Secure Eternal Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

I have been baptized and I told you I was baptized.....but your memory is short and your back peddling about listening to other men OR not listening to other men....whatever your new story is...has become amusing!!

Nope

You were sprinkled (rhantizo) you where not immersed (baptizo)

Unless you are different than any catholic I have ever met.

You can deny it all you want. I already explained what the greek word means. What you got does not line up with the greek word. You got what a church perverted the english transliteration to mean.

 

[Marymog]

Nope

You were sprinkled (rhantizo) you where not immersed (baptizo)

Unless you are different than any catholic I have ever met.

You can deny it all you want. I already explained what the greek word means. What you got does not line up with the greek word. You got what a church perverted the english transliteration to mean.

I did not say I was sprinkled. I said I was baptized.

Baptizo does NOT mean immersion and Scripture does not once EVER say HOW one is to be baptized. If it is in the NT please show it to me and I will join you in your immersion only theory. What we do KNOW is that the NT Christians practiced pouring on the head 3 times as a valid form of baptism but immersion was preferred.

 

[Illuminator]

Ezek. 36:25 – Ezekiel prophesies that God “will ‘sprinkle’ clean water on you and you shall be clean.” The word for “sprinkle” is “rhaino” which means what it says, sprinkle (not immersion). (“Kai rhaino eph hymas hydor katharon.”)

2 Kings 5:14 – Namaan went down and dipped himself in the Jordan. The Greek word for “dipped” is “baptizo.” Here, baptizo means immersion. But many Protestant churches argue that “baptizo” and related tenses of the Greek word always mean immersion, and therefore the Catholic baptisms of pouring or sprinkling water over the head are invalid. The Scriptures disprove their claim.

Num. 19:18 – here, the verbs for dipping (“baptisantes”) and sprinkled (“bapsei”) refers to affusion (pouring) and sprinkling (aspersion), not immersion.

Matt. 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16 -John the Baptist prophesied that Jesus will baptize (“baptisei”) with the Holy Spirit and fire. In this case, “baptisei” refers to a “pouring” out over the head. This is confirmed by Matt. 3:16 where the Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus’ head like a dove and Acts 2:3-4 where the Holy Spirit descended upon Mary and the apostles’ heads in the form of tongues of fire. In each case, in fulfilling John the Baptist’s prophecy, the Lord baptized (“baptizo”) in the form of pouring out His Spirit upon the head, not immersing the person.

Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 – Jesus also talks about His baptism (from “baptizo”) of blood, which was shed and sprinkled in His passion. But this baptism does not (and cannot) mean immersion.

Mark 7:3 – the Pharisees do not eat unless they wash (“baptizo” ) their hands. This demonstrates that “baptizo” does not always mean immersion. It can mean pouring water over something (in this case, over their hands).

Mark 7:4 – we see that the Jews washed (“bapto” from baptizo) cups, pitchers and vessels, but this does not mean that they actually immersed these items. Also, some manuscripts say the Jews also washed (bapto) couches, yet they did not immerse the couches, they only sprinkled them.

Luke 11:38 – Jesus had not washed (“ebaptisthe”) His hands before dinner. Here, the derivative of “baptizo” just means washing up, not immersing.

Acts 2:41 – at Peter’s first sermon, 3,000 were baptized. There is archeological proof that immersion would have been impossible in this area. Instead, these 3,000 people had to be sprinkled in water baptism.

Acts 8:38 – because the verse says they “went down into the water,” many Protestants say this is proof that baptism must be done by immersion. But the verb to describe Phillip and the eunuch going down into the water is the same verb (“katabaino”) used in Acts 8:26 to describe the angel’s instruction to Phillip to stop his chariot and go down to Gaza. The word has nothing to do with immersing oneself in water.

Acts 8:39 – because the verse says “they came up out of the water,” many Protestants also use this verse to prove that baptism must be done by immersion. However, the Greek word for “coming up out of the water” is “anebesan” which is plural. The verse is describing that both Phillip and the eunuch ascended out of the water, but does not prove that they were both immersed in the water. In fact, Phillip could not have baptized the eunuch if Phillip was also immersed. Finally, even if this was a baptism by immersion, the verse does not say that baptism by immersion is the only way to baptize.

