The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

[Phoneman777]

That sounds good.
As I stated....we must have faith first or works are useless.
After we have faith, God does expect us to obey Him...
and works become a sign of our belief in Him.
Works/good deeds is just anything we do...because we now do it for God.
Colossians 3:17

Do you agree that the lack of works proves a lack of faith? Bear in mind, 1 John 2:3-4 KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes the heart has to be right, the rest will follow. Part of our learning here on earth is making mistakes. People who are willing can ask and be saved. In some cases people have a lot of works and will be rewarded accordingly. In some cases, they did not do all that He commanded. Such as Peter. I don't think God commanded Peter to betray Him repeatedly. However, in the end, we see he did quite a lot. Same with Paul who ran a good race. The thing I am wary of are those who focus on works. If they see someone that looks to them like they may not have a lot of good works, they get self righteous. 'I thank thee God that I am not as those sinners'.

It's important to note that Jesus considered doing "all that your heavenly Father hath commanded" as unprofitable. How much less profitable is our imperfect obedience - our "less than all" that our heavenly Father commands?

By this, Jesus puts to rest the idea of earning salvation via works, because if a thing is "unprofitable" it by default earns nothing.

It's unfair for the hypergrace crowd to accuse others of "legalism" when we preach that the commandments are not optional, but mandatory, because they are simply "reasonable service" we render to Him. Therefore, the lack of "reasonable service" aka obedience to the Ten Commandments does not is not what disqualifies us for salvation, but is the evidence that we've chosen to make ourselves a god instead of serving God - choice is "thought", not "works".

 

[Phoneman777]

It’s all I need, but there is more.

Mark of the Beast
Quick Intro to SDA
Sabbatismos Ministries: Finding Our Rest in Christ - Adventism & the Gospel

No Dan, copy and paste is bulldookey. Let's hear your reasons why we SDAs preach a false Gospel, though it is YOU who can't figure out something so simple as which day the seventh day of the week is, OK?

 

[Phoneman777]

The OP of this thread is a nightmare to the OSAS/Hypergrace crowd. It exposes their License to Sin for what it is: a false gospel which says we may obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

 

[mailmandan]

No Dan, copy and paste is bulldookey. Let's hear your reasons why we SDAs preach a false Gospel, though it is YOU who can't figure out something so simple as which day the seventh day of the week is, OK?

I have already given my reasons numerous times why SDA’s preach a false gospel but it always falls on deaf ears and there is a reason for that.

 

[Phoneman777]

If having the mind of Christ is the MO in the age to come, I can't imagine coveting being a desirable option....and if it's not an option why have a law prohibiting it?

Doesn't Psalm 111:7-8 KJV say God's commandments "stand fast forever and ever" which includes the New Heaven and Earth?

Also, if there was a law in heaven which Satan broke BEFORE sin entered the universe (Ezekiel 28:16 KJV; 1 John 3:4 KJV), why should anyone be surprised that that same law continues to exist in the here and now?

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

You have ZERO biblical evidence that Christ rose around 3 pm on Saturday (the Sabbath, a day of rest, when God rested from His creative work and Christ rested from His redemptive work).

But since the Bible shows that Christ fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits (Lev 23:10,11) in His resurrection (1 Cor 15:20), and that feast was always on "the morrow after the Sabbath" we can be 100% certain that Christ arose on the first day of the week. Probably after midnight and before early dawn, since He is also called "the Morning Star" (Rev 22:16).

I'm going to prove to you that you have no idea what you're talking about, even though you confidently accuse me of having zero evidence.

1. Dan. 9:27 says the Messiah would die in the "middle of the week". Guess what? Wednesday is the middle day of the week.

2. Matt. 27:46,50 clearly places Jesus' death at around 3 p.m.:

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?' And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit."

3. Jesus emphatically stated to the Orthodox Jews that the only sign He would give them that He was the Messiah was that He would be dead for the same amount of time that Jonah was in the fish's belly:

“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Do the math. Jesus died on Wednesday at around 3 p.m.. And since Jesus Himself said He would dead for exactly 3 days, He was resurrected at the same time Saturday afternoon. You definitely don't know what you're talking about, because the events of Acts 2 happened on Pentecost, and that was a whole month after Jesus' resurrection(Acts 1:3-5).

A Pentecost resurrection would mean that the women visited Jesus' tomb 50 days after His resurrection, which clearly didn't happen because Jesus clearly said He would only be dead for 3 days. All you served to do was confirm your wholesale ignorance of scripture, particularly since Pentecost is supposed to be observed 50 days after the Unleavened Bread festival(Lev. 23:16). Jesus was only dead for about 2 days after the Unleavened Bread festival because the scriptures were clear about the fact that it was that Thursday.

