The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Brakelite]

It’s all I need, but there is more.

Mark of the Beast
Quick Intro to SDA
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - Adventism & the Gospel

Haha. I'm not going to bother. You quote our enemies in order to discover who and what we are? All the while rejecting what we ourselves testify to here?
You are doing what the Jews did as Christ stood before Pilate. "Give us Barabus! We'll believe Christ's enemy, crucify Christ."

 

[mailmandan]

Haha. I'm not going to bother. You quote our enemies in order to discover who and what we are? All the while rejecting what we ourselves testify to here? You are doing what the Jews did as Christ stood before Pilate. "Give us Barabus! We'll believe Christ's enemy, crucify Christ."

Oh the irony and I quoted former SDA’s who are no longer enemies of the gospel.

 

[Phoneman777]

Heaven's atmosphere is one of service and selflessness of which the 10 Commandments are a reflection. It is this that Lucifer violated and persuaded the first pair to follow suit.

So, at which point in the "forever and ever" existence of God's commandments do they cease to exist? If you're saying there will come a time when the Ten Commandments no longer exist, how can we explain Psalms 111:7-8 KJV which plainly says the commandments God made and wrote with His hands will exist for eternity?

 

[GEN2REV]

Not wrong.

[Deu 29:1-2, 29 NASB95]
1 These are the words of the covenant which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the sons of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant which He had made with them at Horeb.

• Are you a “son of Israel who has EVER been in the land of Moab? No. Me neither. The covenant presented in this chapter was not presented to us. It would be like claiming that the US is part of Asia just because we WANT to be part of Asia.

2 And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, "You have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; ...

• Were your ancestors summoned by Moses to hear those words? No. Neither were mine. God was not speaking to us the promises in this chapter.
• Verses 1 and 2 explain WHO the “you” in all of the verses in the rest of the chapter refers to.

29 "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.

• Since we have already established in the first two verses that WE were not there … are you one of the “sons” of the people that were there that the revealed law belongs to “forever”? No. Neither am I. God did not make a covenant with my ancestors at Horeb or Moab, so the Law given to those people and their children can teach me about God, but it was not given to me and my ancestors.
• As I mentioned already, my ancestors were fishing in the Atlantic at the time. I am grafted into the vine by a New Covenant (that Hebrews says is better than the Old Covenant).

Wrong again, my friend.

The covenant at Horeb WAS the 10 Commandments in Stone meant for everybody per Deuteronomy 29:14-15.
Deuteronomy 5:2

The Moab covenant was the Mosaic Law, the book of Law, NOT the Stone Tablets.
Deuteronomy 28:58
Deuteronomy 29:1
Deuteronomy 31:26

 

[Phoneman777]

Haha. I'm not going to bother. You quote our enemies in order to discover who and what we are? All the while rejecting what we ourselves testify to here?
You are doing what the Jews did as Christ stood before Pilate. "Give us Barabus! We'll believe Christ's enemy, crucify Christ."

The Pharisaic children of Satan paid off their satanic brethren to give false testimony about Jesus in order to find ground for which to condemn Him...have the tactics of the children of Satan changed after 2,000 years? Today, the same false ground upon which to condemn Christ's followers is as vast as cyberspace itself.

Too cowardly and ill-equipped to match wits with "the people of the Book", they are forced to resort to the same kind of lying propaganda, "lest the glorious light of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

 

[GEN2REV]

[Mat 1:1 NASB95] 1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

• Jesus was an Israelite, so the Covenant belonged to him.

[Mar 1:9-11 NASB95] 9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

• Jesus was the Son of God, so he was part of the Covenant on His Father’s side as well.

[Luk 2:21-22 NASB95] 21 And when eight days had passed, before His circumcision, His name was [then] called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22 And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord

• Jesus was born into the covenant under the Law.
• (Were you circumcised at eight days old and presented to the Lord at the Temple with the appropriate sacrifice according to the Law?)

[Jhn 1:17 NASB95] 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

• This is why … Jesus obeyed ALL of the Law (not just the 10 commandments) in order that “grace and truth” might be realized (made real). As an Israelite, Jesus was entitled to the Covenant promises and restrictions, and as God incarnate, Jesus was capable of perfectly completing the Law.

