The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[BarneyFife]

The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation, and has been done away, is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.

It still is.

The only difference is that Christ brought a complete end to the Theocracy on earth, so now Christians are acquitted and infidels' sentences are suspended. Antinomianism is just a mass of confusion authored and evolved by the devil (Ye shall not surely die). He knows Scripture better than 99% of Christians so it is an easy sell. Most Christians are actually unconverted lovers of sin looking for loopholes in the Word to soothe and ultimately silence the naggings of their consciences.

Satan is greatly amused when he can taunt Christ while pointing at those who claim to follow Him twisting texts such as Colossians 2:16, 2 Corinthians 3:7, Romans 14, John 1:17, Romans 6:14, Matthew 5:17 to justify their own lusts, and then pointing at the scars on His own body which He retains from bearing the burden of the transgression of His immutable law. How he gloats and sneers with great satisfaction!

 

[Brakelite]

It still is.

The only difference is that Christ brought a complete end to the Theocracy on earth, so now Christians are acquitted and infidels' sentences are suspended. Antinomianism is just a mass of confusion authored and evolved by the devil (Ye shall not surely die). He knows Scripture better than 99% of Christians so it is an easy sell. Most Christians are actually unconverted lovers of sin looking for loopholes in the Word to soothe and ultimately silence the naggings of their consciences.

Satan is greatly amused when he can taunt Christ while pointing at those who claim to follow Him twisting texts such as Colossians 2:16, 2 Corinthians 3:7, Romans 14, John 1:17, Romans 6:14, Matthew 5:17 to justify their own lusts, and then pointing at the scars on His own body which He retains from bearing the burden of the transgression of His immutable law. How he gloats and sneers with great satisfaction!

I wish I had said that. Second thoughts, no I don't. I'll let you handle the flak from all the self-defensive anti-truth unbelieving professors. The good thing is that there is greater hope for them than the many luke-warm Christians who know the truth but refuse to live up to the precious light they have.

 

[BarneyFife]

I wish I had said that. Second thoughts, no I don't. I'll let you handle the flak from all the self-defensive anti-truth unbelieving professors. The good thing is that there is greater hope for them than the many luke-warm Christians who know the truth but refuse to live up to the precious light they have.

Yeah, I'm probably going to get it, too. I was thinking of starting a thread just about the devil. Behold has a new one going on but it's only about the origin of sin. That's all Christians ever want to talk about when it comes to the enemy of souls. No one wants to talk about what's going on between Christ and Satan today. It's something of a trap for some because it often necessitates pondering where, in fact, one stands in the current stage of the conflict. :)

 

[Brakelite]

Yeah, I'm probably going to get it, too. I was thinking of starting a thread just about the devil. Behold has a new one going on but it's only about the origin of sin. That's all Christians ever want to talk about when it comes to the enemy of souls. No one wants to talk about what's going on between Christ and Satan today. It's something of a trap for some because it often necessitates pondering where, in fact, one stands in the current stage of the conflict. :)

Very similar to people's reaction to conspiracy. When they say with accusing tone, conspiracy theorist, it is almost always with the intention of not wanting to engage in the subject. Shutting down the conversation. My experience with devils however doesn't give the anticipation of conversing upon the subject a great deal of impetus. Yet as you say, the war being currently fought and the tactics used by each side in the battle, (and there are only 2 sides) Isa fascinating, although joyless topic

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It still is.

The only difference is that Christ brought a complete end to the Theocracy on earth, so now Christians are acquitted and infidels' sentences are suspended. Antinomianism is just a mass of confusion authored and evolved by the devil (Ye shall not surely die). He knows Scripture better than 99% of Christians so it is an easy sell. Most Christians are actually unconverted lovers of sin looking for loopholes in the Word to soothe and ultimately silence the naggings of their consciences.

Satan is greatly amused when he can taunt Christ while pointing at those who claim to follow Him twisting texts such as Colossians 2:16, 2 Corinthians 3:7, Romans 14, John 1:17, Romans 6:14, Matthew 5:17 to justify their own lusts, and then pointing at the scars on His own body which He retains from bearing the burden of the transgression of His immutable law. How he gloats and sneers with great satisfaction!

We may not agree on a couple of those verses, but I love the main thrust of your post.

 

[BarneyFife]

We may not agree on a couple of those verses, but I love the main thrust of your post.

Whew! I thought you were gonna lite into me like a tornado in a windmill, 1CL. ;)

 

[Curtis]

It still is.

