James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Bible Highlighter]

The thief on the cross had faith alone?
Belief only?
The thief had repentance.
Godly sorrow for His sins against God.

I don't see the thief asking Jesus to forgive him.
Judas had sorrow over his sin, but he committed suicide.
So just having sorrow over your sin is not good enough.
Yes, a godly sorrow works (or leads to) repentance but repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. That's what 1 John 1:9 is. It's repentance.
The thief merely asked if Jesus would remember Him when He came into His kingdom.
So the thief believed in Jesus as the Savior.
That's what saved him.

Once a person is saved and then sins, what does God teach we must do?
1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

After initial salvation, when we sin we must repent by confessing our sin to God.

Yes. This is one example of being saved by God's grace.

You must speculate by teaching the thief was not already saved at one point in his life.
This is why all he would have had to do on the cross was believe and repent.

If such were the case whereby this was a previous follower of Jesus who was water baptized then why would the thief openly admit his own wrongdoing along with the others? In other words, it appears like he has not changed and he was still living the unconverted life of an unbeliever.

Luke 23:41 KJB
“And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.”

Luke 23:41 BSB
“We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

Repentance is not belief.
There goes faith only.

Do you see repentance as seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus?
If so, then how exactly is that a work?
Did you ever consider it a chore to seek forgiveness with somebody?
Do believers groan at the idea of having to seek forgiveness with Jesus because it is too laborious of a task?
This is why I don't consider seeking forgiveness with God as a work.
It's about throwing yourself down before God's grace and being broken before Him.
It's about being sorry (with a godly sorrow).

Now we have:

Faith 1
Repentance 1
Baptism 1

That is not faith only!

The thief showed Godly sorrow for his sins,

2Corinthians 7:10
For Godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

Then there is Luke 18:9-14. The Tax Collector was more justified than the Pharisee because he cried out to God in seeking forgiveness with Him.

The prodigal son was forgiven by the Father without him having to do backflip twists through hoops of fire while poodles permanently bit down upon his fingers.

The prodigal son sought forgiveness with his father and he was restored. No water involved. No poodles or hoops of fire involved. See Luke 15:11-32.

Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.

To believe in Jesus is a commandment (1 John 3:23). It does not mean to believe is a work, though.

 

[Titus]

Those who die on their deathbed and accept Jesus as their Savior.
Those who accept Jesus as their Savior and they die a few days later (not knowing they were going to die).

Babies who die are not even saved by faith alone even.
They are saved purely by God's grace.
For if Jesus never went to the cross, then all of mankind would have been doomed.
Of course we know that would have never happened.
For God is love.

This answer contradicts your second phase of salvation.

That only those that obey God and keep His commandments are saved.

I agree about babies.
Why even bring them up. It does not prove your gospel true.
Babies are saved without believing in the gospel.

Deathbed salvation.
If faith alone were true then yes this could be true.

It still contradicts your second phase of salvation.
This doctrine of yours, makes God have favoritism towards those who do nothing.
Than those who must do works.

The problem with your deathbed confession is, it is a false premise.

No one is going to be saved just because they believe in Jesus.
They must have a heart to believe and obey Jesus. Then God will save them on their deathbed.
Just wanting to be saved without wanting to obey God never saved anyone.

If someone cannot obey Jesus' gospel because of physical hindrances.
That is out of a persons control.
But if that same person has no desire to obey Gods commandments.
There belief alone cannot save them on their deathbed.

You still have contradictions in your gospel.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What an arrogant thing to say to someone you know nothing about!

I am well aware of the word baptismos.
I am well aware of Hebrews 9:10
Concerned only with foods and drinks, various baptismos, and fleshly ordinances.....

My apologies for assuming you did not know about the word “baptismos.”
I merely get the impression that you don't know the word well enough because you don't know how it is translated in the Bible (See my next point).

You need to go to a Greek scholar and ask him the difference between
Baptizo and Baptismos

They are NOT the same word.

The word baptismos is translated like this though.

Source:
Baptismos - BlueLetterBible.org

Baptismo is never used in any of the baptism in Jesus' gospel. Not once!

Acts 2:38 baptizo
Mark 16:25-16 baptizo
1Peter 3:20-21 baptizo
Acts 22 :16 baptizo
Acts 8:12. baptizo
Etc.

