When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[dad]

Am I moving too fast? I thought the speed limit was C?

That depends if you try to move it all to the day Jesus and us return to earth.

 

[dad]

Where in Matthew 24 is this rapture .Or is He not speaking of the Church in that chapter?

Does the gathering together in the air have to be in every chapter? Is there something in this chapter that you feel says there will be no gathering in the air?

 

[dad]

Stay where you at ,one thing is certain, we will find out

Yes we will.

 

[n2thelight]

Does the gathering together in the air have to be in every chapter? Is there something in this chapter that you feel says there will be no gathering in the air?

The subject of the chapter is what, His return correct ?
Does this rapture take place before the 7th seal ?

 

[ewq1938]

The subject of the chapter is what, His return correct ?
Does this rapture take place before the 7th seal ?

Jesus remains in heaven when all 7 seals have been opened.

 

[n2thelight]

Jesus remains in heaven when all 7 seals have been opened.

I see it as Christ returns at the 7th Seal 7th Trump and 7th Vial

satan come first at 666

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not in body.
Anyone alive when they start to see the signs

Okay, I would say that Jesus was talking to first century Jewish people. But I agree with you that when the time is here, then all of us should be glad that our redemption is drawing near.

 

[dad]

The subject of the chapter is what, His return correct ?
Does this rapture take place before the 7th seal ?

As far as I can tell so far, He comes to take us away before the wrath starts. All the seals are part of the wrath I think. So I think it probably goes something like this...just before all hell breaks loose He comes back for us in the air. Then the Tribulation. Then the marriage supper. Then we return to earth with Him. Then He is seen by all and takes over the world, destroying enemies and ruling for 1000 years with us. Then the final throne judgment and the new heavens and earth. So when someone mentions to me that He will judge when He returns, yes, but I don't see it all happening the moment or day He comes back.

The OP is about how people that start to see some of the thing spoken of will be redeemed (taken in the air with Him receiving eternal bodies etc)

 

[dad]

Okay, I would say that Jesus was talking to first century Jewish people. But I agree with you that when the time is here, then all of us should be glad that our redemption is drawing near.

He was talking to them. He also talks to us all. That is why the bible is a living book and speaks to us. In the case of the prophesy about the end, He is specifically telling us that those people alive when those things start to happen will know their redemption is near. He also did some of this style of communicating in the old testament. Daniel was told the words were only to be understood in the end, for example.
Or Ps 102:
15 Nations will fear the name of the Lord,
and all the kings of the earth will fear your glory.
16 For the Lord builds up Zion;
he appears in his glory;
17 he regards the prayer of the destitute
and does not despise their prayer.


18 Let this be recorded for a generation to come,
so that a people yet to be created may praise the Lord:
19 that he looked down from his holy height;
from heaven the Lord looked at the earth,
20 to hear the groans of the prisoners,
to set free those who were doomed to die,
21 that they may declare in Zion the name of the Lord,
and in Jerusalem his praise,
22 when peoples gather together,
and kingdoms, to worship the Lord.

 

[n2thelight]

As far as I can tell so far, He comes to take us away before the wrath starts. All the seals are part of the wrath I think. So I think it probably goes something like this...just before all hell breaks loose He comes back for us in the air. Then the Tribulation. Then the marriage supper. Then we return to earth with Him. Then He is seen by all and takes over the world, destroying enemies and ruling for 1000 years with us. Then the final throne judgment and the new heavens and earth. So when someone mentions to me that He will judge when He returns, yes, but I don't see it all happening the moment or day He comes back.

The OP is about how people that start to see some of the thing spoken of will be redeemed (taken in the air with Him receiving eternal bodies etc)

What all hell will break loose?

 

[dad]

What all hell will break loose?

The Tribulation. Demons and Satan falling from above, demons from bottomless pit, the AntiChrist, etc.

 

[ewq1938]

I see it as Christ returns at the 7th Seal 7th Trump and 7th Vial

satan come first at 666

Nope. Satan comes from heaven in the 3rd trumpet and Christ returns at the 7th trumpet. All the seals have already been opened. They are just information of future events. I think we are in the 5th trump and possibly the 6th trump might sound which is the Great Tribulation.

 

[dad]

Nope. Satan comes from heaven in the 3rd trumpet and Christ returns at the 7th trumpet. All the seals have already been opened. They are just information of future events. I think we are in the 5th trump and possibly the 6th trump might sound which is the Great Tribulation.

I notice in the fourth seal it says 1/4 of mankind died. When was that?