Acts 9:18; 22:16 – Paul is baptized while standing up in the house of Judas. There is no hot tub or swimming pool for immersion. This demonstrates that Paul was sprinkled.

Acts 10:47-48 – Peter baptized in the house of Cornelius, even though hot tubs and swimming pools were not part of homes. Those in the house had to be sprinkled.

Acts 16:33 – the baptism of the jailer and his household appears to be in the house, so immersion is not possible.

Acts 2:17,18,33 – the pouring of water is like the “pouring” out of the Holy Spirit. Pouring is also called “infusion” (of grace).

1 Cor. 10:2 – Paul says that the Israelites were baptized (“baptizo”) in the cloud and in the sea. But they could not have been immersed because Exodus 14:22 and 15:9 say that they went dry shod. Thus, “baptizo” does not mean immersed in these verses.

Eph. 4:5 – there is only one baptism, just as there is only one Lord and one faith. Once a person is validly baptized by water and the Spirit in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with the intention of the Church (whether by pouring or immersion), there is no longer a need to rebaptize the person.

Titus 3:6 – the “washing of regeneration” (baptism) is “poured out” upon us. This “pouring out” generally refers to the pouring of baptismal waters over the head of the newly baptized.

Heb. 6:2 – on the doctrine of baptisms (the word used is “baptismos”) which generally referred to pouring and not immersion.

Heb. 10:22 – the author writes, “with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience.” This “sprinkling” of baptism refers to aspersion, not immersion. The text also parallels 1 Peter 3:21, which expressly mentions baptism and its ability to, like Heb. 10:22, purify the conscience (the interior disposition of a person).

Isaiah 44:3 – the Lord “pours” water on the thirsty land and “pours” His Spirit upon our descendants. The Lord is “pouring,” not “immersing.”

2 Thess. 2:15 – hold fast to the tradition of the Church, whether oral or written. Since the time of Christ, baptisms have been done by pouring or sprinkling.

SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM - Scripture Catholic

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did not say I was sprinkled. I said I was baptized.

Baptizo does NOT mean immersion

BULL!!!

Thats what you get for listening to men, and not studying for yourself

Bapto means to dip, to be dipped.

Baptizo means to be fully immersed as apposed to being dipped.

Thats why Baptizo is the perfect word for what happens to a child of God. They are fully immersed into the death. The burial and the body of Christ (rom 6, 1 cor 12 and gal 5) by God himself. Not partially submerged or sprinkled on.

Thats why your church does not like it when people claim what it truly is

You also claimed you had it done as a child. Well how can you believe as a baby?

So you did not even fulfill your interpretation of mark 16, Believe, and then be baptised.

I apologize. I missed that question. I don't know since I was a infant when I was baptized.

 

[Marymog]

BULL!!!

Thats what you get for listening to men, and not studying for yourself

Bapto means to dip, to be dipped.

Baptizo means to be fully immersed as apposed to being dipped.

Thats why Baptizo is the perfect word for what happens to a child of God. They are fully immersed into the death. The burial and the body of Christ (rom 6, 1 cor 12 and gal 5) by God himself. Not partially submerged or sprinkled on.

Thats why your church does not like it when people claim what it truly is

You also claimed you had it done as a child. Well how can you believe as a baby?

So you did not even fulfill your interpretation of mark 16, Believe, and then be baptised.

BAPTIZO does not mean immersion ONLY and it can mean "being dipped". Why do you ignore these facts? You would rather believe what your men tell you than do your own research.

Baptizo Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version (biblestudytools.com)
Definition

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3. to overwhelm

G907 - baptizō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
   
   
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
   

Strong's Greek: 907. βαπτίζω (baptizó) -- to dip, sink (biblehub.com)

907 baptízō – properly, "submerge" (Souter); hence, baptize, to immerse (literally, "dip under"). 907 (baptízō) implies submersion ("immersion"), in contrast to 472 /antéxomai ("sprinkle").

