Truth like God who revealed it is immutable! Ir-reformable!
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?
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Truth like God who revealed it is immutable! Ir-reformable!
Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)
baptism is being born again
immersion Is acceptable as long as it’s done per Matt 28:19
how are they sinless?
One by nature
One by grace
Do they are not equal
one is sinless
One is created sinless
Do they are not equal
lk 1:49
No @theefaith it isn't, apart from the Catholic church. Being born again is have the Holy Spirit come to live in you after you turn your life over to Jesus. Have you ever done that? I know that you know ABOUT God and Jesus in a religious and pious way and that you are sincere in your beliefs, but do you actually KNOW them intimately as in a two way relationship.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
In the Old Testament, the Davidic queen was not the wife of the king, but the mother of the king. Your straw man fallacy falls apart.
John 19:26 – Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 – this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The “woman’s” (Mary’s) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God’s covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 – this is a very significant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary’s intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus’ ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one family through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 – Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother’s request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 – the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God’s kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. (not his wife, as you assert)Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 – in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 – the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 – here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 – the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
The Protestant anti-Mary animus is not biblical. If Mary is not a queen, then Jesus is not a king. Yet you accuse us of blasphemy.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Where in Scripture does it say -- anywhere -- that Mary is a queen?
Re Jesus...
Matthew 2:2, “Where is the one who is born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
Mark 15:2, "So Pilate asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” He replied, “You say so.”
Luke 23:38, "There was also an inscription over him, “This is the king of the Jews.”
John 19:1, "Pilate also had a notice written and fastened to the cross, which read: “Jesus the Nazarene, the king of the Jews.”
... so say all four gospels
Jim B
Well-Known Member
"Now standing beside Jesus’ cross were his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. So when Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing there, he said to his mother, “Woman, look, here is your son!” He then said to his disciple, “Look, here is your mother!” From that very time the disciple took her into his own home." John 19:25-27
Clearly this i referring to two people only: Mary (Jesus' mother) and John (the disciple whom Jesus loved).
Your saying that "Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother" contradicts what Scripture clearly and unequivocally says.
So what is to believed, the infallible Word of God or your skewed interpretation of what it says?
Sola scriptura!
Clearly this i referring to two people only: Mary (Jesus' mother) and John (the disciple whom Jesus loved).
Your saying that "Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying “behold your mother.” Jesus did not say “John, behold your mother” because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother" contradicts what Scripture clearly and unequivocally says.
So what is to believed, the infallible Word of God or your skewed interpretation of what it says?
Sola scriptura!
why does it say if?
He is speaking to Christians
“we” St. Paul includes himself!
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
ABSOLUTELY NOT, silly!!!! Being born again is when a person is infilled by the Holy Spirit, after being CONVICTED OF THEIR SIN, repenting and calling out to God IN FAITH (that He gifts Eph 2:8,9) to apply the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to their lives. THEN as Christians, they can be Baptized as born again Believers.
"Baptism" IS "Immersion" - i.e. to be "Overwhelmed". The silly sprinkling thing that Catholics do is really just ridiculous - but obviously less troublesome for their equally contrived Paedobaptism rituals. I get a kick out of the silly pictures of Jesus, 4-spoked halo and all, standing in the river, with John and his little measuring dipper dripping water over Him. COME ON!!!!!!
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Not a reliable version based on its Aramaic/Latin translation. Over 80 versions use "Hail, favored one"
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
That is blasphemy!
Jesus was born king; Mary was born a sinner who needed a Savior (her words).
Jesus had a crown put upon his head; Mary did not warrant a crown because she is not a queen.
Jesus is alive; Mary is dead.
Jesus is coming back; to raise Mary from the dead along with all the elect.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
It’s more of a study, however in brief.
God knew us before were were.
Jer 1:
[5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Mankind was made good.
Gen 1
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Mankind was called to be holy.
1 Thes 4:
[7] For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
The Lord saves the sinner.
Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Converted are saved.
Matt 18:
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Converted dwell in Christ
1 Cor 12:
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Why would Mary participate in Conversion of receiving Forgiveness, Salvation and Quickening, if she was already SINLESS?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Christ’s Church, yes, not “the” Catholic church.
Yes Christ’s Church is in me.
Yes Jesus is my teacher.
Yes beware men are false teachers.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Of course the created is not equal to the creator.
Of course Mankind is born in sin.
Of course Mankind commits sin.
Of course Mary herself knew she needed Saving from her sin.
Luke 1:
[47] And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Savior from WHAT?
SIN!Her Salvation WHEN?
At her age approx 50 yrs old....not at her own natural birth.
Acts 1 & 2
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Revelation 12:1
A king with no queen does violence to all of Judaism, our "elder brother", that you are divorced from, and not fulfilled in any meaningful sense.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Luke 2:25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
26 And it had been revealed unto him by the Holy Spirit, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came in the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, that they might do concerning him after the custom of the law, 28 then he received him into his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Now lettest thou thy servant depart, Lord, According to thy word, in peace; 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all peoples; 32 A light for revelation to the Gentiles, And the glory of thy people Israel.
33 And his father and his mother were marvelling at the things which were spoken concerning him; 34 and Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this [child] is set for the falling and the rising of many in Israel; and for a sign which is spoken against; 35 yea and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul; that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.
Who are the many hearts according to your infallible interpretation? What "sword" is Simeon talking about? A literal sword? Oh, I forgot again...you don't answer questions.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Sorry but that verse is not about Jesus' mother, Mary. Revelation is a vision given to John, full of allegorical symbols.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your gaslighting claim is False.
Protestants are not anti-Mary.
Protestants are against Catholic libel and slander against Mary.
Is it Biblical teaching that Jesus was manifested in the likeness AS a man...
