The Smoke of their Torment Ascends Forever

[Taken]

Let me ask you what you believe that the *biblical* definition of a “soul” is?

In brief I believe the soul activates the life of a human body.

What did the ancient Jews (like Solomon and David) believe that a “soul” was?
What about Moses, who wrote Genesis?

You can research their answers.

What do the Christian scriptures teach that a “soul” is? Are the definitions different?
Did God give one definition to the ancients and a different one to the Christian disciples of Jesus?

You can do your own research.

God created a body for Adam from the dust (or elements) of the earth (which science confirms).
But reading Genesis 2:7 we see that God breathed “life” into Adam’s body and began the process by which all things live....”breathing”.
"And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul (nep̄eš)." (Genesis 2:7 Jewish Tanakh)

I SEE the highlight differently...
Gods Works;
(Gods Hands, Gods Breath, God identifying one of His Creations; Man-KIND)

* God Formed a body, ie Created of Dust.
AND
* God Made that Form, ie Made Alive.

According to Strongs, the same word is used for all the "creatures" that God created (Genesis 1:20-30).....all are "souls". We all breathe the same air and die the same death and go to the same place.....so please tell me why Solomon could say that humans have no advantage over animals in death, if that was not true? (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) Are we to assume that animals also have some spiritual part of them that goes somewhere else at death?

The issue is not breathing oxygen.

Does it say that God “gave” Adam a “soul”? Or does it say that Adam “BECAME” a “soul” when God started him breathing?

Scripture is Clear...Something that was NOT IN a form-ED man-KIND of thing, was ENTERED INTO the man-KIND of thing.
AND THEN
WHAT? The non Living created Man-KIND of Creation was MADE ALIVE is called a
LIVING SOUL.

When you answer my first question about what a “soul” is in the Bible, you will see that any animate, living, breathing creation of God is called a “soul” in Genesis. (Hebrew, nep̄eš or neʹphesh, which literally means “a breathing creature”.) Most translations will render it "creature" but it is the same word for "soul"....a "breather".

A Created FORM, called a man, WITH a LIVING SOUL “IN” that FORM, is called a Living soul.
What do you call a Formed man, WITHOUT a Living soul “IN” that formed man? A DEAD body. A DEAD man.

When we (any living creature) stop breathing we die....like Ezekiel 18:4 says....
"Behold, all souls are Mine. Like the soul of the father, like the soul of the son they are Mine; the soul that sins, it shall die." (Jewish Tanakh) Souls are mortal. So there is no claim from scripture that can be made to state otherwise.

You are ignoring the Form and concentrating on the Soul.
The Form IS MORTAL...It’s LIFE IS BLOOD, not “oxygen”.
Nothing says the SOUL is ‘mortal’.
Death is physical or spiritual.
A physical living man can be called DEAD, while he is alive.

Animals were not created in God's image and so they have a natural cycle of life and are 'programmed' for death...unlike humans for whom death is foreign....something to be avoided at all costs. We were not created to die. If humans had not sinned, they never would have died. (Genesis 3:22-24) God had to deny access to the "tree of life" to carry out the death penalty. And since God told them that "in the day they ate from it they would surely die"....what then was the "day" God spoke about?
2 Peter 3:8...answers...
"But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day."
Not a single "soul" made it to 1,000 years old....so all died before a "day" was over for them.

Too convoluted to respond.

Read the scriptures without the *immortal soul* lens and you will see the truth.....

*immortal soul*

When “I” say ^ that, you can offer your advice. To date, I have not said that!

 

[post]

Person is the natural body. Already addressed body’s can be destroyed.

person is not only the natural body; therefore not the natural body at all, which is temporal. this is exactly the reason Christ, who is eternal life, said do not fear those who can only destroy the body -- fear Him who can destroy both body and soul: which is not a promise He annihilates all souls, but a warning that He is able; to His glory; nothing is impossible with Him.

which begs the question of His holy character.
as you yourself agreed and confessed, His purpose for the spiritual is that it exists forever.
as befits His holiness and everlasting lovingkindness

as you yourself agreed and confessed, mankind is not a merely physical being, but has a non-physical ((spiritual)) component. you yourself argued: the spiritual is not destroyed by the death of the physical body: that is the will of God, expressed through the existence of angels, and if it was not, God would never have appeared as a man, in the physical person of Jesus, our Lord and Christ: and would certainly not argue in His own scripture that whoever is apart from Him does not have life - by obvious extension, has death: which is not speaking of 'death' in terms of the separation of life from the flesh, but the separation of the person from Christ: because by His own definition, many live according the flesh even today, but are dead according to the spirit even while according to the flesh they live.

