Hebrews 3-4: Not About Sabbath-Keeping

[Hidden In Him]

OH ... ok.

Ok, as in you'll discuss the Chapters with me?

Come on, GEN2Rev. Give it a shot. :) This is what's good about discussing doctrines together; actually dealing with passages of scripture and analyzing them minutely, and I'm still looking for a taker here. The rest is just batting opinions back and forth, which isn't of much value in the big scheme of things.

 

[Christ4Me]

Hello, C4M.

This is the same interpretation that Amigo De Cristo holds to, only I don't really agree with that interpretation either. But if you could, go through the entire two Chapters with me and explain things in light of your interpretation. I'd be glad to discuss it with you.

God bless,
- H

Only God can cause the increase but I shall see how He leads me to share what I see as the truth in His words. Hebrews 3 at link below.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 3 - King James Version

Hebrews 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God....

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

I quoted the above reference form 3rd chapter as it leads into the 4th chapter at the link below; about how believing in Him is how we enter into that rest that we are saved.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So if someone was running that race as His disciple to obtain salvation, then he is denying Him and that rest by working for his salvation.

The Galatians were doing that thinking they can resort to their own power in finishing what Christ as started in us with the Holy Ghost, but by the religious flesh.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Granted this was attempted to be done by circumcision but even the commitment to follow Christ which is a man made bondage which is a promise declaring to God that he will finish it, even though God said He will do it all by the New Covenant and we were to believe Him to finish His work in us to His glory as we are the work of His hands.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So if any believer does circumcision, which is the smallest letter of the law, then they are to do the whole law, then what do you think a promise to God is, but the biggest letter of the law? Numbers 30:2 Ecclesiastes 5:4-7 Which is why Jesus warned against it, even swearing to fulfill that oath by pointing out we cannot do God's work in us;

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Running that race is to be done as saved believers going onto perfection in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son as His disciples looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.

 

[GEN2REV]

Ok, as in you'll discuss the Chapters with me?

Come on, GEN2Rev. Give it a shot. :) This is what's good about discussing doctrines together; actually dealing with passages of scripture and analyzing them minutely, and I'm still looking for a taker here. The rest is just batting opinions back and forth, which isn't of much value in the big scheme of things.

I have simplified the equation, though, HIH.

You want to dissect a portion of an equation while completely ignoring variables that exist to the contrary.

If those variables exist, then they cancel out all possibility of the theory you are proposing. See, it doesn't matter what Hebrews states, OR how it may possibly be translated, or exegeted, if there is evidence to the contrary of the premise that is not being accounted for.

Your premise is that a chapter or two in Hebrews might be teaching that the Sabbath rest is referring to a 1,000 year period of time, the millennium, and not to the weekly Sabbath day of rest. Correct?

That premise cannot stand if the author of that portion of the book is proven elsewhere to believe and practice something totally contrary.

Can you see the logic here?

 

[Hidden In Him]

You want to dissect a portion of an equation while completely ignoring variables that exist to the contrary.

I simply want to dissect people's exegesis of Hebrews 3 - 4, Lol.

Christ 4 Me is treating only a few verses, which is not exactly what I was asking for because I presented the whole thing, but at least he is making an attempt. If you hold that your position is the accurate one, why can you not do the same? It's only two Chapters.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Only God can cause the increase but I shall see how He leads me to share what I see as the truth in His words. Hebrews 3 at link below.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 3 - King James Version

Hebrews 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God....

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

I quoted the above reference form 3rd chapter as it leads into the 4th chapter at the link below; about how believing in Him is how we enter into that rest that we are saved.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So if someone was running that race as His disciple to obtain salvation, then he is denying Him and that rest by working for his salvation.

