The 10 Commandments are FOREVER
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mailmandan
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
You continue to misinterpret scripture and re-define what it means to “believe in Jesus” unto salvation. Also, Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)
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Jim B
Well-Known Member
There is nothing that says that Paul kept the 10 Commandments. He purified himself to satisfy his opponents -- a smart political move. If you read his writings he clearly opposes the OT law as a means of salvation. His entire ministry he preached that salvation is in Christ alone, not in written words.
Here is some Scripture to help you understand...
"To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) to gain those under the law." 1 Corinthians 9:20
Also...
"But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18
But then who among us who still sins at all is fully and completely born of God or born from above, or born again?
The following explanation not written by someone else is close to where I am with regard to being "Born again or born of God":
"Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, First John 3:9, because he cannot sin. CANNOT SIN? What is meant by cannot?
He that is born of God sinneth not! He that is begotten of God keeps himself! First John 5:18. BEGOTTEN? WHAT DOES BEGOTTEN MEAN ?
Even as natural birth is a process from live conception to live birth, so is being born of the Spirit. The invisible things of God are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even unto the eternal Godhead so that we are without excuse, Romans 1:20. Simply stated the things that are spiritual can be seen and understood by the things that are natural, that is if you know how to see them. God made everything that was made and without him was not anything made that was made. This includes the things seen and the things unseen, both spiritual and natural. For someone to understand the spiritual they must first understand the natural. The same unchanging God that created the natural also created the spiritual. I explain all this as a prelude to the subject that I am about to present.
Jesus told Nicodemus that for someone to see the kingdom of God he must first be born again. He then went further to say that for a man to enter into the kingdom of God he must be born again. Nicodemus, being befuddled at the words of the Lord answered,"How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mothers womb and be born?" I heard different secular and even some religious theorist make light of the concept of being born again. They, like Nicodemus of old, find the concept of rebirth incredulous. All they have to comprehend the thought with is their natural mind which Paul explained as being, First Corinthians 2:13-16
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. Now with this in mind I want to present the understanding of a second birth, being born again.
In Galatians 4:19, Paul makes a statement that few people have considered to be pertinent to the teaching of being born again. I find it not only pertinent but intrinsic to the subject. The very verbiage should alert any serious student that this scripture must be considered when approaching this subject. Let's read the scripture, "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you". What? Travail in birth again? Paul a minister travailing in birth again for those to whom he is writing, what can this mean? Now let me tie in another thought by another writer, John. In First John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God". Whosoever is born of God cannot sin? To say that someone cannot sin is to say they are no longer capable of sin. To say that someone cannot sin is to say that they have taken on the divine nature of God. To say that someone cannot sin is to say that they are an overcomer and have made themselves ready to be a part of the Bride of Christ. They have achieved the place of being perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect Matthew 5:48.
Natural birth is a process and so is spiritual birth a process. To be born requires a father and a mother, it requires conception and a time of gestation. The word born in all the above scriptures is translated from the Greek word, gennao which is referenced as 1080 in Strong's. It is one of those words that must be contextually understood because it has differing understandings by use of context. The word can be used to mean conceived, bear, brought forth, or any stage of the process of being born.
To be born is a process, both spiritually and naturally. To further facilitate an understanding look now at what John says in the fifth chapter the eighteenth verse, We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself and that wicked one toucheth him not. The same word translated born in chapter three verse nine is here translated both born and begotten. to be begotten is to be in the process of being born. To be born is to have finished the process and have been brought forth alive. To be born is to be brought forth alive in His image and in His likeness.
Jesus was the first born of many brethern, Romans 8:29. The whole world groaneth awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God. We who are conceived of The Holy Ghost, which is the earnest of our inheritance, Ephesians 1:13-14, are the begotten of God who are in the process of being born. Until such a time as we are brought forth alive we must keep ourselves from doing the sin that we are tempted to do. When we are born as the manifested sons of God we will be like Him, First John 3:1-3, then we shall see Him as He is. We, like Him will not be able to be tempted with evil, James 1:13. We will have achieved unto the measure, of the stature, of the fullness of Christ.
WE ARE TRAVAILING IN BIRTH TO BE BORN AGAIN, UNTIL CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU. Galatians 4:19.
We are begotten of God when we receive His Spirit. We are born of God when we are brought forth in His image and His likeness. "
If we are still coming short on being in his image and likeness... and we are still sinning at all, would not the birth process be incomplete? The baby may then still be in the womb under development or even in the birth canal but still not out in the fullness of the Light!