anyone who reads and understands the text, it is incumbent upon to know the difference.

the gospel is a witness to the angels. it isn't merely about us.
they saw our creation; they saw our fall; they see our redemption and salvation
our justification and glorification
it is for them to witness: they, of whom 1/3 fell into antichrist: into the second death. separated from God, yet existing, separate. in weeping and gnashing of teeth; without rest.

cessation of striving is rest.
cessation of existence is peace. no more tears.
they have no rest, day and night, forever.

see any logical contradictions in any private, popular theology?
obviously they do not cease to exist. what they cease from, is LIFE.
this is THE WAY - he dies, yet lives eternally with an indestructible life.
he lays down His life; He takes it up again. Therefore He does not cease to exit: it is He who rises, not a fake copy of Him to deceive us. Him. Very God of Very God; Very Man of Very Man.

this isn't hard.
it only requires faith.

anything less is atheistic monism, denying the very existence of the spiritual/non-physical.
we are not only our bodies; otherwise there is no such thing as salvation.

or will you align yourself with the likes of tele-person, who teaches Jesus is annihilated? who believes that physical animation is the only life? that separting the spirit from the body is the only death, and that it is cessation of existence, as though physical animation of dust is the only existence?
bro that's obvious heresy! forget what this forum allows to run rampant: what is TRUTH?
that God brought every soul into existence for the express purpose of destroying their existence? that is exactly the position of those who hate God; The Lie of Satan, Exodus 17:3, accusing God of murder.

 

[Brakelite]

If I said, the smoke of the fire went up for a week, what would you conclude of the fire? That there was a fire sending up smoke? Or that the fire, being fully extinguished, continued to send up smoke?

If there's a raging global fire that incinerates everything on the planet prior to the creation of the new heaven and the new earth, and that fire runs out of fuel and becomes noon existent, it windy still be sending up smoke, yet will there not still be smoke rising

Again, my point is . . . they did in fact die, on that very day, as it is written.

Much love!

No they didn't. Jesus stepped in as the Lamb again from the foundation of the world and give them a window of opportunity to repent.

 

[quietthinker]

Well, that's what I'm trying to say!

:)

Life and death.

Did Adam die the day he ate from the forbidden tree, as God said he would? Or no? How do you answer that?

My answer is that Adam died that very same day, God not being a liar. Do you accept that is true?

Much love!

lol...physical he lived nearly another 1000 yrs though diminishing.
I see you have some other take marks....do you want to spill it?

 

[quietthinker]

pardon me, but it is explicitly speaking of the soul continuing to exist apart from the separation of the spirit from the body, being an entity distinct from the body, and 'going somewhere' not once but twice.

'insanity' is an abstract & non-specific description of a temporary state of mind. the soul is not, not as the scripture describes it. the soul is a definite & non-physical 'thing' unique to a person.

i mean, if we believe it.
but maybe some of us don't.
((some of us clearly don't))

granted this doesn't have to be a point in Euclidean space -- we should hardly expect it is, because we are talking about a non-physical object. but the soul clearly can occupy a physical object ((the body)) even though it is itself non-physical.

I see your view as a fantasy ....I don't buy it.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello to you reader,

Who is their and they?

Who is the man, known as the beast? Did you know in this time people would be worshipping statues even after Nero had died. There was a rumor that Neros spirit was still alive and it terrified the people. Very interesting character that really played a role in history, which lead to the down fall of his and we’re commanded basically to take force with the Roman Empire with Nero Ceaser, who was killing and putting Christians to death.

The you also have Jewish people in the early Ads before their temple had fell. Who were Jewish by blood, however they decided to crucify the messiah, therefore with all of these things going on it would seem there is a lot of context to consider. Those early Jewish people were also putting other believers to death, however God was going to correct everything as his son paid for sin, and paid for the law in full for all people.

How tormenting for those Christians Romans, and Christians in Jerusalem, and Judah as the last days grew worse and worse as they waited for the return of the Lord to vanquish all of this dread and evil that has came upon the World, so that the world can be reconciled back to God, through Jesus.

