Its not sin, until.

[Ferris Bueller]

Romans7:6 says we are delivered from the moral law & not just from the condemnation. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held

You're ignoring the context of Romans 7:1-11 which shows us that what we are delivered from is the power of the law to keep us in marital bondage to the flesh, like how the law of marriage keeps a woman in marital bondage to a man and forbids her from being married to another. And so it is that before our flesh dies on the cross with Jesus the law acts like a marriage license that keeps you in marital submission to the flesh, bearing it's fruit, the fruit of death, and keeps you from being able to be married to Jesus and bearing his fruit, the fruit of righteousness. Read it. It's all there in the passage.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Did God create humans to fulfill the moral law?

Yes, that is the plan and purpose of God for mankind:

"14He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds." Titus 2:14
​

If so why were they unclothed in God's most holy presence?

Because God wants people to make their own choice about whether or not to be clothed with Christ and serve him in righteousness. God saw fit to allow mankind to know and experience unrighteousness so that they might then choose righteousness and love and serve him by choice, not out of compulsion.

" 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." Romans 8:20-21
​

By his choice, God subjected mankind to the bondage of disobedience, so that we, by our choice, would reject it if we wanted to, and choose to live in the liberty of the righteousness of the children of God. And as Jesus himself said, most people will choose to not live in freedom from sin as the children of God and will reject God's offer of life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why don't you let Christ rule you rather than worry about what's good & evil?

Everyone who has the Spirit in them in salvation is ruled by that Spirit:

"9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you." Romans 8:9​

As a Spirit-filled person our concern is to be that we follow the lead of the Spirit and not let our guard down and follow the lead of the flesh:

"Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." 1 Peter 5:8

​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So remaining unclothed in God's most holy presence a fruit of righteousness?

No. Saved people are not unclothed in Christ:

"For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." Galatians 3:27
​

And it is because we are now clothed in Christ that we have power over sin and are able to obey what he has commanded. Adam and Eve did not have that clothing-they were naked. The law 'do not eat' exposed their nakedness:

20 ...the law merely brings awareness of sin." Romans 3:20​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So why didn't Adam and Eve experience guilt & separation from God owing to their act of being unclothed, before they chose the moral knowledge of good & evil?

Because it is law that brings knowledge of sin:

"7 ...Indeed, I would not have been mindful of sin if not for the law. For I would not have been aware of coveting if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”" Romans 7:7
​

It is through the law that we find out that we are unclothed in Christ and, therefore, not protected from the deceits of the flesh.

 

[Cooper]

Romans14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

When Paul says here that there is nothing unclean of itself, we must realize that he is speaking only of these indifferent matters. There are plenty of things in life that are unclean, such as pornographic literature, suggestive jokes, dirty movies, and every form of immorality. Paul's statement must be understood in the light of the context. Christians do not contact ceremonial defilement by eating foods that the Law of Moses branded unclean.
.

 

[Taken]

No, actually they were simply not aware of being unclothed as, before they took of the forbidden fruit, it was natural for them to be naked, just like the animals. It was only AFTER they ate the fruit their "eyes were opened" and, they HID from God because they knew they did wrong and from there, humans lost the status they had enjoyed before. Just my take :)

I would say, Before they ate of the forbidden tree, they looked upon one another as companions with love, and after they ate of the forbidden tree, they look upon one another with lust.
(Remembering What God clothed them with; Animal “skins”, by default, meant “blood” of an animal was shed.)
The “blood” of an animal, was for their “forgiveness”.
The “skin” of an animal (which animals do NOT sin), was their “covering”.
That “sinless covering” covered their SHAME, (by default, making their sin, not seen by God.)

When they left the garden, they were forgiven AND their shame covered.
* It was a foreshadow of Jesus’ Blood being Given for our disobedience Against God.
* It was a foreshadow of Jesus’ Body taking upon His Body, the Sin of the World, and then willingly laying down that body unto death, killing that Body and being Risen Up, in a glorious Body, without Sin.
* It was a foreshadow of a man willingly accepting Jesus’ blood, for our forgiveness Against God, and a man willingly laying down his natural bodily life, and taking upon himself, the “Covering” of Christ Jesus’ “pure sinless Risen body”, that that is thereafter, what God SEES, when he looks at us...
(IF and WHEN an individual WILLINGLY accepts God Offering.)

