When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[Taken]

Yes, the Great Tribulation is about to begin with the unveiling of the Antichrist. Do not lose heart if you are still here, as if you missed the Rapture. The Rapture will be when Jesus comes again at the end, not before.

The Rapture is not Jesus’ Second Coming.
The Rapture is Lifting Up of those Converted IN Christ, ie already Saved.

 

[farouk]

I do think that the believer is looking for the Lord Jesus (Hebrews 12.2), not to signs and wonders. The Luke 21 and Matthew 24 passages seem to be speaking about events around tribulation saints after the church itself has gone.

Our role in the church is to serve the Lord faithfully in the Gospel, while we wait for His return.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Rapture is not Jesus’ Second Coming.
The Rapture is Lifting Up of those Converted IN Christ, ie already Saved.

And that is at the second coming when Jesus brings with Him only those who sleep in Jesus. IOW, they died before He came. He only comes back once. Until then, there will be those who die and those who are still alive at His coming. "Caught up" is the only Rapture, and as it explains here, with no mention of a previous "Rapture" as you believe, so please note that if there was a secret rapture of the alive and dead, then Jesus would be also bringing back those who are not asleep, but alive. Sorry, Jesus comes AFTER the Great Tribulation. Are you going to be ready for it? Are you willing to die for Christ and be martyred?

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

The Rapture is not Jesus’ Second Coming.

Yes it is.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven(second coming reference): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture ie: a gathering)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

 

[Taken]

And that is at the second coming when Jesus brings with Him only those who sleep in Jesus. IOW, they died before He came.

He only comes back once.

No one has Said The Son of Man RETURNS TWICE....why are you even making that statement, AS IF, you are addressing that being an issue?

Scripture teaches Gods Order and Way, you should pay close attention, of WHO He is called When He is Doing What.


The Son of Man came to Earth.
The Son of Man left Earth.
The Son of Man shall return to Earth.
The Archangel shall summon those IN Christ.
Those IN Christ in the Earth shall Rise up to the clouds.
Those IN Christ on the Earth shall Rise up to the clouds.
The Lord shall descend from Heaven to the clouds.
Those IN Christ shall Meet the Lord in the air.
Those IN Christ shall forever Be With the Lord.
God Shall Bring with Him in the First resurrection those who were not converted, but Died Believing in Jesus, same as He will Bring with Him all who Died Believing in God.

 

[Taken]

Yes it is.

No.
The Lord descending to the Clouds.
IS NOT.
The Son of Man Returning to the Earth!

 

[Ziggy]

I believe when Jesus was speaking about the Kingdom of God,
He was speaking about himself.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Heavens and earth have a lot of meanings to me, like layers of an onion.
I see heavens (mind) and earth (heart) .
Because this is the First and Greatest Commandment.
If the Lord isn't in your mind and in your heart, then you are living in your own righteousness.

And what does it mean that they will come in and sup with those who answer the knocking of the door?
The door to your heart and your mind.

I'm praying and have been for a good many years for a great awakening.
These last 5 years has been incredible watching all new faces coming to the Lord all around the world.
Perhaps someday we will live in a world where everyone's hearts and minds will be filled with His righteousness.

I believe the tide is turning...
It's going to be very rocky for the next year or two, but the enemy is losing.
He knows he has but a short time. And he is losing control of peoples hearts and minds and they are turning to the Lord.

I watch certain people acting out totally irrational, spitting out vitriol, attacking people for no reason.
They look and act possessed to me.
You can't talk to them. You can't reason with them.
But they are losing ground.
And even I have hope that at some point, their hearts and minds will be set free from this demonic possession holding to them.

Everyone has an interpratation, an understanding, an insight..
And I believe God uses these things not to divide us collectively, but to unite us individually.
Each person is an individual, and they are given a measure in which to reason.
I don't believe every person has the same measure or that whatever is in that measure is the same ingredient.

I also see heaven as the ruling authorities, whether they be Governments or Religious or Political leaders.
Those that rule the minds.
Then the earth is the common man. It is our hearts that put those above us in power by consent.
If the world is angry and greedy and bitter, we get angry greedy bitter leaders.

I see the war in heaven as a war on our minds. The devil cast to the earth is our struggle with sin.

I don't know what I believe about heaven being a location in particular with pearly gates and streets of gold.
We are told that each one of us is a member of His body, and members in particular.

I believe we will see a new heaven and a new earth, when people finally realize, He never left us.

Just some thoughts..
Hugs

 

[ewq1938]

No.
The Lord descending to the Clouds.
IS NOT.
The Son of Man Returning to the Earth!