Now anyone is able to come to God freely, and know that Jesus accepts them just as they are, and desires a relationship with them.

in Christ, keep praying asking God seeking Him,
Matthew Gallagher

(I believe secular history from the past had a conclusion also to knowing the ending of Revelation a bit better; if you consider that God gave the nation of Israel the Law of Moses, they were also given a lot of land by Joshua.

Through out this time span you have many writers who are having encounters with God all during the same times periods in which everything is kind written all together at the same time. There was also going to be a restoration with God, and with the The Law having been paid for by Jesus: the chosen nation was guilty because of not believing and rejecting the messiah the son of God.

This all concludes and brings me to, when Jesus talked about the tenants, who the last one the renter would own was send out his son, in hope that they would respect and honor him. Instead they said to themselves let’s kill him, and we keep everything to ourselves.

This calls to my mind, the wrath of God being poured out the nation of Israel as a righteous judgment and had carried out everything pertaining to that nation then in that time period, which lead the to down fall of Satan and his demons, second death being done away with, the lake of fire for the false, prophet, Satan are done and over, the grave/hell/Sheol done completely over, sin had been paid for and is done away with for all people; sin leads us to needing a savior when we realize what we done.

Which leaves only two destinations for people in the heavenly Kingdom: unbelievers on the outside of the gate that is never supposed to be kept shut, and the inside of the gate where, God and the Lamb are, where you may have the right to the tree of life. (Revelation 22)

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[Aunty Jane]

In brief I believe the soul activates the life of a human body.

That is not what it says in Genesis....it says Adam "became" a soul when God started him breathing, so what else was activated?
What is activated when a newborn takes their first breath?

You can research their answers.

I have already, but have you? This is why I asked you, but you have given no answer.
How can you have a belief if you don't know what the writer of Genesis meant when he wrote his account about creation?

The issue is not breathing oxygen.

Leviticus 17:11-12....Tanakh...
"For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I have therefore given it to you [to be placed] upon the altar, to atone for your souls. For it is the blood that atones for the soul.".....why? Because blood represents life itself......it is atonement for the soul that has sinned. Jesus' blood atones for our sin.

This vital substance is what keeps every cell in our body oxygenated. It nourishes every part of us, and when breathing ceases, the heart stops, and...the soul dies...why? From lack of oxygen. What Jesus' sacrifice accomplishes for us is redemption, or a buying back something that was forfeited. Adam forfeited his life and also the lives of all his children.....Jesus bough our lives back for us by paying with his own blood.

Ezekiel 18:4 says "the soul that sins dies".....we all sin. (Romans 5:12)

You are ignoring the Form and concentrating on the Soul.
The Form IS MORTAL...It’s LIFE IS BLOOD, not “oxygen”.
Nothing says the SOUL is ‘mortal’

....except Ezekiel 18:4 which says that souls die. If you die, that is mortality. Animals are "souls" and we know they die...do they have an afterlife?

The human soul is the whole person.....it cannot live without a body, nor can it function without a brain. I gave you the scripture from the Jewish Tanakh...(I assume that Jews can speak Hebrew....?) They translate nep̄eš or neʹphesh as "creature".....not as something separate and mysterious inside a creature....but the creature itself.

If "Old King Cole was a merry old soul" what does that actually mean?

Death is physical or spiritual.
A physical living man can be called DEAD, while he is alive.

Indeed....so death is metaphorical for what happens when a person rejects God and is rejected by him in return.
Dead still means "dead"....the metaphorically "dead" will end up "physically" dead all the same.

Too convoluted to respond.

Or perhaps too confronting to consider...? The scriptures tell their own story and no one can make them say what they do not.
There is no spiritual part of man that is separate from his body. Consciousness for humans is inextricably tied to our brain. Only brain death can extinguish a soul. Only brain death leads to irreversible physical death.

When “I” say ^ that, you can offer your advice. To date, I have not said that!

Well, since you believe that the soul or spirit are separate from the body and can presumably exist consciously elsewhere, it is apparent that you have never studied these words in their original languages. If the Jews had belief in a separate soul that survived death, you would assume that it would be written in the OT accounts, as well as featuring in Jesus' teachings. He never said a word about that.

 

[n2thelight]

If I said, the smoke of the fire went up for a week, what would you conclude of the fire? That there was a fire sending up smoke? Or that the fire, being fully extinguished, continued to send up smoke?

OK . . . I know . . . someone, maybe you, is all poised to say, but the "flames" were out, only the embers were smoking.

OK.