The only difference is that Christ brought a complete end to the Theocracy on earth, so now Christians are acquitted and infidels' sentences are suspended. Antinomianism is just a mass of confusion authored and evolved by the devil (Ye shall not surely die). He knows Scripture better than 99% of Christians so it is an easy sell. Most Christians are actually unconverted lovers of sin looking for loopholes in the Word to soothe and ultimately silence the naggings of their consciences.

Satan is greatly amused when he can taunt Christ while pointing at those who claim to follow Him twisting texts such as Colossians 2:16, 2 Corinthians 3:7, Romans 14, John 1:17, Romans 6:14, Matthew 5:17 to justify their own lusts, and then pointing at the scars on His own body which He retains from bearing the burden of the transgression of His immutable law. How he gloats and sneers with great satisfaction!

Scripture is clear that believers are delivered from the law and have died to the law, and that the law of Moses is only in effect for the unconverted, who don’t have Gods ndwelling spirit in them.

And it’s clear that believers are under the law if Christ, aka the law of love manifested in the two love commands, and that the ten commands are an integral part of the old covenant law of Moses, and ended when the new, better covenant, founded on better promises, took effect when Jesus died.

 

[Brakelite]

Scripture is clear that believers are delivered from the law and have died to the law, and that the law of Moses is only in effect for the unconverted, who don’t have Gods ndwelling spirit in them.

And it’s clear that believers are under the law if Christ, aka the law of love manifested in the two love commands, and that the ten commands are an integral part of the old covenant law of Moses, and ended when the new, better covenant, founded on better promises, took effect when Jesus died.

On these two commands hang all the law and the prophets. Please explain how this NT statement of our Savior's somehow is rendered null and void for the post modem church whereby truth can be trampled underfoot at a whim of the imagination because it's uncomfortable?

 

[GEN2REV]

In 2 Corinthians chapter three, Paul says the apostles are the ministers of the new covenant and the law of the Spirit that gives life, which he compares with the ten commands, given to Moses on the mountain, that brings death..


The Ten Commands are called the ministration of DEATH, the letter which KILLS, and the ministration of CONDEMNATION.


2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the NEW testament; not of the letter, but of the SPIRIT : for the letter KILLETH , but the spirit giveth life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration OF DEATH written and engraved in stones (The Ten Commandments) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be DONE AWAY:

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be more glorious?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

2Co 3:11 For if that which is DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


The reason the Ten commands kills, brings death, and condemnation, and has been done away, is due to the fact that the penalty under the law for breaking any of the Ten, was being put to death by stoning.


The penalty for homicide - being put to death by stoning:

Exo 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.


The penalty for not honoring your mother and father: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put todeath: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall beupon him.


The penalty for adultery: put to death by stoning:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with anotherman's wife, even hethat committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


The penalty for breaking the sabbath by doing any work, such as picking up sticks for kindling: put to death by stoning:

Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it isholy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth anywork therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.


If the Ten Commands are still in effect, the penalty for breaking them is still in effect, thus those who insist on keeping the ended covenant that contained the Ten Commands, are breaking the law themselves, by not stoning to death those who break the commands.

Scripture is clear that believers are delivered from the law and have died to the law, and that the law of Moses is only in effect for the unconverted, who don’t have Gods ndwelling spirit in them.

And it’s clear that believers are under the law if Christ, aka the law of love manifested in the two love commands, and that the ten commands are an integral part of the old covenant law of Moses, and ended when the new, better covenant, founded on better promises, took effect when Jesus died.

I will probably write-up the post that completely dismantles this argument of 2 Cor. 3, but before I do, I feel the need to ask a simple question, Curtis.

If you, and so many churches, believe and preach that 2 Cor. 3 teaches that the 10 Commandments are now null and void, can you please explain which Commandments are now ok to break?

If you and all the mainstream churches of the world teach (hypocritically) that the 10 Commandments are obsolete now, why is it that all of you still hold to NINE of those Commandments?

Explain that please.

Why do you steadfastly hold that the Commandments not to murder, rob, worship demons, lie, commit adultery, etc. are still crimes against God and punishable by damnation if not repented of?

That is a huge contradiction to your position and I look forward to how you completely change gears and twist up a good scriptural response to just how you reconcile both messages.

Essentially, your message is as incoherent as:

"We have no need whatsoever to obey the 10 Commandments anymore so we only obey 9 of them because we will still be held accountable by God if we don't." _O

 

[BarneyFife]

And it’s clear that... the ten commands are an integral part of the old covenant law of Moses, and ended when the new, better covenant, founded on better promises, took effect when Jesus died.

Yes, please, show us how clear it is, from Scripture, exactly what it means for commandments 1-3 and 5-10 to be designated as "the ministration of death," i.e., the nature of the "ministration" and that of the "death."