All that nonsense when scripture is so simple and straightforward about it.

Jesus obeyed the 10 Commandments.
John 15:10
We are to live our lives as Jesus lived His - obeying the same Commandments that He did. 1 John 2:6

Open and shut.

 

[quietthinker]

So, at which point in the "forever and ever" existence of God's commandments do they cease to exist? If you're saying there will come a time when the Ten Commandments no longer exist, how can we explain Psalms 111:7-8 KJV which plainly says the commandments God made and wrote with His hands will exist for eternity?

For lack of a better explanation/description, I see the 10C's as a kind of subsection (for us outta control rascals) to the principle by which God runs his Universe. They are good and holy but hardly applicable to those whose reality and objective is service and selflessness. Coveting for instance; the whole created order will have seen the result of that baby so why would they even entertain it?

I supposes one could look at the expression 'forever and ever' meaning as long as it applies....a bit like the lake of fire burning forever and ever.....like, once it has done its job of consuming/destroying all that offends and the fuel runs out it will die a natural death and cease to be.

David no doubt had wonderful insights but he also had some shocking views, for example, consider this which he wrote re praying for his enemies :-

Psalm 58:6-10
Break the teeth in their mouths, O God;
Lord, tear out the fangs of those lions!
7 Let them vanish like water that flows away;
when they draw the bow, let their arrows fall short.
8 May they be like a slug that melts away as it moves along,
like a stillborn child that never sees the sun.
9 Before your pots can feel the heat of the thorns—
whether they be green or dry—the wicked will be swept away.
10 The righteous will be glad when they are avenged,
when they dip their feet in the blood of the wicked.

I can't imagine Jesus meaning this when he say bless those who curse you, do good to those who spitefully use you etc.

So what am I saying? I think we need to realise that most Old Testament folk had little idea about just how gracious God is ...all the while that graciousness extending even to those who were murdering Jesus. Was he not the same in OT times?

God's justice is one of long-suffering forgiveness with which he bears unbelievable misrepresentation....even in scripture....even by God's own people. No wonder the angel in Revelation 8:4 presents the prayers of the saints with much incense.....he does it to ease the stench of revenge and selfishness with which they pray and to which they are oblivious.

 

[Phoneman777]

So do you claim to be perfect and obey all commandments? Seems like a simple question.

There's only TEN, right? Is it really that hard to not have other gods before God? Or, to not worship idols? Or, to not blaspheme? Or, to not commit adultery? I worked 30 hours OT last week so believe me when I say today was a much needed Sabbath rest for me. It is really that hard to not click on porn, kill, steal, lie, etc., if you love Jesus? Not if you love Jesus. "...and His commandments ARE NOT grievous."

Now, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU: How can one say he loves Jesus if he is constantly driving fresh nails in His hands and feet by habitual practice of sin, with no one pointing a gun to his head forcing him to do it? The answer is he doesn't love Jesus at all, and will go straight to hell in the Judgment, not matter how much he waves his hands in church and shouts hallelujah.

So if we admit we are not perfect that means we declare ourselves a god?

Yes...instead of God sitting upon the throne of our heart, it is ourselves who are seated there, doing as we please, refusing to surrender our will to God's will.

The Christian branch is to "abide in the Vine" but false Christianity thinks they can detach from the Vine and go down the street and hook up to Satan's Hollywood tree from time to time. Jesus and Satan don't share joint custody of the kids - we're either with Him or not.

 

[Phoneman777]

For lack of a better explanation/description, I see the 10C's as a kind of subsection (for us outta control rascals) to the principle by which God runs his Universe. They are good and holy but hardly applicable to those whose reality and objective is service and selflessness. Coveting for instance; the whole created order will have seen the result of that baby so why would they even entertain it?

I supposes one could look at the expression 'forever and ever' meaning as long as it applies....a bit like the lake of fire burning forever and ever.....like, once it has done its job of consuming/destroying all that offends and the fuel runs out it will die a natural death and cease to be.