The smoke from combustion went up all week. Does that help? Where there is smoke, there is . . . combustion.

The Smoke of their Torment Ascends forever. Where there is smoke, there is ____________.

A: Torment

The smoke is the smoke of their torment, not just smoke.

I realize there are some who cannot countenance such a straightforward reading, as they will say, but people are not eternal!

What if we were to set aside conclusions, doctrines, things like that, and only look at what the passage itself says? What does it say?

Revelation 14:9-12 KJV
9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Much love!

So you believe in eternal torment ?

 

[Taken]

person is not only the natural body; therefore not the natural body at all, which is temporal.

Disagree.
Person...a human being regarded as an individual.
Human comes from the dust of the Earth.
Human is the manKIND of body, whether or not it is ALIVE.

this is exactly the reason Christ, who is eternal life, said do not fear those who can only destroy the body -- fear Him who can destroy both body and soul: which is not a promise He annihilates all souls, but a warning that He is able; to His glory; nothing is impossible with Him.

Soul comes from the breath of God.
Soul is Living, weather or not it is IN the a Body.

which begs the question of His holy character.

Disagree.
That which Applies TO Christ Jesus, is not dependent Upon that which Applies to a Human man.

as you yourself agreed and confessed, His purpose for the spiritual is that it exists forever.
as befits His holiness and everlasting lovingkindness.

I did not say that was His “purpose”.

as you yourself agreed and confessed, mankind is not a merely physical being, but has a non-physical ((spiritual)) component. you yourself argued:

Not arguing...Stating my belief. Clarifying in MY words.
An Earthly man IS a body, formed by God.
An Earthly formed body, Receives a soul, from Gods Breath.
An Earthly formed body, WITH Gods Breath IN it, is a Living Formed body.

the spiritual is not destroyed by the death of the physical body:

Correct.
The spiritual spirit is not destroyed, by the death of the physical body.

that is the will of God, expressed through the existence of angels,

and if it was not, God would never have appeared as a man, in the physical person of Jesus, our Lord and Christ:

Uh, don’t go along with your consensus.

and would certainly not argue in His own scripture that whoever is apart from Him does not have life -

Uh, don’t agree that Jesus argued anything.

by obvious extension, has death: which is not speaking of 'death' in terms of the separation of life from the flesh, but the separation of the person from Christ: because by His own definition, many live according the flesh even today, but are dead according to the spirit even while according to the flesh they live.

* You are convoluting your point.
A natural born man “WITH” Gods Breath of Life...does not Begin its natural life “WITH” Christ, to then BECOME “separated” FROM CHRIST.

Gods Breath of Life, (IN the soul, IN the man), is one thing. <- Gods breath
Christ’s quickening of a mans spirit, is an entirely different thing. <- mans spirit.

IOW -
*An Earthly Formed Body, IS brought into a LIVING STATE, via Gods Breath,
WHEN, Gods BREATH enters the Formed Body.
*An Earthly Formed natural spirit of man, IS brought into a LIVING STATE, via the POWER of God, (who IS Christ),
WHEN, Gods Spirit enters the (new) Heart of the Formed Body.

anyone who reads and understands the text, it is incumbent upon to know the difference.

Sure, but I do not see that you clearly expressed a precise difference.

 

[Taken]

... the gospel is a witness to the angels. it isn't merely about us.

~ The Scriptures particularly Written IS for mans Benefit, to hear and Learn, bit by bit, and have a trustworthy verification source.
~ The Angels (IMO) were created WITH the Knowledge, (different from man who must hear and learn, bit by bit.)

they saw our creation; they saw our fall; they see our redemption and salvation our justification and glorification
it is for them to witness: they, of whom 1/3 fell into antichrist:

Sure...the Angels are Gods WITNESSES, of Gods creation and making concerning the Earth and it’s inhabitants.
Sure...One Angel (Lucifer), was given “great power and influence”, and used his power, to KILL THE WORD OF GOD and used his influence effecting ⅓ of other angels to Follow him.

...into the second death. separated from God, yet existing, separate. in weeping and gnashing of teeth; without rest.
cessation of striving is rest.
cessation of existence is peace. no more tears.
they have no rest, day and night, forever.

Convoluting. A second death does not Apply to Angels.

see any logical contradictions in any private, popular theology?
obviously they do not cease to exist. what they cease from, is LIFE.
this is THE WAY - he dies, yet lives eternally with an indestructible life.
he lays down His life; He takes it up again. Therefore He does not cease to exit: it is He who rises, not a fake copy of Him to deceive us. Him. Very God of Very God; Very Man of Very Man.