In regard to baptism: For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him

Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ” and “the circumcision made without hands.”

not even once in the NT do we find an example of a child raised in a Christian home who is baptized only upon making a “decision for Christ.” Rather, it is always assumed that the children of Christian homes are already Christians, that they have already been “baptized into Christ” (Rom. 6:3).

In the New Testament we read that Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that “the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family” (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 1:16).

Keeping it real with Scripture instead of opinions of men....Mary

 

[Marymog]

* Where in all of Scripture does it tell you to ASK men to interpret scriptures FOR YOU?

You always crack me up taken.....It doesn't say that I need to ask other men to interpret Scripture for me. The PROPER interpretation of Scripture, when it comes to a false teaching or a true teaching, is left up to the elders of The Church.....Just like Scripture says.

According to what your men have taught you if I interpret Scripture for myself, it's ok to do that. But if another man interprets it for me, it's not ok!

I presume your men have found a verse in Scripture that supports that teaching and they interpreted that vs to mean 'any man can read scripture on their own and properly interpret it' otherwise you wouldn't be preaching it to me. So why do you accept that interpretation from your men?

Curious Mary

 

[Behold]

The PROPER interpretation of Scripture, when it comes to a false teaching or a true teaching, is left up to the elders of The Church.....Just like Scripture says.

Actually that is not true.
As the interpretation of the Scriptures is given by the Holy Spirit.

So, if you leave the "elders" to do your thinking for you, for the rest of your life, as you have done so far, then you'll continue to stay in the dark, MMOG

 

[Taken]

You always crack me up taken.....It doesn't say that I need to ask other men to interpret Scripture for me. The PROPER interpretation of Scripture, when it comes to a false teaching or a true teaching, is left up to the elders of The Church.....Just like Scripture says.

LOL...what are the elders if not other men?

So why do you accept that interpretation from your men?

Why do you make a statement FOR me and pretend it is a Question?
I have said no such thing.

 

[Illuminator]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

BAPTIZO does not mean immersion ONLY and it can mean "being dipped". Why do you ignore these facts? You would rather believe what your men tell you than do your own research.

This just shows your lack of knowledge of the greek language.

BAPTO means to dip

BAPTIZO (add the IZO) Means to immerse

Revelations has jesus comming with his robes dipped (Bapto) in blood)

Baptizo Meaning in Bible - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version (biblestudytools.com)
Definition

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3. to overwhelm

G907 - baptizō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv) (blueletterbible.org)

1. to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
   
   
2. to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe

Strong's Greek: 907. βαπτίζω (baptizó) -- to dip, sink (biblehub.com)

907 baptízō – properly, "submerge" (Souter); hence, baptize, to immerse (literally, "dip under"). 907 (baptízō) implies submersion ("immersion"), in contrast to 472 /antéxomai ("sprinkle").

In regard to baptism: For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him

Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as “the circumcision of Christ” and “the circumcision made without hands.”

not even once in the NT do we find an example of a child raised in a Christian home who is baptized only upon making a “decision for Christ.” Rather, it is always assumed that the children of Christian homes are already Christians, that they have already been “baptized into Christ” (Rom. 6:3).

In the New Testament we read that Lydia was converted by Paul’s preaching and that “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15). The Philippian jailer whom Paul and Silas had converted to the faith was baptized that night along with his household. We are told that “the same hour of the night . . . he was baptized, with all his family” (Acts 16:33). And in his greetings to the Corinthians, Paul recalled that, “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas” (1 Cor. 1:16).

Keeping it real with Scripture instead of opinions of men....Mary

Keeping it real?

You were sprinkled, Not baptized (you were not even dipped - Bapto)

Moses washed Arran and his sons in the river Jordan. He then ANNOINTED them with oil, by POURING the oil on them.

So in niether case were you BAPTIZED in anything

Once again, Please do not try to teach people about baptism when you have not even been baptised yourself

 

[amigo de christo]

Beware the deceptions of men . Let us learn our bible and cling to that JESUS .

 

[Illuminator]

This just shows your lack of knowledge of the greek language.

BAPTO means to dip

BAPTIZO (add the IZO) Means to immerse

Revelations has jesus comming with his robes dipped (Bapto) in blood)



Keeping it real?