* In brief, the First man Adam, the First woman Eve, was the First (prototype, so to speak) of Gods plan for All of mankind.
* It is the “IF” and “WHEN”, every individual man Freely, Willingly, chooses to Accept Gods Offering; that the consequences of that mans ‘choices’ are revealed all throughout Scripture.

* Bottom line...individual WHO Accept, BY consequence, have Expressly Freely Divided themselves, to be “WITH” God Forever, “from” all others.
* And Like Adam & Eve, for as long as they naturally bodily lived upon this Earth, God did not SEE their “forgiven shame”.
* Such men WHO choose Gods Offering, as well, are forgiven BY Jesus’ shed blood, and as well, their “forgiven shame” is Covered, by Jesus’ Pure sinless “risen body”, which that individual “dwells “IN”....simply called dwelling.....
“IN” Christ Jesus.
* THAT DIVISION....occurs ONCE...and PERMANENTLY...and FOREVER that individual IS Kept FOREVER “WITH” God.....BY the POWER of God “IN” that individual.
* The Blood of Body, given was Jesus’ Blood.
* The Power of God “indwelling”, IS Christ.

(The Commanding of a man and a woman to JOIN in marriage, without the separation and division of Divorce, WAS for a preparation, WAS for humans to practice, FOR something FAR GREATER and PERMANENT....ie Choosing a Forever Permanent Relationship WITH God, that once Effected; there is NO OPTION for Separation or Division of one (individual) APART from the other (God).

Man can not SEE God, thus mankind can NOT Look upon God with the “shame” of LUST.
Jesus was sent to Earth in a body God prepared, and that Body, fully intended to be SEEN by men, WAS average, nothing outstandingly handsome or beautiful for people to be attracted to Him because of His “outside” appearance.
(And just to note...Satan was beautiful, and did and does capture the attention of mankind...and wicked men follow the protocol of Satan...)

REMEMBERING...a recent difference, between two political rivals...
One side...remarking the sleepiness of conflicting words of the other.
One side...remarking the appearance of the other.

Big Picture; You shall know them by their fruits.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cooper]

If Adam and Eve hadn't chosen the forbidden moral knowledge of good & evil, every human would have remained unclothed & there would be no need for pornography?

In the context of the one verse you posted, Paul was referring to Jewish law, not God's law.
.

 

[Taken]

God wants me to obey every commandment summed up in 'love your neighbor as yourself'. I assume you're only capable of understanding obedience as 'trying to justify oneself', right?


Christ only fulfilled 'love your neighbor as yourself' for me in regard to my legal standing with God. But I am the one who actually then loves my neighbor as myself, through the power of the Holy Spirit God has given me.

Amen!
Laws, rules, correction IS “FOR” unlearned “little children”.

As “little children” bodily grow, “YET” “remain unlearned”, they continue “IN NEED of laws, rules, correction”.

As “little children” bodily grow, “AND” “gain WISDOM”, they have ‘NO NEED” of laws, rules, correction”.

The “laws, rules, need for correction” becomes “FULFILLED”.

Once “a little child” IS FULFILLED “with WISDOM”, Gods WILL IS ACCOMPLISHED.

The POWER of God IS Christ.
The WISDOM of God IS Christ.
A man being FILLED with the POWER and WISDOM OF Christ,
IS a man ACCOMPLISHED according to the WAY of Gods WILL....
AND KEPT ACCOMPLISHED expressly by Gods POWER and WISDOM “IN” that man.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

John 14:
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

For “some” men.....”that day has come”....for “other” men....”that day has not come”.

Praise and glory brother Ferris Bueller, that day has come for ‘you’.

Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If it is was only a fruit & not the moral law, why did they experience guilt over their unclothed act?

Because God said not to eat it.

The law is not the tree. The law is the command to not eat of the tree.

 

[Nancy]

@Taken ,
"I would say, Before they ate of the forbidden tree, they looked upon one another as companions with love, and after they ate of the forbidden tree, they look upon one another with lust."

Ahh, interesting, did not even think of the issue of "lust". Nice point out.
And, about that first sacrifice, I would imagine that Adam and Eve were very sorry for one of their animal friends, having to die for their sin.
There sure are many foreshadows all over the bible, always pointing us to truth.
Really love the foreshadow of being IN Christ, as A & E were also forgiven through an innocent sacrifice, but only had the covering which would eventually become a repeat yearly, for their forgiveness.
Lot's to ponder Taken, thanks for sharing.

 

[Taken]

Because God said not to eat it.

The law is not the tree. The law is the command to not eat of the tree.