Convoluting.

this isn't hard.
it only requires faith.

Gods ORDER and WAY is necessary for a man to receive the KNOWLEDGE of Gods HOW and WHY.
FAITH is a Gift from God necessary to EFFECT the HOW and WHY.

or will you align yourself with the likes of tele-person, who teaches Jesus is annihilated? who believes that physical animation is the only life? that separting the spirit from the body is the only death, and that it is cessation of existence, as though physical animation of dust is the only existence?
bro that's obvious heresy! forget what this forum allows to run rampant: what is TRUTH?
that God brought every soul into existence for the express purpose of destroying their existence? that is exactly the position of those who hate God; The Lie of Satan, Exodus 17:3, accusing God of murder.

Irrelevant “wondering” questions for you to pose to me.
My own testimony has expressly revealed My own standing.

 

[Taken]

That is not what it says in Genesis....it says Adam "became" a soul when God started him breathing, so what else was activated?
What is activated when a newborn takes their first breath?

Convoluting.
Adam was created and made, NOT BORN.
A “newborn”, created and made, and IS BORN.

I have already, but have you? This is why I asked you, but you have given no answer.

What exactly is your precise question?

How can you have a belief if you don't know what the writer of Genesis meant when he wrote his account about creation?

I have no issue with MY belief, or MY understanding of Gods creation.

Leviticus 17:11-12....Tanakh...
"For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I have therefore given it to you [to be placed] upon the altar, to atone for your souls. For it is the blood that atones for the soul.".....why? Because blood represents life itself......it is atonement for the soul that has sinned. Jesus' blood atones for our sin.

Not news. Have already said, BLOOD is the Life of the Body.
What about it?

says Adam "became" a soul when God started him breathing, so what else was activated?

Adam was Created, from the dust of the Earth, by Gods Hand FORMING a thing God called a manKIND of thing. If you continue Learning, you would discover that FORMED “manKIND” of thing....is called A BODY...a particular KIND of SHAPE.

Genesis 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

*(,)... So pause there for a moment.
A thing, called a man, FORM-ED, notifies us the ACT OF FORMING was, the act of God CREATING that thing WAS COMPLETE...
FORM-ED.

*Was ADAM, alive? No
*Was ADAM, born? No
*Was ADAM, dead? No
*Was ADAM, a clump of dust, FORMED into a particular SHAPE? Yes
*WHAT was “unique” about that FORMED clump of dust?

First of all, the FORMED thing, was CREATED out from the EXISTING Earth.
What is the EARTH? Dry Land.
What is IN the Earth? Elements, such as oxygen, water, minerals, etc.
What is IN the FORMED BODY? The SAME elements that are IN the Earth.
The uniqueness of God Creating a FORMED man OUT of the EARTH....
IS: a stand alone testament of His POWER.
....but oops...that CREATED THING out of the EARTH, HAS NO LIFE!

Still pausing, until you soak in the stand alone knowledge of Gods Creation of a man.

 

[post]

~ The Scriptures particularly Written IS for mans Benefit, to hear and Learn, bit by bit, and have a trustworthy verification source.
~ The Angels (IMO) were created WITH the Knowledge, (different from man who must hear and learn, bit by bit.)

the angels rejoiced when they saw us created, and longed to look into the things of the gospel

To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
(Ephesians 3:8-12)​

"to be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavens"
guess who the powers and principalities in the heavens are?
=]

 

[post]

I did not say that was His “purpose”.

muse on that with me then:

did He, in the sight of the angels, create the living souls with the purpose that He should annihilate them?
was God's intent of forming Adam to destroy Adam?

 

[Taken]

This vital substance is what keeps every cell in our body oxygenated. It nourishes every part of us, and when breathing ceases, the heart stops, and...the soul dies...why? From lack of oxygen. What Jesus' sacrifice accomplishes for us is redemption, or a buying back something that was forfeited. Adam forfeited his life and also the lives of all his children.....Jesus bough our lives back for us by paying with his own blood.

You have completely zoomed passed...Gods creation of a man.
There is no shortage of Oxygen, on the Earth.
A man breathing is not a learned behavior.
What oxygen does for a man is irrelevant at the point of God creating a man.