And like i said before, nothing in the Bible shows Jesus Himself saying He is Lord of Sunday. Jesus authoritatively stated that He is Lord of the Sabbath, and no anti-Sabbatarian can honestly produce a passage where Jesus Himself says He put His stamp on Sunday, and they know they can't. That's why they have to go out of their way to twist scriptures like you certainly did to support their erroneous tradition of a Sunday resurrection. When that tradition collapses, the Sunday-keepers' justification for rejecting the Sabbath collapses with it.

 

[Phoneman777]

I have already given my reasons numerous times why SDA’s preach a false gospel but it always falls on deaf ears and there is a reason for that.

Your reasons are not facts...just opinions. We SDAs deal in facts...

...like the fact that the OSAS License to Sin is nothing more than a false gospel which says we may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

 

[Phoneman777]

My 2 cents is from. It is called freedom from sin. Romans 6:6-7. And it is TAKE AWAY not merely COVER.

And also the angel told Mary, "...and He shall save His people FROM their sins."

 

[atpollard]

Who are the 10 Commandments written to?
They are written to all God's Children.

Exodus 20:

1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. …​

They were NOT written to all God’s children, they were written to the people that God brought out of bondage in Egypt.

 

[mailmandan]

Your reasons are not facts...just opinions. We SDAs deal in facts...

...like the fact that the OSAS License to Sin is nothing more than a false gospel which says we may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

SDA’s deal in so-called facts the same way crafty lawyers deal in so-called facts.

 

[GEN2REV]

They were NOT written to all God’s children, they were written to the people that God brought out of bondage in Egypt.

Wrong.

"Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath (the 10 Commandments); but with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God (those outside of the immediate tribes of Israel), and also with him that is not here with us (all men ever to be born) this day:..."
Deuteronomy 29:14-15


"The secret things belong to the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed (the 10 Commandments) belong unto us (all those present at that time and all men ever to be born upon the earth) and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law."
Deuteronomy 29:29

Why would Jesus have obeyed the Commandments of His Father (the 10 Commandments) if they were only written to an isolated group thousands of years prior? John 15:10

Your opinion holds not a drop of water.

 

[Phoneman777]

SDA’s deal in so-called facts the same way crafty lawyers deal in so-called facts.

Crafty? Is "craft" how SDAs became the first organized denomination to preach Jesus is coming very soon while everyone else mocked and ridiculed and expelled Christians from every other denomination including yours for teaching the same, while they continued in that nonsense about how the church was "entering the Millennium of Peace, only after which Jesus would come"?...and it wasn't until decades later when Billy Graham began preaching it that you all jumped on the bandwagon?

Don't be mad at our sharp, two-edged SDA sword just because you're the dull, rusty knife in the back of the drawer that can't even divide asunder a wet paper bag.

 

[GEN2REV]

SDA’s deal in so-called facts the same way crafty lawyers deal in so-called facts.

Hey Dan,

Which one of these other doctrines do you NOT subscribe to?

Trinity
OSAS
Pre-Trib Rapture
Millennium Reign on the current earth
Sunday Sabbath - "Lord's Day" worship

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Exodus 20:

1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. …​

They were NOT written to all God’s children, they were written to the people that God brought out of bondage in Egypt.

- The NT Church is spiritual Israel(Gal. 6:16, Rom. 2:29, Rev. 2:9. 3:9)
- Egypt was symbolic of sin and this world
- The Pharaoh was a type of Satan who held Christians in bondage to sin prior to God rescuing them
- The Pharaoh and his armies' efforts to recapture the Israelites were symbolic of the efforts made by Satan and his demons to bring Christians back into a life of sin
- The Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea was symbolic of the baptism ceremony and conversion(1 Cor. 10:1-2)
- The Israelites' journey to the Promised Land was symbolic of the Christian's journey towards God's Kingdom
- Moses leading the Israelites as a lawgiver to the Promised Land was symbolic of Christ leading Christians as the Lawgiver to God's Kingdom(Eph. 5:23, Heb. 2:10)

Paul stated in 1 Cor. 10:11 that all of this history was recorded for Christians to learn from because it primarily applied to them, not the OT Israelites. The only logical conclusion to reach is that God's words in Exo. 20:1 primarily applied to Christians, especially because God's commandments are spiritual(Rom. 7:14) and God already knew that most of the OT Israelites didn't have the capacity to even live by the letter of those commandments(Deut. 5:29).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And also the angel told Mary, "...and He shall save His people FROM their sins."