It's clear that baptismos in reference to the doctrine of baptisms in Hebrews 6:2.

Jesus's baptism in Mark 16:15-16 is unanimous accepted by best Greek scholars as baptizo ie water immersion.

You have mistranslated alot of passages.

Acts 8:38
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Phillip and the Eunuch went down into the water and he baptizo him.

This again was until the time of reformation as Hebrews 9:10 says. We see Paul rebaptize Ephesian believers in Acts 19 who knew only of John's water baptism. Apollos in the previous chapter (Acts 18) only knew of John's water baptism (Acts 18:25), and Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:26).

 

[Titus]

I don't see the thief asking Jesus to forgive him.
Judas had sorrow over his sin, but he committed suicide.
So just having sorrow over your sin is not good enough.
Yes, a godly sorrow works (or leads to) repentance but repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. That's what 1 John 1:9 is. It's repentance.
The thief merely asked if Jesus would remember Him when He came into His kingdom.
So the thief believed in Jesus as the Savior.
That's what saved him.



Yes. This is one example of being saved by God's grace.



If such were the case whereby this was a previous follower of Jesus who was water baptized then why would the thief openly admit his own wrongdoing along with the others? In other words, it appears like he has not changed and he was still living the unconverted life of an unbeliever.

Luke 23:41 KJB
“And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.”

Luke 23:41 BSB
“We are punished justly, for we are receiving what our actions deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”



Do you see repentance as seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus?
If so, then how exactly is that a work?
Did you ever consider it a chore to seek forgiveness with somebody?
Do believers groan at the idea of having to seek forgiveness with Jesus because it is too laborious of a task?
This is why I don't consider seeking forgiveness with God as a work.
It's about throwing yourself down before God's grace and being broken before Him.
It's about being sorry (with a godly sorrow).



Then there is Luke 18:9-14. The Tax Collector was more justified than the Pharisee because he cried out to God in seeking forgiveness with Him.

The prodigal son was forgiven by the Father without him having to do backflip twists through hoops of fire while poodles permanently bit down upon his fingers.

The prodigal son sought forgiveness with his father and he was restored. No water involved. No poodles or hoops of fire involved. See Luke 15:11-32.



To believe in Jesus is a commandment (1 John 3:23). It does not mean to believe is a work, though.

Jesus did not save Judas for his sorrow.
The fact he saved the thief proves he had GODLY sorrow which leads to repentance, 2Corinthians 7:10.

Your speculating about the thief. You cannot prove he was saved at one time in his life.
You cannot prove he was not water immersed by John for the forgiveness of sins Mark 1:4-5

Your argument cannot be proven, so it should be abandoned

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This answer contradicts your second phase of salvation.

That only those that obey God and keep His commandments are saved.

I agree about babies.
Why even bring them up. It does not prove your gospel true.
Babies are saved without believing in the gospel.

Deathbed salvation.
If faith alone were true then yes this could be true.

It still contradicts your second phase of salvation.
This doctrine of yours, makes God have favoritism towards those who do nothing.
Than those who must do works.

The problem with your deathbed confession is, it is a false premise.

No one is going to be saved just because they believe in Jesus.
They must have a heart to believe and obey Jesus. Then God will save them on their deathbed.
Just wanting to be saved without wanting to obey God never saved anyone.

If someone cannot obey Jesus' gospel because of physical hindrances.
That is out of a persons control.
But if that same person has no desire to obey Gods commandments.
There belief alone cannot save them on their deathbed.

You still have contradictions in your gospel.

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and the thief on the cross is a testimony to saving those on their deathbeds. For Jesus wants us to reach others for salvation. To not do so is simply a lack of love and it is simply a denial of God's saving grace.

 

[Titus]

My apologies for assuming you did not know about the word “baptismos.”
I merely get the impression that you don't know the word well enough because you don't know how it is translated in the Bible (See my next point).



The word baptismos is translated like this though.

Source:
Baptismos - BlueLetterBible.org



It's clear that baptismos in reference to the doctrine of baptisms in Hebrews 6:2.



This again was until the time of reformation as Hebrews 9:10 says. We see Paul rebaptize Ephesian believers in Acts 19 who knew only of John's water baptism. Apollos in the previous chapter (Acts 18) only knew of John's water baptism (Acts 18:25), and Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly (Acts 18:26).

Um, what are you trying to prove here?