Yes it is. He only pauses in the clouds.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, again you say "future" Jesus said "this generation." Now I am having to repeat myself--but not for long. You seem to want to wait with the dead.

As for the context, Jesus spoke of the kingdom of God many times--if you cannot put the pieces all together, you are only blinding yourself, just as others have. That may be all you get. As for me, He has given me more and I will be faithful to it (Him).

We disagree, a future generation that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and Lords return

"This Generation" is referring to a ",Future" generation, that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and the Lords return "Future" unfulfilled

1.) What is near, even at the doors, "The Lords Return"

2.) What is the the day and hour no man knows, "The Lords Return"

Matthew 24:33-
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Truth7t7]

I have answered these already.

You saying "future" is the thinking of men, of the flesh. Those things refer to matters of God, in whom there is no "future." He has broken His true existence down in a way that children can understand--for a time, which is "the same yesterday, today, and forever." But speaking most accurately, He simply explained His existence as "I am." That is also the nature of my answers to you: I am speaking plainly, not to children.

You are out of context. If you were in context--you would hear and understand.

You haven't answered the questions below

Is that seen below "Future", a novel sized response isnt needed

1.) Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

2.) 1 Corinthians 15:51-53KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

3.) Revelation 21:1KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No one has Said The Son of Man RETURNS TWICE....why are you even making that statement, AS IF, you are addressing that being an issue?

Scripture teaches Gods Order and Way, you should pay close attention, of WHO He is called When He is Doing What.


The Son of Man came to Earth.
The Son of Man left Earth.
The Son of Man shall return to Earth.
The Archangel shall summon those IN Christ.
Those IN Christ in the Earth shall Rise up to the clouds.
Those IN Christ on the Earth shall Rise up to the clouds.
The Lord shall descend from Heaven to the clouds.
Those IN Christ shall Meet the Lord in the air.
Those IN Christ shall forever Be With the Lord.
God Shall Bring with Him in the First resurrection those who were not converted, but Died Believing in Jesus, same as He will Bring with Him all who Died Believing in God.

I am addressing a pre-trib rapture stance erroneously called the Rapture.

 

[dad]

No.

OK

 

[dad]

These things...and the correct context...are of God, whom is the same yesterday, today, and forever. "Times" are times, only for explanation, for revelation--the terms are relative to our need to hear line upon line, precept upon precept as all truth unfolds in revelation. The truth includes no such terms or times--that was for us, here a little, there a little--otherwise the terms are not different, but the same: a time, times, and half a time...which is for us divided. But God is not divided, and in the end there is no such division of terms.

Renew your mind.

The three and a half years was given in weeks, months and tears, There can be only one correct context. People should be honest about not believing Scripture, rather than trying to obfuscate and confuse.

 

[dad]

Hello Dad,

I believe all these things happened with in a generation of which Jesus had stood in 30 ad

He returned to earth before He left it?

, and in to 40 or 38 years, Jerusalem would end up being destroyed and all the material worshiping that they performed would be obliterated. In which ushered in the new Heavens and the new earth - in which God can be fully and freely be worshiped at anywhere, compared to before it was only materially in Jerusalem.

The earth and heavens were not destroyed at all in 30 AD. That is ludicrous.

God brought in a new covenant in which the old one was waxing away and decaying, the Destruction of the Jewish way of life according to their worldly standards set forth by God in use of the law was going to be destroyed.

Having traditions of one nation undergo changes is not the end of the universe. Really.

Where ministry of reconciliation and ministry of the spirit can be had in and through Jesus who brought these things into fruition of the fulfilment of all the promises set forth, such as the defeat of Satan and his demons, sin, the grave, hell and separation from God.

Wasted empty words.

 

[Ziggy]

1.) Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Have you been watching the Trucker Convoy in Ottowa, Canada?

So many people coming together. Sharing food and clothing and blankets with the homeless.
So much love in the air.
And then there are these other people that are really thrashing out that they are there.
They don't see the love, they see terrorists. lol
What are they afraid of?

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Even so, Amen.

Hugs

 

[Taken]

I am addressing a pre-trib rapture stance erroneously called the Rapture.

What in your opinion should the pre-trib catching up be called?

 

[ewq1938]

What in your opinion should the pre-trib catching up be called?

Imaginary. It's not biblical. Pure fiction.

 

[Ziggy]

What in your opinion should the pre-trib catching up be called?

The Great Awakening

 

[Ziggy]

Wow I just found this LOL.
You have any idea how many bible verses I can find to with this???
What are they afraid of?

 

[Taken]

Yes it is. He only pauses in the clouds.

The Clouds are not Earth.