The Galatians were doing that thinking they can resort to their own power in finishing what Christ as started in us with the Holy Ghost, but by the religious flesh.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Granted this was attempted to be done by circumcision but even the commitment to follow Christ which is a man made bondage which is a promise declaring to God that he will finish it, even though God said He will do it all by the New Covenant and we were to believe Him to finish His work in us to His glory as we are the work of His hands.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So if any believer does circumcision, which is the smallest letter of the law, then they are to do the whole law, then what do you think a promise to God is, but the biggest letter of the law? Numbers 30:2 Ecclesiastes 5:4-7 Which is why Jesus warned against it, even swearing to fulfill that oath by pointing out we cannot do God's work in us;

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Running that race is to be done as saved believers going onto perfection in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son as His disciples looking unto the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ.

Thank you for this, Christ 4 Me.

I usually save going through an exegesis for the mornings, as it gives me something to go over and respond to to start the day, so I will give you a response when I've had time to look at it.

God bless, and thanks again.

 

[Cassandra]

My KJV translates this verse like this:

Heb 4:8
"For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."


This says to me that Jesus never changed the Sabbath, and it is still there, and that we are to do it.

Looking at the Greek, yields this:



Doesn't say for me anywhere here not to keep the 7th Day Sabbath.

 

[Cassandra]

Forgot to snarf this and put it in the other post. Mea culpa.

 

[Hidden In Him]

My KJV translates this verse like this:

Heb 4:8
"For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."


This says to me that Jesus never changed the Sabbath, and it is still there, and that we are to do it.

Looking at the Greek, yields this:
View attachment 20357


Doesn't say for me anywhere here not to keep the 7th Day Sabbath.

Hello, sister, and thanks for responding. :)

See, but this is precisely why I posted an exegesis on the entire two Chapters and included that as the subject matter I wished to address in the Title. Most people tend to isolate only a few verses and treat those only, without stopping to analyze them in light of the surrounding context.

I'm familiar with the Greek text, btw. The OP translation is based on a pretty exacting analysis of it. But again, the attempt here is to treat the entirety of both Chapters. We can go into an even wider scope after that as well, but I'm asking for exegesis of these two Chapters to start with.

Thanks for your response, and hope you are having a wonderful day!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Forgot to snarf this and put it in the other post. Mea culpa.

Your snarfing was obviously incomplete then. Thanks for bringing your snarf up to snuff. :cool:

 

[GEN2REV]

Most people tend to isolate only a few verses and treat those only, without stopping to analyze them in light of the surrounding context.

You're doing this exact same thing, H.

You are looking only at two chapters while refusing to consider other existing scripture that addresses the topic. Put those 2 chapters into context of the Bible as a whole, or even just the NT, and there is no sense in putting them under a microscope to look for traces of a substance that is proven not to be present by "surrounding context."

 

[Enoch111]

Heb 4:8
"For if [Joshua] had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." This says to me that Jesus never changed the Sabbath, and it is still there, and that we are to do it.

This passage has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th day sabbath. It is talking about the spiritual "rest" of those who simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Joshua could not give the Israelites spiritual rest, but only Yeshua (Yehoshua = Jesus = the Lord Jesus Christ) can give anyone that rest. Those who believe on Him are saved by grace through faith APART FROM works. Just as God ceased from His creative works and rested, believers are to cease from any works of the Law in order to rest in the salvation of Christ. Therefore to "labour" to enter into that rest is really ironical. It means let us cease from labouring in works of the Law as a means of salvation, which would then become "unbelief". The question remains: "Are Sabbatarians observing the 7th day Sabbath in order to earn their salvation?"

 

[Hidden In Him]

You're doing this exact same thing, H.

You are looking only at two chapters while refusing to consider other existing scripture that addresses the topic. Put those 2 chapters into context of the Bible as a whole, or even just the NT, and there is no sense in putting them under a microscope to look for traces of a substance that is proven not to be present by "surrounding context."

As per my previous post, "We can go into an even wider scope after that as well, but I'm asking for exegesis of these two Chapters to start with."

