apostles have authority from Christ not from scripture

The Scriptures ARE ACCORDING TO; the WORD of God, the POWER of God.

What power does Christ have?


Huh? OH YIPES!! No wonder your write what you do....:(
 

farouk

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Mariology, or the study of the virgin Mary, has been in effect the attempt to explain Mary as an equal to Jesus Christ that has been an ongoing internal struggle within the church between biblical doctrine and extrabiblical visions, dreams, and fictions.

The church father, Origen, was the first to mention the writing called the gospel of James, or protoevangelion of James and as untrustworthy and heretical. It's an apocryphal work, later condemned by Pope Gelasius in the 5th century, but is a fantasy that describes a miraculous birth of the virgin Mary as well as an elaborate story about her life up until her pregnancy.

Though a text that was not to be read by Catholics it was in part used to defend the doctrine of the assumption of the Virgin Mary. The doctrine of the assumption has its origins in the feast of Dormition celebrating the "falling asleep" of Mary practiced in the Byzantine empire "around the 6th century". In Rome this was expanded to include a legend thar Mary remained a perpetual virgin, was resurrected after her death and raptured into heaven.

This doctrine of the assumption was not part of church dogma until 1950, less than a century ago, by the decree of Pope Pius XII.

In the 1990s the Mariologists within the RCC were petitioning Pope John Paul to "elevate" the status of his patron saint to coredemptrix with Jesus Christ, effectively changing the trinity to a quaternity, all founded on that original apocryphal work rejected and condemned by a 5th century Pope. John Paul, clinging to sanity and biblically based doctrine rejected the pressure, leaving such a decision to a later apostate Pope.

The appeal to the flesh of a female deity is as old as the pagan fertility cults and the search for equality between men and women. It's no coincidence that the assumption became dogma during the early days of the feminist movement, perhaps even spurring a movement that was originally about voting rights to total equality with men, and more recently the idea of gender assignment, counting biology as irrelevant. The name Mary is a version of Miriam, both are derived from the Hebrew word Marah which translates as "bitterness" or "wormwood."

10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter. Revelation 8:10-11

There are few things short of denying the deity of Christ that would be more damaging to the church than the evolution of the doctrines of Mariology to the point of making her equal to God.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Such a simple desire as to honor the mother of our Lord, became opportunity for Satan to deceive a multitude in the church and potentially cause them to commit idolatry over a saint blessed by God to bear His Son.
@michaelvpardo Put simply, it's just adding to the Word of God, all the wrong emphasis on Mary.
 
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Taken

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you said lk 1:49 applies to everyone

Why are you speaking for me? If I said something, then QUOTE MY WORDS.

Your HABITUAL “game playing”....OF making up lies, FAILURE to QUOTE, speaking for others, is noted, old, boring...poor reflection on Catholics.
 
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Illuminator

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It's what the scribes and the pharisees did that the RCC does today...made up "traditions" outside of God's Holy Word that created a heavy burden on the people they were in charge of.
But you don't name any "traditions". All Sacred Traditions compliment Scripture with no contradictions and until you prove otherwise, your just making forum flatulence. It is your tradition to redefine Tradition into a dirty word. Scripture never does that.

Many Protestants (especially anti-Catholic ones) hold, by and large, the view that Scripture and sacred, apostolic tradition are somehow unalterably opposed to each other and, for all practical purposes, mutually exclusive. This is yet another example of a false dichotomy which Protestantism often (unfortunately) tends to create (e.g., faith vs. works, matter vs. spirit). The Bible, however, presupposes tradition as an entity prior to and larger than itself, from which it is derived, not as some sort of “dirty word.”

It is one thing to wrongly assert that Catholic tradition (the beliefs and dogmas which the Church claims to have preserved intact passed down from Christ and the apostles) is corrupt, excessive and unbiblical. It is quite another to think that the very concept of tradition is contrary to the outlook of the Bible and pure, essential Christianity. This is, broadly speaking, a popular and widespread variant of the distinctive Protestant viewpoint of sola Scriptura, or “Scripture Alone,” which was one of the rallying cries of the Protestant Revolt in the 16th century. It remains the supreme principle of authority, or “rule of faith” for evangelical Protestants today. Sola Scriptura by its very nature tends to pit tradition against the Bible.

First of all, one might also loosely define tradition as the authoritative and authentic Christian history of theological doctrines and devotional practices. Christianity, like Judaism before it, is fundamentally grounded in history: in the earth-shattering historical events in the life of Jesus Christ (the incarnation, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, etc.). Eyewitnesses (Lk 1:1-2, Acts 1:1-3, 2 Pet 1:16-18) communicated these true stories to the first Christians, who in turn passed them on to other Christians (under the guidance of the Church’s authority) down through the ages. Therefore, Christian tradition, defined as authentic Church history, is unavoidable.

Many Protestants read the accounts of Jesus’ conflicts with the Pharisees and get the idea that He was utterly opposed to all tradition whatsoever. This is false. A close reading of passages such as Matthew 15:3-9 and Mark 7: 8-13 will reveal that He only condemned corrupt traditions of men, not tradition per se. He uses qualifying phrases like “your tradition,” “commandments of men,” “tradition of men,” as opposed to “the commandment of God.” St. Paul draws precisely the same contrast in Colossians 2:8: “See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.”

The New Testament explicitly teaches that traditions can be either good (from God) or bad (from men, when against God’s true traditions). Corrupt pharisaic teachings were a bad tradition (but many of their legitimate teachings were recognized by Jesus; see, e.g., Matthew 23:3). The spoken gospel and the apostolic writings which eventually were formulated as Holy Scripture (authoritatively recognized by the Church in 397 A. D. at the council of Carthage) were altogether good: the authentic Christian tradition as revealed by the incarnate God to the apostles.