You were sprinkled, Not baptized (you were not even dipped - Bapto)

Moses washed Arran and his sons in the river Jordan. He then ANNOINTED them with oil, by POURING the oil on them.

So in niether case were you BAPTIZED in anything

Once again, Please do not try to teach people about baptism when you have not even been baptised yourself

Scroll up to post #2203. Ignoring it as you have done makes you look silly.

 

[Illuminator]

Actually that is not true.
As the interpretation of the Scriptures is given by the Holy Spirit.

Anybody can interpret Scripture, but the final decision is up to the Church. It's individualism that has fractured Protestantism.

29. The Protestant principle of private judgment has created a milieu (esp. in Protestant America) in which (invariably) man-centered "cults" such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, and Christian Science arise. The very notion that one can "start" a new, or "the true" Church is Protestant to the core.

30. The lack of a definitive teaching authority in Protestant (as with the Catholic magisterium) makes many individual Protestants think that they have a direct line to God, notwithstanding all of Christian Tradition and the history of biblical exegesis (a "Bible, Holy Spirit and me" mentality). Such people are generally under-educated theologically, unteachable, lack humility, and have no business making presumed "infallible" statements about the nature of Christianity.

150 Reasons why I am Catholic by Dave Armstrong ::

So, if you leave the "elders" to do your thinking for you, for the rest of your life, as you have done so far, then you'll continue to stay in the dark, MMOG

Our "elders" have a pedigree going back to the Apostles; the pedigree of your elders, if you have any at all, stops in the middle ages. Do you even have bishops in the first place???
Hebrews 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."
Behold, does this verse have an expiration date??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Scroll up to post #2203. Ignoring it as you have done makes you look silly.

Excuse me sir

But that post does not refute the fact that

1. Nicodemus spoke of water as it concerns to birth (mothers womb)
2. Jesus spoke of physical birth and water when he mentions being born in the flesh
3. Jesus did not mention baptism in vs 14 and 15, when he first explains HOW one is born again
4. He again n vs 16 and 17 does not mention baptism, when he explains what Jesus came to do. And what one must do if they are to receive eternal life in the new birth
5. Finally, in vs 18, as he concludes his conversation of being born again. He settles the issue once and for all. The believer vs the unbeliever. The believer has life and is not condemned. The unbeliever has never had life ( is still dead) and is condemned. Because they were not born again.

5.. count them. 5 reasons to totally reject baptism in John 3. And you claim I am the one ignoring something?

My friend. Learn how to understand a conversation and the flow and means of what is being said. Ignore what you have been taught about what is being said because you have been led astray. Don;t mock us who actually read the passage and words of jesus as ignoring anything

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Anybody can interpret Scripture, but the final decision is up to the Church. It's individualism that has fractured Protestantism.

Yep. Let’s listen to men, and not to the word.

29. The Protestant principle of private judgment has created a milieu (esp. in Protestant America) in which (invariably) man-centered "cults" such as Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, and Christian Science arise. The very notion that one can "start" a new, or "the true" Church is Protestant to the core.

30. The lack of a definitive teaching authority in Protestant (as with the Catholic magisterium) makes many individual Protestants think that they have a direct line to God, notwithstanding all of Christian Tradition and the history of biblical exegesis (a "Bible, Holy Spirit and me" mentality). Such people are generally under-educated theologically, unteachable, lack humility, and have no business making presumed "infallible" statements about the nature of Christianity.

150 Reasons why I am Catholic by Dave Armstrong ::

Our "elders" have a pedigree going back to the Apostles; the pedigree of your elders, if you have any at all, stops in the middle ages. Do you even have bishops in the first place???
Hebrews 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."
Behold, does this verse have an expiration date??

Actually, the catholic principal of do not think for yourself but listen blindly to us is really no different than the jewish way of doing things. We see the fear of even Mary and her children trying to protect Jesus because he protested the jewish religious elite. Saying he was sick.

Find leaders who will tall you to be like the bereans, and not blindly follow them. And maybe you may find the true church.

 

[GodsGrace]

BULL!!!

Thats what you get for listening to men, and not studying for yourself

Bapto means to dip, to be dipped.