And that which God OFFERED to EAT, in the midst of the Garden, WAS precisely “The TREE of LIFE”.

And thereafter that which God OFFERED all men to EAT, when God SENT Jesus in the midst of men on earth, and Jesus revealed “through” the Knowledge of His Word, HE is WHAT TO EAT...EAT of “The TREE of LIFE”....
Gods Word...EAT IT.
Gods Word....Called, Jesus, the Way, the Truth, the Life.

EATING....is the KEY of ASSURANCE to EATING of the “TREE OF LIFE”, and LIVE “FOREVER”...WITH God.

And YET, we are notified....men have Opportunity....TO TASTE...of the TREE OF LIFE (Gods WORD)....TASTE IT....try it out. See IF you LIKE it....
IF you LIKE IT? EAT IT.
IF you are NOT SURE, keep TASTING, until YOU DECIDE.
IF you DON’T LIKE IT? SPIT IT OUT.

THOSE ^^^ IF’s...(individual decisions of individual men) IS the differences, between;
OSAS, (IN Christ and WITH God forever). Gods POWER of Keeping.
TASTING, (WITH God, but can fall away). Mans power to hope they keep.
TASTED, spit it out, (WITHOUT God, fallen away). No power, doomed for destruction.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Behold]

Obedience to God's commandments shows you have the gift of God's righteousness.

The Devil and his ministers will offer you all the spiritual fruit you will ever need to see.
And you wont realize it and that is why they own you, as proven by your theology.
You didnt obey Hebews 13:9 and you have paid the cost, as defined by that verse.

= You'll just talk about your savior. which is....>"deeds, law, and lifestyle".

Listen, real Christians talk about the Christ and the Cross and what Jesus did for them.
You only talk about your religion of "me me me me, look at what im doing".

 

[Taken]

@Taken ,
"I would say, Before they ate of the forbidden tree, they looked upon one another as companions with love, and after they ate of the forbidden tree, they look upon one another with lust."

Ahh, interesting, did not even think of the issue of "lust". Nice point out.
And, about that first sacrifice, I would imagine that Adam and Eve were very sorry for one of their animal friends, having to die for their sin.
There sure are many foreshadows all over the bible, always pointing us to truth.
Really love the foreshadow of being IN Christ, as A & E were also forgiven through an innocent sacrifice, but only had the covering which would eventually become a repeat yearly, for their forgiveness.
Lot's to ponder Taken, thanks for sharing.

Much of the OT is foreshadowing. We are fortunate to have the history of the foreshadowing AND the manifestation of the foreshadowing coming to pass.
That is the BIG PICTURE of HOW God, being UNSEEN taught from the beginning...HEAR His Word....then be patient, Observe when it comes to pass, thus you GAIN Trust of His Word is True....and you SEE the manifestation of what WAS foretold.

We can criticize and say.....oh the poor OT men, waiting so long for Foretelling coming to pass....YET, it IS the same for every newborn...learning bit by bit, hearing bit by bit...Then seeing things come to pass, per their own individual life.....AND the GRAND importance, of Parents to fill “their” little children with “TRUTH”, before those little children are “released” into the World’s society, because they are not YET, prepared to recognize “truth from fiction”.
* (And what does “society advocate and promote” as good and acceptable?
Have a baby and immediately send them off, out of the parents care, for the bulk of the child’s waking day, into Strangers care, AND that Stranger’s idea of “truth or fiction”....IS? WHO exactly IS behind the scenes DICTATING...
What that “stranger”...MUST fill those babes minds WITH, (according to them)? Corrupt Politicians...! Daycare, Schools, Teaching, all being dictated, THIS and NOT THAT. Their “THIS” IS the complete opposite of Gods teaching.

We still have many “foreshadows revealed”, and we “wait” “IN TRUTH”, ie “IN Christ” .... “IN” peace....for those foreshadows to come to pass...”WITHOUT” Fear... ie a troubled heart.....even when....men “OF” the World 24-7 are BLASTING out.....to BE IN FEAR of this crisis, of that crisis, (they Instigate)... and then TRUST “them” to save you. Pfft!

Remember....a man “IN” Christ....is already “COVERED”, by Gods POWER...
Nothing whatsoever a “man OF the world” can do to save you, or remove Gods ...covering.