The Greek word for “tradition” in the New Testament is paradosis. It occurs in Colossians 2:8, and in the following three passages:

1 Corinthians 11:2 (RSV) . . . maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you. (NRSV, NEB, REB, NKJV, NASB all use “tradition”).

2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Thessalonians 3:6: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.

Note that St. Paul draws no qualitative distinction between written and oral tradition. He doesn’t regard oral Christian tradition as bad and undesirable. Rather, this false belief is, ironically, itself an unbiblical “tradition of men.”

When the first Christians went out and preached the Good News of Jesus Christ after Pentecost, this was an oral tradition proclaimed by “word of mouth.” Some of it got recorded in the Bible (e.g., in Acts 2) but most did not, and could not (see John 20:30; 21:25). It was primarily this oral Christian tradition that turned the world upside down, not the text of the New Testament (many if not most people couldn’t read then anyway). Accordingly, when the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” occur in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to the written word of the Bible. A perusal of the context in each case will make this abundantly clear.

Furthermore, the related Greek words paradidomi and paralambano are usually rendered “delivered” and “received” respectively. St. Paul in particular repeatedly refers to this handing over of the Christian tradition:
1 Corinthians 15:1-3
1 Thessalonians 2:13
Jude 3

Far from distinguishing tradition from the gospel, as evangelicals often contend, the Bible equates tradition with the gospel and other terms such as “word of God,” “doctrine,” “holy commandment,” “faith,” and “things believed among us.” All are “delivered” and “received”:
Read more here.

You complain of Catholic teaching on sexuality and marriage based on ignorance and prejudice; you don't even cite official Catholic teaching because you are either too lazy or trained in bigotry, so you have to make stuff up based on lies that you swallow down whole. Such behavior is unbecoming of anyone claiming to be Christian. Same goes for this evil thread title.


 

theefaith

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The Apostles taught with the Word of God in their hearts and their mouths.



Nothing new, FOR ANY Teacher/Preacher, to Teach/Preach ACCORDING TO the Word of God in their hearts and their mouths....
Fail that...they are False Teachers/Preachers.



The Church.....Jesus’ Church.
The Church.....Established By; Jesus.
The Church.....Head; Jesus the Truth
The Church.....Rock Foundation; Christ the Power
The Church.....Body, Members IN Christ, First Members, the Apostles, thereafter all disciples who become IN Christ.

IN CHRIST.....Forgiven, Bodily Crucified, Body Cleansed, Bodily Sin Covered, Body Sanctified, Body Justified, Heart circumcised, New Heart, soul restored, soul saved, Receive Baptism of the Holy Spirt, Receive Gods Spirit of Truth, Receive Gods Seed, Not subject to Wrath, Free from Sin. Can Sin NO MORE,
WITH and IN Christ, (Gods Power). Gods Power; Christ, Gods Word; Jesus, WITH and IN that Church Member.
They become called; Faith-FULL; called saints;
They become sons of Abraham, and his faithful descendants.
They
IS born OF God, is Sealed unto God, is a son of God, Appointment to be Bodily risen in Glory, united with it’s saved soul, it’s quickened spirit, holy. Forever WITH the Lord God Almighty. They be Gods HOLY inheritance. Forever the Lord God Almighty BE WITH them.

No mention of “catholic, Protestant, pope, Peter, Paul, Mary”....
Jesus’ Church is about ONE individual earthling Becoming United WITH Gods Word, Gods Christ, IN that ONE individuals Heart and Mouth, and that ONE individual Being a Brother to all others WHO themselves are United WITH Gods Word and Gods Christ.




The Scriptures ARE ACCORDING TO; the WORD of God, the POWER of God.



Huh? OH YIPES!! No wonder your write what you do....:(


Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

If Christ is the rock:

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

If Peter’s confession is the rock:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
 

Jim B

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Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

If Christ is the rock:

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

If Peter’s confession is the rock:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

This has nothing to do with the thread's subject: why do Catholics adore, worship, and deify Mary so much? It's not about Peter.
 

theefaith

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And yet you say that your "POPE" thing, while supposedly being the very VICAR OF CHRIST ON EARTH doesn't have to be pure at all!!!!!

And we're supposed to take you seriously???

Mary was the pure temple of God for 9 months
 

Taken

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But you don't name any "traditions". All Sacred Traditions compliment Scripture with no contradictions and until you prove otherwise, your just making forum flatulence. It is your tradition to redefine Tradition into a dirty word. Scripture never does that.

Many Protestants (especially anti-Catholic ones) hold, by and large, the view that Scripture and sacred, apostolic tradition are somehow unalterably opposed to each other ...

Protestants DO NOT OPPOSE the Orally Spoken Word of God.
Protestants DO NOT OPPOSE the Written Word of God.
Protestants DO NOT OPPOSE a Preacher Speaking Orally the Written Word of God.

You miss the mark.
Appointing, electing, hiring, establishing a Preacher to orally Speak to a congregation, requires he Speaks the Word of God, According to the Word of God.

You promote Catholic Tradition is acceptable For Clerics to Preach OUTSIDE and BEYOND the Word of God and the expectation and requirement of the Congregational Members, is to accept such Broadened Preaching.

Tradition is not a dirty word. A Corrupt Tradition is simply an unacceptable Corrupt Tradition. The succession is not corrupt. The secretive hiding of Corrupt succeeding Clerics, IS Corrupt, and a centuries old Tradition of Catholics.
 
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