Baptizo means to be fully immersed as apposed to being dipped.

Thats why Baptizo is the perfect word for what happens to a child of God. They are fully immersed into the death. The burial and the body of Christ (rom 6, 1 cor 12 and gal 5) by God himself. Not partially submerged or sprinkled on.

Thats why your church does not like it when people claim what it truly is

You also claimed you had it done as a child. Well how can you believe as a baby?

So you did not even fulfill your interpretation of mark 16, Believe, and then be baptised.

Hi EG,
The problem here is that you have no knowledge of early Christian history.
Persons could be immersed...it was preferable to show the death and rebirth of the person.
However, water was scarce in many places and immersion was difficult for adults...
So using water "sprinkled" on the head was sufficient. And it's not really sprinkled but poured onto the forehead.

Baptism is baptism. The Holy Spirit enters the person, no matter HOW it's done.
It's a form.
Someone could be dying and still be saved even if they are not baptized, if they sought God with all their heart.

As to babies being baptized...again there is a lot of history here that you should know.

Why not learn some and then argue about what is written in the N.T.?
Do you know why babies were baptized?
Did you know that only adults were baptized for salvation at the beginning of the church?

So much to know...

 

[GodsGrace]

OSAS is biblical!

Colossians 3:3-4
King James Version

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 10:9-13
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Ephesians 2:5-7
King James Version

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:28-39
King James Version

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:28-29
King James Version

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 3:36
King James Version

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Philippians 1:6
King James Version

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 10:14
King James Version

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 13:5
King James Version

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


There are many others as well.

Your verses you cite are all about our experience and receiving the consequences of sin in this life. what you and so many others who falsely believe one can lose their salvation fail in is that you reject the fact the sin does not sned a person to hell! Jesus died for all the sins of the world! So bad deeds do not send one ot hell.

Also you have to conclude that Jesus did not die for all your sins if you can lose your salvation, which is sheer foolishness!

also you forget that when one receives Christ by faith- the old man is killed and the new man is born which is being fashioned into the image of Jesus!

We live in two truths. Positional truth and expriential truth. Positionally we are already seen as perfect, and experientially god is cutting the old habits away and replacing them with new Godly ones and Jesus will complete that good work.

YOu call OSAS a man made theory, well believing one can lose their salvation comes direct from the pit of hell.

I haven't been following along. Sorry.
However, we do not "lose" our salvation because of sin. Everybody sins even after they're saved.
OSAS was NEVER a teaching in the early church.
It IS a man-made doctrine that came about in the 1800's if I remember correctly.
In any case, very recently. It did not exist before.
It is truly a man-made doctrine.

Also, we don't lose our salvation...
we abandon God, and thus are no longer a child of His.

Faith = Salvation
No Faith = No Salvation (whenever that happens).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I haven't been following along. Sorry.
However, we do not "lose" our salvation because of sin. Everybody sins even after they're saved.
OSAS was NEVER a teaching in the early church.
It IS a man-made doctrine that came about in the 1800's if I remember correctly.
In any case, very recently. It did not exist before.
It is truly a man-made doctrine.

Also, we don't lose our salvation...
we abandon God, and thus are no longer a child of His.

Faith = Salvation
No Faith = No Salvation (whenever that happens).

No the loss of salvation false doctrine was born in the 4-5th century before the RCC took hold. It has been a doctrine of the Catholic church for over a millenia. also, many protestant churches never rid themselves of this bad teaching after the reformation. I remain convinced it is rooted in human pride. People want some control and say in their salvation th esame way Cain wanted to offer God what He did instead of giving God what God did.

 

[GodsGrace]

No the loss of salvation false doctrine was born in the 4-5th century before the RCC took hold. It has been a doctrine of the Catholic church for over a millenia. also, many protestant churches never rid themselves of this bad teaching after the reformation. I remain convinced it is rooted in human pride. People want some control and say in their salvation th esame way Cain wanted to offer God what He did instead of giving God what God did.

Ronald...
I have to disagree with you.
The CC was from the beginning - it's roots can be traced back to the Apostles. (I'm not Catholic - this is plain history).
But I know what you mean about the Catholic Chruch taking hold. I'd say it started when Constantine became involved in church matters in the early 300's.