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

I also notice this, which I had always thought referred to martyrs killed in the tribulation-
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So if these people are in heaven now, who are they?

The sixth seal sees all sorts of things out of this world serious-

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Not sure how we could be in either seal.

Even the third seal seems impossible to be history.

5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


So when did it take a days wages to buy bread?

Even the second seal seems more than history alone.

And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

When did that happen?

Finally the first seal has that rider that I have heard was the AntiChrist.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

So it could not have been the AC if you say we are in the sixth seal, so who was it?

 

[ewq1938]

I notice in the fourth seal it says 1/4 of mankind died. When was that?


So it could not have been the AC if you say we are in the sixth seal, so who was it?

I said I think we are in the 5th trump, not the 6th seal. The seals are only information about future events and they are not in chronological order. The first seal opened is the antichrist but he comes during the 6th trumpet. Each seal is connected to one of the 7 trumpets.

 

[n2thelight]

The Tribulation. Demons and Satan falling from above, demons from bottomless pit, the AntiChrist, etc.

satan comes in peacefully

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

II Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
satan is coming disguised as an "angel of light", and the true "Angel of Light" is Jesus Christ. He is coming disguised as the Savior,

Can you tell me exactly how he pulls this off ,if he's running around killing people?
Don't get me wrong people will die ,however it will be at the hands of Christians who think they do God a service

John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

Take a look below at the people who were deceived when they find out they were


Revelation 6:14 "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

At Jesus Christ's return there will be a mighty shaking. Those mountains are nations, and they will not only be moved, but removed and not exist as governing bodies. There will be only Christ's Kingdom left on this earth, as we move into the Millennium, the 1,000 year period of Christ's kingdom.

Revelation 6:15 "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"

All mankind except for God's elect, the remnant, and the 144,000 of chapter seven, will be part of Satan's [Antichrist's] kingdom. When the rest of the Christians see our Lord Jesus Christ coming, they will all know immediately what they have done. Then the shame will be great, to the point of wishing to perish, if it were possible. But it will not be possible for all souls will be changed into their incorruptible bodies at the coming of Christ. I Corinthians 15:50-54 reveals that no flesh and blood can nor will exist at that time, nor will any of the things dealing with the flesh body exist.

Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

This bears repeating, but if you simply cannot understand that the Antichrist comes first, before Jesus Christ's return, you will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ. This verse is describing how you will feel when you see the true Christ at the seventh trumpet. The fear will be so great that it will be a terror to your mind for the sins that you have committed in worshipping the false christ.


All hell will already be here and you won't even realize it, all Heaven gonna break loose though , 3 1/2 days after he kills the two witnesses.

 

[ewq1938]

satan comes in peacefully

I don't see any peaceful actions:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

 

[n2thelight]

I don't see any peaceful actions:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

So I'll pose the same question to you. How does satan pretend to be Christ while killing people, the only people that he will kill are the two witnesses

 

[dad]

I said I think we are in the 5th trump, not the 6th seal. The seals are only information about future events and they are not in chronological order. The first seal opened is the antichrist but he comes during the 6th trumpet. Each seal is connected to one of the 7 trumpets.

OK, so let's look at that.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

When did all that happen?

 

[ewq1938]

So I'll pose the same question to you. How does satan pretend to be Christ while killing people, the only people that he will kill are the two witnesses

In the same way Christ kills people in Revelation 19? People will support him killing people because that's what Jesus actually will do. He'll say they are apostates that worship a false Christ and they should be killed. Maybe he will present fake evidence of crimes and execute them for that. Who knows but most of the world will be so deceived he will be able to do anything he wants.

The 5th seal speaks of people that will die in the Great Tribulation, Revelation 13 says the saints will be overcome which means killed, and Revelation 20 speaks of those who were beheaded. Hard to say if these are all the same people being killed or if it's 3 different groups. But, Revelation 11 doesn't say all of the two witnesses are killed, just the two prophets which are one part of the two witnesses, the two olive trees. The two candlesticks are churches and that's an unknown amount of people. They might be the beheaded and 5th seal saints that are killed. Scripture doesn't explain it. The two churches might die, or not die or partially die. IMO the 144k are likely a group separate from the others and I think the seal keeps them alive. I think they are the living saints who are changed and rapture.

 

[ewq1938]

OK, so let's look at that.

6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

When did all that happen?

I don't know but if we are in a trumpet past those ones then they are from history. I also don't see most of those things as literal. The sea is usually symbolic of people, and mountains are where kingdoms exist, fire can be violence and war, trees can be people also.