John's baptism was baptizo.

All of the baptisms done in the name of Jesus were baptizo

Jewish washing were not included in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The writer of Hebrews was teaching Jewish converts not to go back into Judaism.

None of the apostles taught salvation had anything to do with baptismos.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus did not save Judas for his sorrow.
The fact he saved the thief proves he had GODLY sorrow which leads to repentance, 2Corinthians 7:10.

Your speculating about the thief. You cannot prove he was saved at one time in his life.
You cannot prove he was not water immersed by John for the forgiveness of sins Mark 1:4-5

Your argument cannot be proven, so it should be abandoned

I already proved the thief was not saved prior because he admitted his crimes of being crucified like all the rest who were there being crucified for their crimes (Except for Jesus). A believer who is converted does not persist to live like the old man and do evil junk that leads them to be crucified.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Um, what are you trying to prove here?

John's baptism was baptizo.

All of the baptisms done in the name of Jesus were baptizo

Jewish washing were not included in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The writer of Hebrews was teaching Jewish converts not to go back into Judaism.

None of the apostles taught salvation had anything to do with baptismos.

Hebrews 6:12 is baptismos and it is for the word baptisms in reference to the doctrine of baptisms.
So the word can mean either baptisms or washings. Meaning the same thing.

Hebrews 9:10 is saying that the washings or baptism was until the time of reformation.

 

[Titus]

I already proved the thief was not saved prior because he admitted his crimes of being crucified like all the rest who were there being crucified for their crimes (Except for Jesus). A believer who is converted does not persist to live like the old man and do evil junk that leads them to be crucified.

YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOUR OWN BELIEF THAT CHRISTIANS DO GO BACK INTO SIN.
Are you now a believer in OSAS

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyways, I gotta turn in to sleep.

May God bless you in the mean time.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOUR OWN BELIEF THAT CHRISTIANS DO GO BACK INTO SIN.
Are you now a believer in OSAS

*Sigh*

I am not a believer in OSAS. No. Believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to make it.
Okay. I gotta sleep. Have a blessed evening.

 

[Titus]

Hebrews 6:12 is baptismos and it is for the word baptisms in reference to the doctrine of baptisms.
So the word can mean either baptisms or washings. Meaning the same thing.

Hebrews 9:10 is saying that the washings or baptism was until the time of reformation.

If you are trying to apply baptismos to water immersion in the name of Jesus Christ?
Then give one scripture where that is implied.

That is more speculation

 

[Titus]

You teach Christians do lose their salvation because they go back into sin.

Now to try and prove the thief was not possibly already saved by John's baptism
You say this,

I already proved the thief was not saved prior because he admitted his crimes of being crucified like all the rest who were there being crucified for their crimes (Except for Jesus). A believer who is converted does not persist to live like the old man and do evil junk that leads them to be crucified

This is more contradiction by you.

You can't have it both ways Sir.

Either you believe and teach others that Christians can become wicked enough to loose there salvation.
I know you have already taught and believe this.

Now you are saying the thief could not have been saved prior to the cross because a Christian would not do such an evil act to get themselves crucified.

That is hard to swallow Sir.

Your thief on the cross argument is no good.

As I have already explained,

The thief on the cross had faith alone?
Belief only?
The thief had repentance.
Godly sorrow for His sins against God.

Once a person is saved and then sins, what does God teach we must do?
1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

After initial salvation, when we sin we must repent by confessing our sin to God.

You must speculate by teaching the thief was not already saved at one point in his life.
This is why all he would have had to do on the cross was believe and repent.

Repentance is not belief.

There goes faith only.

So far we have the Thief
believing 1
Repenting 2
That is more than faith alone.

The thief could have been obedient to Gods commands to be saved yet fell away.

No one that claims the thief never did works to be saved can prove that claim.

All the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea were baptized by John to be saved.
The thief was a Jew. To say he was not baptized is without any evidence to prove this claim.

Mark 1:4
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1:5
Then all the land of Judea and those from Jerusalem went out to him in the Jordan river confessing their sins.

The thief could have been baptized to be saved, then later in life commited sin.

No one can prove he wasn't baptized
No one can prove he was.

So, this argument that he did no works to be saved is pure speculation.

Now we have:

Faith 1
Repentance 1
Baptism 1

That is not faith only!