Of course. Scripture is full of why Jesus came - to free us from sin - what separated us from God in the first place. What most denominations do not get is that starting with the first separation from 1st century teaching, the RCC, and continuing through the Reformation, we have either the divine nature of God and a human nature that chooses righteousness from our own will out of obedience to God, or the carnal sinful nature and human nature, but it struggles between what is the law of God and our carnal desires, which the first is free from. We do NOT HAVE BOTH.

 

[quietthinker]

Doesn't Psalm 111:7-8 KJV say God's commandments "stand fast forever and ever" which includes the New Heaven and Earth?

Also, if there was a law in heaven which Satan broke BEFORE sin entered the universe (Ezekiel 28:16 KJV; 1 John 3:4 KJV), why should anyone be surprised that that same law continues to exist in the here and now?

Heaven's atmosphere is one of service and selflessness of which the 10 Commandments are a reflection. It is this that Lucifer violated and persuaded the first pair to follow suit.

Let's say we take the Commandment against adultery.....One can be married and never commit adultery yet have a totally miserable marriage because self is enthroned. The 10 were given to a traumatised people whose moral boundaries were perforated; whose understanding of normality was shaped by their 400 yrs in Egypt as slaves....they needed reminder and restraint. Law is better than anarchy however, Grace is greater/better than Law. The atmosphere of heaven breathes grace or graciousness. It is Heaven's MO...it was/is not Israel's or humanity's MO....however, in the New Earth it will be.

 

[dad]

It's important to note that Jesus considered doing "all that your heavenly Father hath commanded" as unprofitable. How much less profitable is our imperfect obedience - our "less than all" that our heavenly Father commands?

By this, Jesus puts to rest the idea of earning salvation via works, because if a thing is "unprofitable" it by default earns nothing.

It's unfair for the hypergrace crowd to accuse others of "legalism" when we preach that the commandments are not optional, but mandatory,

So do you claim to be perfect and obey all commandments? Seems like a simple question.

because they are simply "reasonable service" we render to Him. Therefore, the lack of "reasonable service" aka obedience to the Ten Commandments does not is not what disqualifies us for salvation, but is the evidence that we've chosen to make ourselves a god instead of serving God - choice is "thought", not "works".

So if we admit we are not perfect that means we declare ourselves a god?

 

[atpollard]

Wrong

Not wrong.

[Deu 29:1-2, 29 NASB95]
1 These are the words of the covenant which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the sons of Israel in the land of Moab, besides the covenant which He had made with them at Horeb.

• Are you a “son of Israel who has EVER been in the land of Moab? No. Me neither. The covenant presented in this chapter was not presented to us. It would be like claiming that the US is part of Asia just because we WANT to be part of Asia.

2 And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, "You have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh and all his servants and all his land; ...

• Were your ancestors summoned by Moses to hear those words? No. Neither were mine. God was not speaking to us the promises in this chapter.
• Verses 1 and 2 explain WHO the “you” in all of the verses in the rest of the chapter refers to.

29 "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.

• Since we have already established in the first two verses that WE were not there … are you one of the “sons” of the people that were there that the revealed law belongs to “forever”? No. Neither am I. God did not make a covenant with my ancestors at Horeb or Moab, so the Law given to those people and their children can teach me about God, but it was not given to me and my ancestors.
• As I mentioned already, my ancestors were fishing in the Atlantic at the time. I am grafted into the vine by a New Covenant (that Hebrews says is better than the Old Covenant).

 

[atpollard]

Why would Jesus have obeyed the Commandments of His Father (the 10 Commandments) if they were only written to an isolated group thousands of years prior? John 15:10

[Mat 1:1 NASB95] 1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

• Jesus was an Israelite, so the Covenant belonged to him.

[Mar 1:9-11 NASB95] 9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him; 11 and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

• Jesus was the Son of God, so he was part of the Covenant on His Father’s side as well.

[Luk 2:21-22 NASB95] 21 And when eight days had passed, before His circumcision, His name was [then] called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. 22 And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord

• Jesus was born into the covenant under the Law.
• (Were you circumcised at eight days old and presented to the Lord at the Temple with the appropriate sacrifice according to the Law?)

[Jhn 1:17 NASB95] 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

• This is why … Jesus obeyed ALL of the Law (not just the 10 commandments) in order that “grace and truth” might be realized (made real). As an Israelite, Jesus was entitled to the Covenant promises and restrictions, and as God incarnate, Jesus was capable of perfectly completing the Law.