David no doubt had wonderful insights but he also had some shocking views, for example, consider this which he wrote re praying for his enemies :-

Psalm 58:6-10
Break the teeth in their mouths, O God;
Lord, tear out the fangs of those lions!
7 Let them vanish like water that flows away;
when they draw the bow, let their arrows fall short.
8 May they be like a slug that melts away as it moves along,
like a stillborn child that never sees the sun.
9 Before your pots can feel the heat of the thorns—
whether they be green or dry—the wicked will be swept away.
10 The righteous will be glad when they are avenged,
when they dip their feet in the blood of the wicked.

I can't imagine Jesus meaning this when he say bless those who curse you, do good to those who spitefully use you etc.

So what am I saying? I think we need to realise that most Old Testament folk had little idea about just how gracious God is ...all the while that graciousness extending even to those who were murdering Jesus. Was he not the same in OT times?

God's justice is one of long-suffering forgiveness with which he bears unbelievable misrepresentation....even in scripture....even by God's own people. No wonder the angel in Revelation 8:4 presents the prayers of the saints with much incense.....he does it to ease the stench of revenge and selfishness with which they pray and to which they are oblivious.

True, the Ten Commandments were "codified" for a people enslaved in Egypt and ignorant of truth...but the law already existed before then. I think "ad" and "olam" in the Psalms refers to "eternity" seeing that they are used in the context of the affairs of God, namely, His writing of the Ten Commandments. No one would argue there'll come a time when in the kingdom people will be breaking them.

It's important that the Christian read the Ten Commandments not as "thou shalt not..." but "what shall be". For instance, instead of reading with a stern tone, "Thou shalt not commit adultery", one must read them with a look of incredulity and astonishment, "Of course, thou shalt not commit adultery! What a ridiculous notion! We love Jesus and thus we'll never do that!"

But, to the "Christians" who think the Ten Commandments are grievous, that stern tone is the only way they can read them because their love of sin won't allow them to read them otherwise.

 

[quietthinker]

True, the Ten Commandments were "codified" for a people enslaved in Egypt and ignorant of truth...but the law already existed before then. I think "ad" and "olam" in the Psalms refers to "eternity" seeing that they are used in the context of the affairs of God, namely, His writing of the Ten Commandments. No one would argue there'll come a time when in the kingdom people will be breaking them.

It's important that the Christian read the Ten Commandments not as "thou shalt not..." but "what shall be". For instance, instead of reading with a stern tone, "Thou shalt not commit adultery", one must read them with a look of incredulity and astonishment, "Of course, thou shalt not commit adultery! What a ridiculous notion! We love Jesus and thus we'll never do that!"

But, to the "Christians" who think the Ten Commandments are grievous, that stern tone is the only way they can read them because their love of sin won't allow them to read them otherwise.

I hear you Pm

 

[Phoneman777]

I hear you Pm

That's how I read them. This morning, I logged onto my computer and a thought flashed in my brain to surf some porn...but I immediately thought, get behind me Satan, for it is written "Thou shalt not commit adultery" but my love for Jesus echoes the sentiment "of course, thou shalt not commit adultery!"

Amazing how the devil gets after us as soon as our feet hit the floor in the morning, right? I am not a slave to sin, I am a child of God. And, let me tell you, He is "a very present help in time of need" when Satan comes dangling his temptations. No excuse for sin when victory through Jesus is not only possible, but guaranteed. We sin because we WANT to, period.

 

[quietthinker]

That's how I read them. This morning, I logged onto my computer and a thought flashed in my brain to surf some porn...but I immediately thought, get behind me Satan, for it is written "Thou shalt not commit adultery" but my love for Jesus echoes the sentiment "of course, thou shalt not commit adultery!"

Amazing how the devil gets after us as soon as our feet hit the floor in the morning, right? I am not a slave to sin, I am a child of God. And, let me tell you, He is "a very present help in time of need" when Satan comes dangling his temptations. No excuse for sin when victory through Jesus is not only possible, but guaranteed. We sin because we WANT to, period.

I can identify.