I'd be delighted to get into other Chapters in Hebrews, and then the entire Bible as well, but I am asking very politely - as politely as I know how - for an exegesis of Hebrews 3 and 4 to start with. Let's get started please. You are not an uneducated man. Break down these two Chapters first, and we will take it from there.

 

[Paul Christensen]

It is absolutely in opposition to what you are claiming in the OP.
Wrong. You're claiming that it IS dealing with the Sabbath, but that the definition of the Sabbath it is dealing with, is not the 7th Day Sabbath rest instituted at Creation Week. My post very succinctly proved that to be false. For Paul was a keeper of the 7th Day Sabbath day of rest, the Holy Sabbath that is a single day each week. NOT some millennium period of time.
Lol.

Yeah no. I won't do that.

It is entirely unnecessary. The opposing evidence to your theory has been presented. The ball is in your court to either prove that Paul was NOT a Sabbath-keeper, thus opening the door to the possibility of what you are proposing he is discussing in Hebrews, OR embracing the FACT that he WAS a Sabbath-keeper and concluding that your theory holds no water.

So if you will, go through the entire Bible and look for evidence that Paul would teach/discuss such a contradictory concept to what he believed and practiced.

God bless.

Well, of course Paul kept the 7th day Jewish Sabbath, because he was a Jew! That's not rocket science. But that was when he was fellowshiping with fellow Jews. Luke's reports in Acts clearly states that when Paul went to a town or city where there was a synagogue, he went and attended, Paul himself said that when with Jews he became a Jew, and when with Gentiles, he became a Gentile - so that he could be all things to all men so that he could save some. But this does not mean that he taught the Gentile believers that they are required to observe the 7th day Sabbath. There is not one reference in all of Paul's teaching that requires observance of the Jewish 7th day Sabbath.

 

[GEN2REV]

This passage has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th day sabbath. It is talking about the spiritual "rest" of those who simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Joshua could not give the Israelites spiritual rest, but only Yeshua (Yehoshua = Jesus = the Lord Jesus Christ) can give anyone that rest. Those who believe on Him are saved by grace through faith APART FROM works. Just as God ceased from His creative works and rested, believers are to cease from any works of the Law in order to rest in the salvation of Christ. Therefore to "labour" to enter into that rest is really ironical. It means let us cease from labouring in works of the Law as a means of salvation, which would then become "unbelief". The question remains: "Are Sabbatarians observing the 7th day Sabbath in order to earn their salvation?"

How do you figure Hebrews 4:8 "has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th Day Sabbath" when Hebrews 4:4 speaks specifically of it?

And how do figure that keeping the Sabbath is somehow 'works?'

God rested from all His 'works' on that day, as He expects us to as well.

It is quite literally a day of rest. Per God Almighty. No works.

 

[ReChoired]

Greeting all.

I noticed there has been some talk lately about Sabbath-keeping, and while I don't oppose the practice, neither do I hold it as necessary in the life of the believer today as some do on this forum. But I've noticed some cite verses like Hebrews 4:4 as evidence that we God still requires us to keep the 7th Day observance, and I thought this errant interpretation of Hebrews Chapters 3 and 4 should be addressed and cleared up.
...

You are in error, study this prayerfully please:

Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.

Or this:

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-4-vs-9-sabbatismos-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

 

[GEN2REV]

As per my previous post, "We can go into an even wider scope after that as well, but I'm asking for exegesis of these two Chapters to start with."

I'd be delighted to get into other Chapters in Hebrews, and then the entire Bible as well, but I am asking very politely - as politely as I know how - for an exegesis of Hebrews 3 and 4 to start with. Let's get started please. You are not an uneducated man. Break down these two Chapters first, and we will take it from there.

I just can't send myself in a direction that makes no sense to me. It is a backwards task you are endeavoring and I can't gear myself that way.

If there was nothing else in scripture to contradict your premise, it would make sense to zero-in on a specific book/chapter to decide if a concept was being discussed there.

Why don't you point out the specific verses you believe might refer to a millennium period and we'll discuss them one at a time? Does that not make much more sense? It will entail discussing the chapter themes anyway in order to prove our positions about the meaning of the verses.