Of course, many folks who believe they have already been born again may have a problem with this...but, I am not their judge either.
Behold
Well-Known Member
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
How do you interpret 1 John 3:9? Some interpret it to mean that the part of us that is born of God cannot sin, while others say it means those who are born of God do not practice (NASB) sin and still others believe that it means sinless perfection of the flesh.
Right. Jesus is Lord & dwells in us to make us able to stand by His righteousness apart from the law, and not the sabbath day as lord over us.
You know what they say about pointing fingers.Talk about pride and arrogance.
You've got 3 pointed back AT YOURSELF.
I won't stand before God expecting to receive anything based on merits of obeying the 10 Commandments.
No pride and arrogance there.
False.
"... thou thyself also walkest orderly and keepest the Law."
Acts 21:24
Paul also was a regular keeper of the Sabbath, just exactly as Jesus was His entire life.
Embrace exactly what scripture teaches or admit guilt in embracing another Gospel.
2 Corinthians 11:4
Galatians 1:8
God cannot sin... so God in us cannot sin.
I read the scripture as saying we need to kill the "old man" of us by the "new man". When the Holy Spirit in us [God in us] is leading we cannot sin. Our problem is our free will. God gave Adam and Eve a choice, to obey Him or not. The "not" is the free will part that gets men into trouble.
This concerns the old man and the new man about which Paul wrote. Most believers have the double-mindedness about which James cautioned... the old man versus the new man.
The new man led by the Holy Spirit in us when leading never loses a battle, and therefore Paul warned us to not quench the Spirit. Many, probably most Christian believers do quench the Spirit of God regularly and suffer losses as a result. That old man needs to killed once and for all. If we have the Holy Spirit in us, the power to kill the old man is there... for as Solomon put it: wisdom... hath killed her beasts!
"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
"Wisdom...
She hath killed her beasts..." Prov 9:1-2
The beasts are the old man and his ways, the beastly ways of man, which when followed lead us repeatedly back to sin. When we take our eyes off of the Lord even for a second, like Peter on the water, we begin to sink.
"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18
One who overcomes by the power of the Holy Spirit in him is overcoming the beast nature. When and if it is completely gone, there would be no more attraction and therefore no more temptation and therefore no more sin. We cannot do that, but the unquenched Spirit of God in us can.
Jesus overcame the world of temptations in himself [John 16:33], but each of by the power of the Holy Spirit in us must likewise overcome the world of temptation in "me"!
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" James 4:1
The war in me continues to rage until the final battle is won. Be gone: old man, double-mindedness, beasts!
"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
BrotherDThomas
New Member
This is another biblical anomaly that I run across all the time, whereas you state with specificity that we are to follow the 10 Commandments, of which you never told us "which 10 Commandments" within the scriptures you were referring too, of which could be another topic of interest. Nonetheless, the following passages directly contradict your notion of following the 10 Commandments because they are in the Old Testament that has vanished away! I agree with you to follow the Old Testament laws because of Jesus said to do so in His Sermon on the Mount, but how do we get away from the following passages in this respect that say we are NOT to follow the Old Testament laws anymore?
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13)
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6)
The above is also not taking into account that Jesus' inspired words, as our Yahweh Hebrew God incarnate, stated herewith: "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change His mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19).
If our God Jesus should not change His mind as the passage above so states, then why did He change His mind in writing the New Testament and discarding the Old Testament as the previous passages so state?! Do you see why at the onset in my welcoming link, that I say I have had to accept "the bad with the good" within the scriptures, that unfortunately contradicts at times the many concepts that are taken for granted today within the Christian faith?"
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There is only ONE 10 Commandments. They are clearly stated and listed in Exodus 20. It is only a modern objection to claim that there are any others than these. It was not long ago that Court Houses and Law Enforcement facilities across the world, especially in America, had a plaque of the 10 Commandments posted and framed on their wall for all to see. If somebody had asked which 10 Commandments at that time, they'd have been laughed out of the building. They are the same as ever, they have not changed, and will not ever.This is another biblical anomaly that I run across all the time, whereas you state with specificity that we are to follow the 10 Commandments, of which you never told us "which 10 Commandments" within the scriptures you were referring too, of which could be another topic of interest. Nonetheless, the following passages directly contradict your notion of following the 10 Commandments because they are in the Old Testament that has vanished away! I agree with you to follow the Old Testament laws because of Jesus said to do so in His Sermon on the Mount, but how do we get away from the following passages in this respect that say we are NOT to follow the Old Testament laws anymore?