 

[atpollard]

All that nonsense when scripture is so simple and straightforward about it.

Jesus obeyed the 10 Commandments.
John 15:10
We are to live our lives as Jesus lived His - obeying the same Commandments that He did. 1 John 2:6

Open and shut.

Jesus obeyed THE WHOLE LAW … do you really want to follow your logic to its conclusion?
Stop rounding the corners of your head, start offering the required tithe and sacrifices at the temple.
You are being selective in your obeying the Law.

“For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.” - James

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus obeyed THE WHOLE LAW … do you really want to follow your logic to its conclusion?
Stop rounding the corners of your head, start offering the required tithe and sacrifices at the temple.
You are being selective in your obeying the Law.

“For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.” - James

Do you think they all wondered why they never saw him bring a sin offering to the Temple?

 

[atpollard]

Wrong again, my friend.

The covenant at Horeb WAS the 10 Commandments in Stone meant for everybody per Deuteronomy 29:14-15.

Deuteronomy 29:1 These are the words of the covenant which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the sons of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant which He had made with them at Horeb.

I can understand why you would choose not to believe me, but I cannot understand why you choose not to believe God.

 

[atpollard]

Do you think they all wondered why they never saw him bring a sin offering to the Temple?

Jesus might have been like Job and offered sin offerings for his parents and “brothers” and later his disciples “just in case” (Job 1:5). ;)

I have a friend that likes to imagine Jesus growing up and all of the Jewish mothers … “That Jesus is such a nice boy, he should meet my single daughter.” (It was an age of arranged marriages.). That had to be interesting for Mary and Joseph.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The 10 Commandments are only for sinners, so is forever. However, born again Christians are not sinners and God's laws of love with all our heart are written on our hearts. And the Sabbath, the sign of the Covenant, is no longer by the letter, the only way it can be kept, but by the Spirit and substance in Jesus. It is not a day, but the Creator Himself inside us.



cc: @dad

 

[dad]

There's only TEN, right? Is it really that hard to not have other gods before God? Or, to not worship idols? Or, to not blaspheme? Or, to not commit adultery? I worked 30 hours OT last week so believe me when I say today was a much needed Sabbath rest for me. It is really that hard to not click on porn, kill, steal, lie, etc., if you love Jesus? Not if you love Jesus. "...and His commandments ARE NOT grievous."

So that is a yes then. You think you keep all the law.

Now, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU: How can one say he loves Jesus if he is constantly driving fresh nails in His hands and feet by habitual practice of sin, with no one pointing a gun to his head forcing him to do it? The answer is he doesn't love Jesus at all, and will go straight to hell in the Judgment, not matter how much he waves his hands in church and shouts hallelujah.
Yes...instead of God sitting upon the throne of our heart, it is ourselves who are seated there, doing as we please, refusing to surrender our will to God's will.

Jesus died for sinners, not the righteous. I don't think Peter was driving a fresh nail into Jesus when he sinned. I think God was working on him. Now those that think they are perfect, well what's to work on?

The Christian branch is to "abide in the Vine" but false Christianity thinks they can detach from the Vine and go down the street and hook up to Satan's Hollywood tree from time to time. Jesus and Satan don't share joint custody of the kids - we're either with Him or not.

Not sure what that is supposed to mean. Maybe you think watching a movie is bad?

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus might have been like Job and offered sin offerings for his parents and “brothers” and later his disciples “just in case” (Job 1:5). ;)

I have a friend that likes to imagine Jesus growing up and all of the Jewish mothers … “That Jesus is such a nice boy, he should meet my single daughter.” (It was an age of arranged marriages.). That had to be interesting for Mary and Joseph.

I'll ask him one day :)

 

[quietthinker]

The 10 Commandments are only for sinners, so is forever. However, born again Christians are not sinners and God's laws of love with all our heart are written on our hearts. And the Sabbath, the sign of the Covenant, is no longer by the letter, the only way it can be kept, but by the Spirit and substance in Jesus. It is not a day, but the Creator Himself inside us.



cc: @dad

if its on the heart CL, its still there, unless of course you can flick out the offending ones ....and I didn't see that option.