The early church, which would include the Apostolic Fathers did NOT believe in OSAS. They taught that we are to follow the Commandments and that one can leave the faith and thus become lost again.

The CC, in fact, has maintained this teaching throughout the ages and has never changed its view.
However, I like to go by what the N.T. states and not any denomination, even the Protestant ones.

As to persons wanting control over their salvation...
Do you believe we have no control to keep the faith?
Paul clearly teaches that the faith can be abandoned.

Hebrews 12:1-2
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us. We do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus.

Paul sees our faith as a race that must be won.

Hebrews 3:14
For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Mark 10:52
And Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your faith has made you well.”

There are so many verses, it's really difficult to post them all.
Christians were exhorted to not fall from the faith...to run the race till the end...to hold fast to the word unless we believe in vain,
and it is our faith that saves us. If we abandon our faith, we abandon God and how can we then still be saved if we are in the same condition as before we were saved?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Precious friend's input:

The CC was from the beginning - it's roots can be traced back to the Apostles. (I'm not Catholic - this is plain history).

Since "plain history" is Neither inspired Nor authoritative, I would trust only
God's Inspired and Authoritative Word Of Truth. Amen?

The early church, which would include the Apostolic Fathers did NOT believe in OSAS. They taught that we are to follow the Commandments and that one can leave the faith and thus become lost again.

IF "early church" refers to the political kingdom church [assembly] that Christ
spoke of in Matthew 16:18, which continued at Pentecost, and found as late as
Acts 21:20, with "thousands of Jewish believers ALL zealous of the [Moses']
law," then:

Yes, Correct: "NO osas" is in view, as this is "faith without works is DEAD,"
and, "believe AND be [water] baptized" and "endure to the end" to be saved,
IS Exactly What "Christ, on the earth, TAUGHT" the Twelve, and they taught
Israel's TWELVE tribes = see James 1:1! However, all this "prophecy/law"
MUST BE:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

As to persons wanting control over their salvation...
Do you believe we have no control to keep the faith?
Paul clearly teaches that the faith can be abandoned.

Under God's Gospel Of GRACE, today, In God's "Revelation Of The
MYSTERY, The LORD JESUS CHRIST, From Heaven, Taught Paul,
HIS Chosen apostle to the Gentiles, New and Different information.

This is to The Body Of CHRIST, The Church That HE Established In
Acts Chapter 9, "The ONE New man" {NOT bride/woman} Ephesians 2:15.

This is Plain and Clear that God's ETERNAL Salvation Is Now "By:
GRACE Through faith, APART from ALL works!" Ramifications are:

God Establishes An ETERNAL Relationship With ALL GRACE believers!
Our ONLY participation in this is to humbly believe, 100% trust, place Total faith,
In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS Death [Precious BLOOD], Burial, And HIS
Resurrection, According To The Scriptures!
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

This is NOT a man's temporary salvation to "be kept by keeping faith," since
God Teaches That "HE Is The New OWNER" Of ALL GRACE believers!
(1 Corinthians 6:19; Romans 14:8), and, Since HIS BLOOD Is ALL Sufficient!:
+
Eph_1:14 [The Holy Spirit] Which is the Earnest of our inheritance Until THE
Redemption of The Purchased Possession, Unto The Praise Of HIS Glory.

Much MORE Corroborating Scriptural Evidence!:

God's OPERATION On ALL New-born babes IN CHRIST!
God's ETERNAL Assurance!!

Conclusion: IF one thinks he/she "can Really LOSE" God's ETERNAL Salvation,
we Sincerely Beseech them to "RE-examine themSELVES" With God, The OWNER,
In The Light Of HIS Exhortation TO them!:

2Co 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
Know ye not your own selves, how That JESUS CHRIST Is In you, except
ye be reprobates?"

HE Simply CANNOT "Be The New OWNER" IF HE is NOT in them!
Make sense?

On the other side, we could continue with "fellowship With HIM,"
where, In Biblical Fact, "one Could lose," IF you wish, Precious friend...

GRACE And Peace...