The thief showed Godly sorrow for his sins,

2Corinthians 7:10
For Godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

This is a fictitious story that the thief was saved by his belief and nothing else.

Repentance is a work also.
All commandments of God are works of righteousness that we must work/obey

Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.
Mark 1:4
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

 

[farouk]

Don't just skip past this, learn this passage.

Romans 7:1-6 KJV
1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Much love!

Hebrews 12 also; verse 7 shows that the law was changed and verse 12 shows that what we now have is better - a keyword in Hebrews - than the law.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The problem that you will run up against is that nowhere in Scripture does it say that water baptism is done for salvation or entering God's kingdom.

No, NO problem at all = Will God:

Allow THESE salvation/entrance into His kingdom?:

Luk 7:29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This answer contradicts your second phase of salvation.

No it doesn't because too whom much is given, much is required. Those who die on their deathbed are not given the same requirement as those who lived out their faith and had time to study the Bible, and apply it to their lives.

Also, I have given you an example of a person hired at a job vs. them who actually work at the job. To be hired is not the same as working at the job. There is a difference between coming to God for the first time vs. walking with God. But then again you ignore such distinctions because it does not line up with your belief of water baptism for salvation (Which is a work) that you make as the entrance gate and foundation of your salvation. Thus verses like Romans 11:6 cannot apply for you.

Romans 11:6
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

We cannot say in good conscience that the Law of Moses alone was the problem for the Jew in not accepting grace or the Messiah. The disciples followed the Law of Moses and yet they followed Jesus. Jesus was not against the Law of Moses. The Pharisees were unable to come to bring themselves to be able to accept Jesus as their Messiah because they made salvation falsely all about their false Pharisee religion of Works ALONE Salvationism without God's grace. We read in the following passage.

Romans 9:30-31
“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;”

The law of righteousness (or the righteous aspect of the Old Law which applies under the New Covenant) that the Jew did not attain is loving your neighbor (Romans 8:3-4) (Romans 13:8-10).

Why did they not attain this aspect of the Old Law?
It was because they sought it not by faith but by works.
We see the same problem Jesus had with a Pharisee in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14. Jesus said of the Tax Collector, “And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other.” (Luke 18:13-14). What was the problem with the Pharisee? He was thinking he was better than everyone else (including the Tax Collector) and he was so much more righteous and better than the Tax Collector and others. But Jesus said the Tax Collector was more justified. No doubt the underlying problem (that is not written) is that the Pharisee did not do the same thing as the Tax Collector. The Pharisee did not cry out to God and seek forgiveness of his sins when first coming to God and realize that we are all initially and foundationally saved by God's grace and not in anything that we do ourselves alone. This Pharisee sought things by works and not by faith (trust in God and his grace).

But you have the same mind as the Jews in that you seek it not by faith but by works (water baptism) as your entrance gate and foundation. You are making the core of salvation all about what you do vs. giving the glory to God in being saved by trusting in what Jesus did for us (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and in throwing yourself down upon His mercy and grace (forgiveness) (Romans 10:13) (Hebrews 4:16). You seek to help God out in being saved when you come to Him. You seek it by works and not by grace. See again Romans 11:6 and Romans 9:30-31.

That only those that obey God and keep His commandments are saved.

Again, 1 John 3:23 says to believe in Jesus is a commandment. This is not a WORK but a belief in Jesus. So this proves there are grace commands. It does not mean it is a work command or a Sanctification Command.

I agree about babies.
Why even bring them up. It does not prove your gospel true.
Babies are saved without believing in the gospel.

I bring them up because you have a one salvation fits all package mindset like Perpetual Belief Alone Christians.

Deathbed salvation.
If faith alone were true then yes this could be true.

Yes, it is true because we read about something similar with the thief on the cross.
The thief was not saved prior because he admitted his crimes openly with the other criminals. While believers can go prodigal (and slip into a state of spiritual death) and come back to the saving of their soul if they seek forgiveness and rededicate their life to the everlasting Father (Jesus Christ) (Luke 15:11-32), it seems highly unlikely that this would happen so soon with a new convert who is changed by the Lord's good ways. The thief also did not appear to speak as being a disciple of Jesus. For the thief speaks of how this man (Jesus) has done nothing wrong. So he is not speaking with familiarity as if He ever knew Jesus at any point in time (to be a disciple).