Still pausing....at the point...God created a FORMED man from the dust elements of the earth.

So what (do you factually KNOW) ABOUT this Creation of God called a FORMED MAN KIND of thing?

It HAS, it IS, flesh, skeleton bones, systems, tissue, blood, organs, a brain, a heart, a nerves, skin, eyes, ears, nose, tongue, mouth, etc. ??
It IS CREATED....NON FUNCTIONING?
It IS CREATED....WITHOUT its OWN LIVING LIFE SOURCE?

AND? WHAT?
Without its OWN functioning LIFE SOURCE...IT DOES NOTHING!

* So now, Having concluded Gods ACT of CREATING a manKIND of thing...
we come to an “AND” part, of Gods ACT of MAKING his created manKIND of thing... RECEIVE “something” FROM GOD.

Gen 2:
[7]...the LORD God (formed man of the dust of the ground), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

WHAT did the completely formed created manKIND of thing....RECEIVE?
“The breath of life”.

WHOSE BREATH of LIFE?
“Gods”.

HOW did the completely Formed created manKIND of thing.....RECEIVE Gods BREATH of LIFE?

WHEN...
“By Gods ACT of God BLOWING His Breath of Life....INTO the mans CREATED completely Formed nostrils of the mans CREATED completely Formed nose.

* So far is there ANY question in your mind, OF WHEN God BLOWS His Breath of LIFE, INTO a God FormED, God CreatED thing called a manKIND of thing?

PAUSE.... for the NEXT....”AND” part...

So far, a Created and completed Formed thing called a manKIND of thing...
HAS...a FORM, (we learn is called a body), IS...a FORM, (called a body).

 

[Taken]

@Aunty Jane ~

Gen 2:
[7] (...the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life....), and man became a living soul.

The 1st highlight Created Form called a man.
The 2nd highlight God breathed Life into that Created Formed man.
The 3rd highlight...

That Created Formed man, NOW is a LIVING man, By, Through, Of, Gods Works and Gods Soul....that that ALIVE man IS ALSO be called A LIVING SOUL.

The completely formed thing called a ManKIND of thing, HAS and IS a body, HAS and IS a Living soul...HAS LIFE IN It’s BODY....the Body AND the Living soul, RECEIVED a NAME, in this case, the NAME of the BODY and of the Living soul, IS ADAM.

So, WHEN God Formed the BODY...it was called CREATION.
WHEN God GAVE LIVE to the BODY....it IS called MAKING.

God did two Different WORKS...
God CREATED AND MADE ManKIND.

Gen 2
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The Creation of a mans BODY of Dust, is a phenomenal wondrous Act of God.
Every part intricately designed, to function and operate, ONCE IT HAS Gods Works, of Gods Source, of Making that BODY alive.

When you continue studying Scripture, you Discover:
The BODY came First, created.
The LIFE in the BODY, came Secondly, made.
The LIFE imparted INTO the Body is Gods Breath, IN a soul.
The Breath of Life Belongs to God.
The Soul Belongs to God.
The Life IN the Soul Belongs to God.
The Soul is Called by the SAME NAME as the BODY it is in.
The Soul ACTIVATES the BODY own created LIFE, to BECOME ALIVE.

The wondrous LIFE in the BODY is called BLOOD.
The wondrous ORGAN in the BODY, called a HEART, “keeps” the BLOOD moving throughout the BODY....Feeding, Nourishing, the BODY, maintaining ITS ACTIVATED LIFE...

WHEN, the Heart stops Beating, the Blood stops flowing, the LIFE (BLOOD) of the BODY stops ‘maintaining’ the LIFE OF the Body. The Body begins DYING.
AS the Body IS DYING....
The LIVING SOUL....DEPARTS the dying Body.

The created formed body of dust, called a man, that DIES, is called a physically DEAD man. The DEAD man is VOID of ALL LIFE....no Active flowing blood, no Living soul in it. That Body of that man, knows nothing, feels nothing. It begins decaying, stinking, decaying. It is buried or burned, prepared to Return to the Dust of the Earth from whence it came.

Pause...

 

[Taken]

@Aunty Jane ~

So WHAT about that, DEPARTED LIVING SOUL, that such soul Belongs to God, with Gods Breath of Life IN it?

That Soul did not come forth out of the Earth.
That Breath of Life did not come forth out of the Earth.
WHAT Becomes of THAT DEPARTED LIVING SOUL?