Or Jesus IS a Human man?
Isn’t it TRUE the NABRE is fully an Acceptable Catholic Bible?
Isn’t it TRUE the NABRE has changed the word MAN to HUMAN, 350+ times?
Isn’t it TRUE Catholics teach Jesus is a HUMAN man?
Isn’t it TRUE Catholics teach Jesus is God?
Heb 2:
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
[17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The seed of Abraham........HUMAN?
Gal 3:
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
WHAT was Abraham’s SEED? ONE SEED...which IS CHRIST.
WHO was Jesus’ Brethren that JESUS WAS LIKE? ABRAHAM’S natural Offspring WHO ALSO HAS ONE SEED....which is CHRIST.
Abraham, Issac, Jacob/Israel, Judah, Benjamin, David, Joseph....
Follow the natural HUMAN linage, ALL natural HUMAN ‘brethren’ Hebrews/ Jews/ ISRAEL, ALL having ONE ”SPIRITUAL” SEED, which is Christ.
Jesus didn’t come to Earth, WITH a natural HUMAN linage.
****God did not impregnate Mary’s virgin womb BY fertilizing Mary’s egg with Gods spiritual Seed.*****
Gods Word IS IN God, goes forth out from Gods Mouth, while always Remaining IN God. Gods Word has gone forth out from Gods Mouth, since the Beginning of His Creation.
Gods Word from the Beginning of His Creation HAS gone forth out of His Mouth, sent to the ears of Adam, to the ears of Eve, to mens Visions, to mens ears, manifested in the likeness of holy angels that appeared to Earthly men, in the LIKENESS AS men....Some such holy angels, manifested for Earthly men to see, revealing their Names, others keeping their Name Secret...
AND in particular LATTER Days;
* The Word of God was SENT forth out from Heaven from Gods Mouth,
TO; a VIRGIN Womb of a particular FAVORED female.
Luke 1:
[30] And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
WHAT “FAVOUR” DID God “FIND” with Mary?
WHY was particularly Mary “FAVOURED”?
Scripture REVEALS;
~ Mary was a Jew.
~ Mary’s womb was VIRGIN.
~ Mary was betrothed to Joseph.
~ Joseph was a Jew.
~ Joseph was direct lawful linage to the HOUSE OF DAVID.
~ DAVID was a King of the HOUSE of DAVID.
~ God established an everlasting Throne of King David.
~ ONLY one OF the HOUSE of DAVID could Legally Claim Right to Sit on King David’s everlasting Throne.
~ ONLY one Legally Descended from Abraham AND WITH GODS SEED (who IS Christ) could Legally Claim Right to Inherit Abraham’s Promised Land.
~ Mary’s marriage to Joseph, means they ARE JOINED AS one Flesh.
~ Mary’s marriage to Joseph, means Joseph’s linage to the HOUSE of DAVID, became Mary’s Legal inclusion to the HOUSE OF DAVID.
~ God SENT forth FROM Heaven, out of His MOUTH, His WORD, expressly in a body GOD PREPARED, to APPEAR in the LIKENESS “AS” a man.
~ Gods WORD sent forth out from God, IS God, and ALSO remained IN God.
~ Gods WORD was SENT TO: an UNDEFILED Place, called a VIRGIN WOMB.
~ That virgin womb, was within Mary.
~ Scripture REVEALS...WHY Mary was favorable.
~ Mary was FAVORABLE...Because her womb was virgin, Because she was Jewish, Because Mary believed in God, Because she was Faithful to God, Because her betrothed was Jewish, Because Joseph Believed. Because Joseph was Faithful, Because she was betrothed to Joseph of the House of David, Because the faithful of the House of David were legally Entitled to Sit on Kind Davids everlasting throne AND legally claim the inheritance of Abraham’s Promised Land. Because they were required to participate in a Roman Census. Because their participation in the Roman Census required them to register in person in their assigned district. Because their assigned district was Bethlehem.
God did NOT impregnate Mary by fertilizing her Human egg.
God SENT His SEED to Marys VIRGIN Womb.
Human fertilization does not take place in a females Womb.
Spiritual fertilization of a human females egg, is an abomination unto God.
It is Ridiculous on it’s face to claim God fertilized a human female egg with His SEED, as self-proclaimed Catholic teacher BOL has claimed, giving rise to his claims that Jesus had Mary’s DNA.
Mary was no exception to the HUMAN race, herself being SINFUL dust of the Earth, WHO believed and AGREED like many others before Mary, to Serve God in a Fashion of His Desire.
Mary herself knew she required a Savior, and participated in a gathering along with Jesus’ chosen Disciples and other men and women joining in themselves becoming disciples....ALL together AFTER Jesus’ Ascension ... They receiving CONVERSION...forgiveness for their SINS....Saving of their souls...Quickening of their spirits...
Men MAKING MARY, “sinless from her natural birth”, teaching and preaching the same....is NOT what Mary herself claimed, promoted, said....
WHY slander Mary’s blessings and memory with a pack of men lies?
Making JESUS a “HUMAN” man, IS never taught in Valid Scripture.
Making MARY a “natural born SINLESS Human”, IS never taught in Valid Scripture.
Changing SCRIPTURE to fit a mans philosophy and false teaching, IS never taught in Valid Scripture.
WHY slander Jesus’ holiness and memory with a pack of mens lies?
IS the TRUTH too Unbelievable?
IS the TRUTH too Difficult to teach?
What IS the motive behind TEACHING mens philosophical lies?
...
No, Protestants are NOT Against Mary.
No, Protestants are NOT Against Christ the Lord Jesus.
Protestants ARE Against men’s philosophical lies promoted as Biblical Truths.
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