And while you're at it, perhaps you could tell us where, in Scripture, it is conclusively pointed out that the ten commandments are exclusive to the old covenant because up until about a half-century ago, virtually no one believed or taught such a thing. I was there, and it wasn' t.

 

[BarneyFife]

On these two commands hang all the law and the prophets. Please explain how this NT statement of our Savior's somehow is rendered null and void

Or possibly, in this case, turned on its head, eh?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

On these two commands hang all the law and the prophets. Please explain how this NT statement of our Savior's somehow is rendered null and void for the post modem church whereby truth can be trampled underfoot at a whim of the imagination because it's uncomfortable?

Uncomfortable? That’s an understatement. It isn’t in a man to love God purely or to love others as much as he loves himself. It is not in the man to do this. It is more than uncomfortable, it is unbearable. He has to first see he is not capable of it. That kind of love is not in the man. Until he sees that, he will be stuck. After he sees it, he will ask for what he lacks.

 

[BarneyFife]

Very similar to people's reaction to conspiracy. When they say with accusing tone, conspiracy theorist, it is almost always with the intention of not wanting to engage in the subject. Shutting down the conversation.

I try to avoid carrying tales of conspiracy, not because I don't think they exist, but because I don't trust the sources of the news to be honest, and I don't want to be found bearing false witness. Of course, the Bible Itself testifies to some conspiracies, and those I don't hesitate to point out, when the timing is right.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, please, show us how clear it is, from Scripture, exactly what it means for commandments 1-3 and 5-10 to be designated as "the ministration of death," i.e., the nature of the "ministration" and that of the "death."

No opinion, just those scriptures you wanted to see, okay, Barn?;)

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yeah, I'm probably going to get it, too. I was thinking of starting a thread just about the devil. Behold has a new one going on but it's only about the origin of sin. That's all Christians ever want to talk about when it comes to the enemy of souls. No one wants to talk about what's going on between Christ and Satan today. It's something of a trap for some because it often necessitates pondering where, in fact, one stands in the current stage of the conflict. :)

Hey Barn and @Backlit

Hi brothers in Christ - Two of my favorite people. I know you also keep the spirit of the law as well as the letter of the law, but many of us believe that only keeping the spirit of the law gives life (and the letter, death - I hope you think about that). And by doing what we do, we establish the Law. Romans 3:31. IOW, we don't break God's old laws; on the contrary, we keep the more powerful and deeper spirit of the law, and focus more on maturing the fruit of the Spirit, something you do too, even though I don't keep the letter of resting one day a week, of which my non-stop trust in Jesus and His abiding inside of me more than accomplishes. I can't speak for everyone else, but now I can live being anxious for nothing - I even go to sleep during a tornado warning with sirens blaring, knowing Jesus is my security. He told me so 45 years ago the first time He spoke to me. So basically, you are just adding to the New Covenant, and I hope God doesn't mind according to Romans 14, and that you are not yourself falling from grace, but I don't think so () which I know you have a different interpretation of Romans 14 - see I noticed. LOL He knows your hearts are pure as I can also attest to, and you're covering all the bases. (I do that too, so know you're zealous for God.) In fact, I know someone who worships on Sunday, but completely rests all day on Saturday according to the Sabbath day law. For them Sunday isn't rest seeing as he's the preacher and obviously works on Sunday. LOL

Barn, just want to say I don't think there is anything going on between Jesus and Satan today. That ended about 2000 years ago. 1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." I even felt my heavy, over-worked sin nature leave my body 45 years ago. Wow, I then felt like I could float.

My focus is not on the devil like many of my old friends in Word of Faith, who were constantly battling Satan. There is no battle. Just tell it "you must leave in the name of Jesus." That is if you happen into a haunted house. LOL Mine isn't. I also tell him or it he can't touch me and quote 1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

Keeping yourself is to remain in the fruit of the Spirit and knowing who I am in Christ. I rest in Christ - He is my security and Love. And the fruit of the Spirit allows me to establish the law of loving God with all my heart, mind and strength, and loving my brethren. And that covers more than 9 commandments; it covers 10, and even goes deeper to the inside of us, like coveting did and why the Old Covenant couldn't make one righteous, because sin remained, so coveting was a constant battle. Now Christ came to take away our sin nature, and the desire to sin is dead. Why, because of the blood of Jesus represented by our new sign of the covenant, the Cup of the New Testament. (Keeping the letter of keeping a day holy was the sign of the Old Covenant. Once a new covenant takes the place of the old, the sign of the old covenant is replaced also by the sign of the new covenant.) Just some facts I thought you would like to know, and that I do not scoff at the Sabbath day. I don't think about it. I have the Creator inside. The spiritual rest has nothing to do with physical rest. Jesus supplied spiritual rest 24/7/365, not once a week. Barn, this is just to help you understand that we who believe like this do not love darkness. Just the opposite. Maybe you could not worry about us so much to the point of not judging rightly because we all love Jesus (except for those who are lukewarm). But those of us with the Spirit understand 1 Corinthians 2:9-16:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Pearl]

Still no response to the posted question that has been asked countless times in this thread.