* Further learning of the Knowledge provided us in Scripture....tell us what becomes of Living Souls, DEPARTED out of Dying Body’s.

“IF”....that Living Soul........IS SAVED....that Departed LIVING SOUL, is escorted via A holy servant (ie angel) of God, UP to Heaven, (ie Gods Throne)....TO WAIT, in comfort....
“WAIT”....for “WHAT”?
“WAIT”.....for more of Gods prophetic works to be accomplished ON Earth, and IN others of Earths Inhabitants.

HOW or WHY and WHAT, determines “IF” a Living soul.....”IS” Saved?
What....is IF a man heartfully Believed in God, on the day of his bodily Death.
How.....is WHEN the body is dying, God SEARCHES the mans HEART, for the mans True Belief, that that man truly Believes IN God.
Why.....is Because ANY man, (from ancient OT to this Day), who BELIEVES in his Heart, in God on the day of his bodily physical death, that Departed Living soul SHALL Be SAVED ON that same DAY, and that Living soul, BE escorted UP to Heaven...fulfilling Gods Promise to that man, FOR that mans True Heartful Belief.

THE WHEN....a mans living soul IS SAVED, as exampled here....APPLIES expressly to ANY MAN, (WHO), heartfully believes, BUT IS NOT CONVERTED IN CHRIST.

This EXAMPLE, reveals WHO shall be raised in the FIRST resurrection...AFTER the Great Tribulation that comes down from Heaven UPON the Earth.

This EXAMPLE, addressed the BODY of a man and the LIVING SOUL of a man...NOT the “spirit of man”....which is a Another, precise part of a bodily man.

End.

 

[marks]

lol...physical he lived nearly another 1000 yrs though diminishing.
I see you have some other take marks....do you want to spill it?

Only what I've saying all along.

You need to have the understanding of what death is that matches how the Bible speaks of it. Death is not cessation of existance, the light ceases because the electricity ceases, are you really suggesting Jesus ceased to exist when He died on the Cross? Reconstituted from nothingness to come out of the tomb?

Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead (Col 1:18). Many people, I think, read that as, "Jesus was the first to come alive from being dead", but that's not the real sense of the passage. "The dead", there, as in many places similar to this, the dead are "the dead ones",

Romans 6:13 KJV
13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

The same thing in this passage, "As those that are alive from among the dead ones".

Life and death refer to our connection to and separation from God, and they refer to our connection to and separation from our body, but they do not refer to whether or not we exist.

Man became, and what he became was a living soul. He had connection to His body, and connection to God, and so he was alive physically, and alive spiritually. He lost connection to God on the day he ate from the forbidden tree, dying, he died. On that Very Day. Just as God said. "Hath God said you would died? Hm?" Yes, He did. And His Word is true.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So you believe in eternal torment ?

Isn't that what the Bible says?

Much love!

 

[Taken]

muse on that with me then:

did He, in the sight of the angels, create the living souls with the purpose that He should annihilate them?
was God's intent of forming Adam to destroy Adam?

God “MAKING” of Living souls was according to His Wisdom.
I find it pretty HANDY to have SOME part of God within a man.

I find it AWESOME, that God Loves His creations.
I find it AWESOME, that His creations have FREEWILL to Love Him in Return, or Reject Him as they freely Choose.

I find God Created and Made manKIND, “very good”....
And gave manKIND the freewill to remain “very good”....or do whatever he chooses.

I find God Offering to MAKE individual men, WHO Freely Choose to be MADE restored to “very good”.......that Option of “restoration”.

I ALSO find...the AWESOME Offering of God, to MAKE an EARTHLY MORTAL man....a SPIRITUAL forever LIVING MAN.....”IF” the man is WILLING to FREELY lay down his “MORTAL LIFE”.

Human men PRIZE their bodily life. No need to go into detail of the doting, caring, protecting, a man will do concerning his bodily life, it’s more than obvious.

HOWEVER....a mortal human, CAN NOT BECOME manifested INTO a Spiritual forever Living man.........UNTIL his Mortal bodily life DIES.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

It’s the same concept....of every SEED.
Examine a seed, fruit seed, tree seed, veg seed....it will do nothing until the the outer shell is broken, ie dead, and the inner part can THEN begin to grow.

 

[Taken]

Isn't that what the Bible says?

Much love!

Yep.
And...the understanding is...WHAT is forever ALIVE that can possibly suffer forever torment.....hint...(spirits) separated from God.