Besides, even if the thief was water baptized by John, Peter makes it clear that baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (sin), but it is an answer of having an already good conscience towards God (1 Peter 3:21) (Note: 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh is in reference to sin). So John the baptist would have the people confess of their sins to God, and then he would baptize them in that their conscience is cleaned as a ceremonial act that they were cleansed spiritually by the real reality of seeking forgiveness with the Lord. Baptism never truly saved in the salvific sense ever (even with John the Baptist). The real reality of forgiveness was confessing your sins part (See: 1 John 1:9).

It still contradicts your second phase of salvation.
This doctrine of yours, makes God have favoritism towards those who do nothing.
Than those who must do works.

So a baby who did nothing and dies and is saved shows favoritism. For you admit babies who die are saved.

he problem with your deathbed confession is, it is a false premise.

No one is going to be saved just because they believe in Jesus.
They must have a heart to believe and obey Jesus. Then God will save them on their deathbed.
Just wanting to be saved without wanting to obey God never saved anyone.

I agree that a person has to be willing to obey. But if they die and did no works then they are saved by faith alone and or by God's grace and not by any works. That's the point your not getting.

If someone cannot obey Jesus' gospel because of physical hindrances.
That is out of a persons control.
But if that same person has no desire to obey Gods commandments.
There belief alone cannot save them on their deathbed.

We are not talking about insincere people. We are talking about those who genuinely want to seek forgiveness with God and those who do will of course have a desire to forsake their sin and not play games. But the point is that if they die and cannot do any works.... they are saved by faith alone because they did not do anything laborious to be saved.

You still have contradictions in your gospel.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is not a contradiction. It means what it says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus did not save Judas for his sorrow.
The fact he saved the thief proves he had GODLY sorrow which leads to repentance, 2Corinthians 7:10.

Your speculating about the thief. You cannot prove he was saved at one time in his life.
You cannot prove he was not water immersed by John for the forgiveness of sins Mark 1:4-5

Your argument cannot be proven, so it should be abandoned

I think God did not put certain details in the Bible for a reason. God could have backed up your claim and shown how the thief was water baptized but He did not put that in Scripture. Why? Because God wanted to show a testimony of how a man was saved without doing anything physically laborious. That's how it reads when we read the story instead of over analyzing it. Jesus said, “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.” (Mark 10:15). A childlike reading of the story does not exist in your viewpoint here. If the man was even saved prior and he lost his salvation, he was not restored by being water baptized again to be saved again. His restoration was not a work, but it was grace (if indeed he was water baptized - which I don't believe is the case - but even if it were - it does not apply to salvation - See again 1 Peter 3:21).

 

[farouk]

*Sigh*

I am not a believer in OSAS. No. Believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to make it.

Do you really believe in, saved Monday, lost again Tuesday, saved again Wednesday, not sure about Thursday...etc.?

I do believe indeed in confessing and forsaking sin; this is Scriptural and the characteristic of the truly born again; but those who live and die in sin - whatever their profession - can hardly be regarded even as having been saved in the first place.

Philippians 1.6: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you are trying to apply baptismos to water immersion in the name of Jesus Christ?
Then give one scripture where that is implied.

That is more speculation

I gave you the link to BlueLetterBible for the word baptismos.

Source:
G909 - baptismos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

It shows you that the same Greek word baptismos is used for both Hebrews 6:2 and Hebrews 9:10.
HOWEVER... the English words are different!
Hebrews 6:2 translates baptismos as..... baptisms.
Hebrews 9:10 translates baptismos as.... washings.

Strong's Number G909 (baptismos) can be seen below in it's usage:

Baptismos (G909) as washings:

Baptismos (G909) as baptisms:

They mean the same thing according to the context.
Washings in Hebrews 9:10 would have included water baptism because it is is a part of the Old Covenant washing ceremonies.

 

[marks]

Hebrews 12 also; verse 7 shows that the law was changed and verse 12 shows that what we now have is better - a keyword in Hebrews - than the law.

Did you actually mean Hebrews 12 here?

Hebrews 12:7 KJV
7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But maybe you did, because as I'm thinking about this verse, yes, the Law was changed, because we endure chastening as sons, not judgment as sinners.

Hebrews 12:12 KJV
12) Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

And this verse tells us we can in fact lift up those hanging hands and feeble knees.

But were you thinking of a different chapter?

Much love!