You didn't like my answers. What is the question again? Oh yes,
The 10 Commandments are FOREVER - but not actually a question.

The two commands that Jesus gave us i.e. Love God with your whole heart and love your neighbour as yourself actually supersede the ones written on stone tablets because these are the ones that should be written on our hearts and cover everything much more succinctly. As i explained previously.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yeah, I'm probably going to get it, too. I was thinking of starting a thread just about the devil. Behold has a new one going on but it's only about the origin of sin. That's all Christians ever want to talk about when it comes to the enemy of souls. No one wants to talk about what's going on between Christ and Satan today. It's something of a trap for some because it often necessitates pondering where, in fact, one stands in the current stage of the conflict. :)

Just wanted to add one more thing on the importance of the Sabbath, and why, being so important, it was the sign of the covenant. The Sabbath was made holy at Creation when Jesus/the Word of God ended His work creating everything. Not because He was tired, but because of who and what He wanted it to represent - Himself. He finally gave this day to keep holy or suffer death to His chosen sinful people. Seeing as what it would finally represent was in the future, therefore a mystery, the substance of the Sabbath - Himself - He gave it to them in a form they could easily keep, by doing absolutely nothing, even with sin in their nature. Doing nothing but rest was the letter of the law, like for kindergarteners; but the spiritual aspect of that law would not be revealed until the Creator showed up Himself. And because of sin God put it in the middle of the covenant laws as a sign of the covenant.

Finally Jesus, the Creator, came and lived a holy life without sin because of being conceived with the seed of the Father, keeping all His Father's commandments, all the while preaching a spiritual gospel that the Pharisees couldn't make heads or tails of, and even the apostles had trouble, though occasionally they would get revelation that Jesus was indeed the Christ, the Son of the Living God. It is strange that the only one of all the people that lived while Jesus was alive to understand the true meaning of the gospel was the thief on the cross. Now how anyone in their right mind could create a narrative that when the prior thief died he hadn't already been baptized and was in fact a reformed thief, current follower of Christ and of course baptized, has strange motives against water baptism.

After the resurrection Jesus stayed on earth for awhile and told his disciples and apostles to stay in Jerusalem until they were empowered with the Holy Spirit. What that did and how if fulfills the Sabbath, it the Creator has now become ONE with us. We don't have to work to be righteous. No! We just do nothing but rest in Him and partake of His divine nature. John 17.

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. (Just like finishing the work of creating, Hebrews 4: 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.) 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. The Living Bible has it right:10 Christ has already entered there. He is resting from his work, just as God did after the creation. 11 Let us do our best to go into that place of rest, too, being careful not to disobey God as the children of Israel did, thus failing to get in. Seeing as the Jews kept the Sabbath DAY, God's rest has nothing to do with what the Jews did. They never abided in God.

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

Barn, Our becoming One with God enters us into His real rest. It is no longer a day, but a position in Christ.

 

[BarneyFife]

No opinion, just those scriptures you wanted to see, okay, Barn?;)

1CL, I declare, your just so precious! I'm still typing a response to your first reply to my little rant. I'm havin' a hard time gettin' my head to work right.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1CL, I declare, your just so precious! I'm still typing a response to your first reply to my little rant. I'm havin' a hard time gettin' my head to work right.

Well, now you'll have another one I just finished! :cool:

 

[Curtis]

Yes, please, show us how clear it is, from Scripture, exactly what it means for commandments 1-3 and 5-10 to be designated as "the ministration of death," i.e., the nature of the "ministration" and that of the "death."

And while you're at it, perhaps you could tell us where, in Scripture, it is conclusively pointed out that the ten commandments are exclusive to the old covenant because up until about a half-century ago, virtually no one believed or taught such a thing. I was there, and it wasn' t.

You were where, and it wasn’t taught? Because not being under the old covenant and sabhbath keeping was settled for centuries until E G White regurgitated that old and settled error.

Paul in 2 Corinthians 3, clearly calls the Decalogue the letter that kills and that ministers death and condemnation, who’s glory has ended, so you can claim Paul erred if you like - which some sects of sabbath keepers do - they reject Paul as a heretic because he plainly states we aren’t under the law of Moses as Christians.

Others like the SDA twist what Paul so clearly says, and ignore the entire book of Galatians written just to correct their exact error.