Rom 12:
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. < accomplish-ED. :)

You, as a child OF God...IS Gods Great Blessing is WITH and IN you,
Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

@Taken
Yes we are very blessed to be able to look back and see what He has already done what He said He would, so looking into the future, we can be certain He will also do all He say's He will. He does not change and I just love that.
Trust man- Pfft is right! I trust NO man, period.

Watched a movie last night on Pureflix about how the government is and has been trying for some time now, to put a stop to homeschooling. Men have the devils curriculum. Want to indoctrinate our kids to the way of the world (or Satan) It becomes clearer and clearer each day how evil is threaded through the most innocent of things and, so many are fooled, even many Christians.
I sure hope to get an underground gathering together as, I am looking for a place in the countryside, selling my house. Looking for some surrounding land and lot's of trees...we never know when we will have to hide in order to gather and pray and worship Him. It is coming on so very fast, like a woman in labor...closer and closer, more and more intense.
God help your Church!

 

[Angelina]

Didn't Eve choose the forbidden moral law? Didn't the whole of humanity repeat the same sin?

No Eve did not choose the moral law as you keep stating. She along with Adam were in communion with God. They were innocent . She was decieved by the serpent because of what she was being offered if she ate the fruit from that tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Even though she quoted to the serpent, what God had said. If she chose a moral law, it would mean she knew the difference. She would already know good from evil but she did not ..

 

[Cooper]

Amen!
Laws, rules, correction IS “FOR” unlearned “little children”.

As “little children” bodily grow, “YET” “remain unlearned”, they continue “IN NEED of laws, rules, correction”.

As “little children” bodily grow, “AND” “gain WISDOM”, they have ‘NO NEED” of laws, rules, correction”.

The “laws, rules, need for correction” becomes “FULFILLED”.

Once “a little child” IS FULFILLED “with WISDOM”, Gods WILL IS ACCOMPLISHED.

The POWER of God IS Christ.
The WISDOM of God IS Christ.
A man being FILLED with the POWER and WISDOM OF Christ,
IS a man ACCOMPLISHED according to the WAY of Gods WILL....
AND KEPT ACCOMPLISHED expressly by Gods POWER and WISDOM “IN” that man.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

John 14:
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

For “some” men.....”that day has come”....for “other” men....”that day has not come”.

Praise and glory brother Ferris Bueller, that day has come for ‘you’.

Taken

I don't believe the blood of animals atones for sin. I'm sorry.
.

 

[Behold]

No Eve did not choose the moral law as you keep stating. She along with Adam were in communion with God. They were innocent . She would already know good from evil but she did not ..

It was when she ate of the tree of good and evil, the tree of knowledge, that her "eyes were opened" to "sin"....the moral law.

Before she ate it, before Adam ate it, their issue is this..>"choose this day who you will serve".
So, they had a choice to do what God said or to do what the Serpent suggested.
This isn't a moral choice, this is a "choose this day who you will serve".......free will.
And the cost of that choice is that God had to come down here and be slaughtered on a Tree so that we could be restored to that spiritual "oneness" with God by being "born again" into the Spirit of God, BY the Spirit of God.
Not by water.

 

[Angelina]

It was when she ate of the tree of good and evil, the tree of knowledge, that her "eyes were opened" to "sin"....the moral law.

Before she ate it, before Adam ate it, their issue is this..>"choose this day who you will serve".
So, they had a choice to do what God said or to do what the Serpent suggested.
This isn't a moral choice, this is a "choose this day who you will serve".......free will.
And the cost of that choice is that God had to come down here and be slaughtered on a Tree so that we could be restored to that spiritual "oneness" with God by being "born again" into the Spirit of God, BY the Spirit of God.
Not by water.

As I had already stated, she did not choose a moral law because if she did, she would know the difference between good and evil but she didn't prior to eating. She was decieved and believed the serpent, understanding that the fruit was good and able to make one wise like God. She made that decision yes, based on her free will but she very quickly forgot what God had said if you eat, you will die. The serpent said, surely you will not die. ..

 

[Nancy]

Romans7:6 says we are delivered from the moral law & not just from the condemnation. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held

Yes, the Law is DEAD as far as our salvation goes, Jesus Fulfilled the Law and we are to follow His lead and through His Holy Spirit given on your new birth through Christ, we have been given power over temptation. It really is pretty simple, will one try to save themselves (HA!) through their own efforts, or will they accept the grace given us by Christ...simply to believe and secure our salvation in Him.

The more of His word and connection to Him are in place, the more the worldly things of the flesh will diminish. This is my experience only, and it does work!
God Bless