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13)
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6)
The above is also not taking into account that Jesus' inspired words, as our Yahweh Hebrew God incarnate, stated herewith: "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change His mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19).
If our God Jesus should not change His mind as the passage above so states, then why did He change His mind in writing the New Testament and discarding the Old Testament as the previous passages so state?! Do you see why at the onset in my welcoming link, that I say I have had to accept "the bad with the good" within the scriptures, that unfortunately contradicts at times the many concepts that are taken for granted today within the Christian faith?"
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The New and Old Covenant are not the new and old commandments. The 10 Commandments have not changed between the two, just how they are associated with the two covenants.
The First Covenant was of the letter of the Law, written in stone.
The Last Covenant was of the spirit of the Law, written on the hearts of those who are established in Christ and regenerated.
Jeremiah 31:33
Hebrews 10:16
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart (10 Commandments written in STONE) out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put My Spirit (the Holy Spirit assists us in obeying the 10 Commandments) within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes (the 10 Commandments of Exodus 20), and ye shall keep My judgments and do them."
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Jesus did not change His mind.
Jesus is God. (per many verses in scripture)
God does not change. Malachi 3:6
Psalms 89:34
Matthew 5:18
Fulfilling the Law NEVER repealed any part of it, as Jesus lived His life as an example to us of how to live.
John 15:10
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Jim B
Well-Known Member
"For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
"But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6
"For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.” Galatians 3:10
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18
Should I believe you, GEN2REV, or what God's Word clearly says?
"But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code." Romans 7:6
"For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.” Galatians 3:10
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." Galatians 5:18
Should I believe you, GEN2REV, or what God's Word clearly says?
Believe whatever you like.
Post #1115 is submerged in Truth and scripture.
Most don't WANT to believe God's Truth. Nothing that "I" can do about those folks.
Where did He say that in the Sermon on the Mount?
If you are referring to this passage;
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus came to give His life as a ransom for many because God's chosen people could not keep the law to save themselves and so it is His turn now.
That is why those who believe in Him that are saved, will be judged by how they followed Him & His words which are higher than the works of the law.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
See the paradox here? Unless our righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven, and yet verse 19 says any one that breaks the least of His commandments and teaches others are called least BUT STILL in that kingdom of heaven.
So it is not about keeping His commandments in how we enter in but by the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ apart from the law is how we enter in that surpasses the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees.
How we live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ is key to whether or not we are the least by breaking any of His commandments & teaching others so or the great by keeping them & teaching others but we are in that kingdom of heaven by the grace of God for believing in Him.
That is what running that race is all about, looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House; 2 Timothy 2:18-21 & Hebrews 12;1-2 It is important because the least are the vessels unto dishonor that are in His House that did not depart from iniquity and like Esau & the prodigal son, missing out on being partakers of the first fruits of the resurrection to be that vessel unto honor on His House for not being ready as found abiding in Him. Luke 12:40-49 & 2 Corinthians 5:7-11
Paul was a regular "keeper of the Sabbath" while he was a persecutor of Christians. After he was converted, he was a regular keeper of the Lord's Day -- THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. But as an apostle and missionary, he used the Sabbath days in the various synagogues throughout the Roman empire to preach Christ. But his goal was not "keeping the Sabbath" but converting the unbelieving Jews. You go fishing were the fish congregate. But you do not become a fish.
As to Jesus of Nazareth, not only was He under the Law, but He kept the Law perfectly and went to the synagogues on Sabbath days. Yet He also healed on Sabbath days to show the Jewish religious leaders that they were not doing good works on Sabbath days -- as God expected. And they hated Him for exposing their hypocrisy. So when Sabbatarians ignore the Lord's Day, they too are being hypocritical. The 7th day Sabbath was given to Israel, not to Gentile Christians who are wannabe Israelites.
WAS THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH GIVEN TO ISRAEL? ABSOLUTELY
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Like the Old Covenant for the Jews of keeping the 10 commandments for obtaining salvation whereas under the New Covenant, God was going to do the saving and all He asks from us is to believe Him and thereby we are saved.
That Last Covenant is something God said He will do and all He wants from us is to believe Him; not just for having saved us, but have confidence in Him to finish His work in us to His glory as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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