So, how bout that?

 

[ReChoired]

Well, of course Paul kept the 7th day Jewish Sabbath, because he was a Jew! That's not rocket science. But that was when he was fellowshiping with fellow Jews. Luke's reports in Acts clearly states that when Paul went to a town or city where there was a synagogue, he went and attended, Paul himself said that when with Jews he became a Jew, and when with Gentiles, he became a Gentile - so that he could be all things to all men so that he could save some. But this does not mean that he taught the Gentile believers that they are required to observe the 7th day Sabbath. There is not one reference in all of Paul's teaching that requires observance of the Jewish 7th day Sabbath.

You are in error, study carefully please.

"The 7th SEALed in" study

Short:

https://archive.org/download/7th-sealed-in-revelation-8-vs-1-in-type-anti-type-snapshot/7th SEALed In - Revelation 8 Vs 1 in Type & Anti-TypeSnapshot.png

Long (PowerPoint):

7th SEALed In - Sermon - Study By brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Civil (See Evil) WAR - State of RuiNation

Long:
Civil (See Evil) War - State Of RuiNation, sermon study by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Cross-Bow: Enlightening the World, Revelation 6:1-2, etc.

CROSS BOW - Enlightening The World - Sermon Powerpoint brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

666:

Short:

https://archive.org/download/revelation-13-vs-18-666-snapshot-image/Revelation 13 Vs 18 - 666 - Snapshot Image.png

Many more here :

User Account

See all of the Sabbath and first day text studies, as for instance:

https://archive.org/download/revelation-1-vs-10-the-lords-day-the-seventh-day-the-sabbath-of-the-lord/Revelation 1 Vs 10 - The Lord's Day - The Seventh Day The Sabbath Of The LORD.png

Romans 14

https://archive.org/download/romans-14_202111/Romans 14.png

Colossians 2:

https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-14-16-nutshell-image/Colossians 2vs14-16 Nutshell Image.png

John 5:18

https://archive.org/download/john-5-vs-18-jesus-broke-the-sabbath-nutshell-image/John 5 vs 18 Jesus 'Broke' The Sabbath - Nutshell Image.png

LDS official sources:

https://archive.org/download/lds-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-aka-mormons-the-7th-day-is-t/LDS - The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (aka- Mormons) - The 7th Day Is The Sabbath - Their Own Sources Image.png

Pope Sylvester & Melanchthon:

https://archive.org/download/pope-sylvester-and-melanchthon-quotes-image/Pope Sylvester And Melanchthon Quotes Image.png

Acts 20:7

https://archive.org/download/acts-20-vs-7-nutshell-image/Acts 20 vs 7 Nutshell Image.png

1 Corinthians 16:

https://archive.org/download/1-corinthians-16-vs-2-nutshell-image/1 Corinthians 16 Vs 2 Nutshell Image.png

Matthew 11:28

https://archive.org/download/matthew-11-vs-28-is-jesus-the-sabbath-or-is-the-sabbath-the-rest-of-god-the-7th-day-image/Matthew 11 Vs 28 - Is Jesus The Sabbath Or Is The Sabbath The Rest Of God - The 7th Day Image.png

Hebrews 4:9

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-4-vs-9-sabbatismos-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

Hebrews 9:12

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-9-vs-12-the-holy-place-ta-hagia-image/Hebrews 9 Vs 12 The Holy Place Ta Hagia Image.png

Or see Investigative Judgment:

https://archive.org/download/investigative-judgment-antitypical-day-of-atonement-1844/Investigative Judgment Antitypical Day Of Atonement 1844.png

Or Scapegoat:

https://archive.org/download/scapegoat-azazel-satan-leviticus-16-nutshell-image/Scapegoat - Azazel - Satan - Leviticus 16 Nutshell Image.png

Or Jesus is True Israel:

https://archive.org/download/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png

Who Sabbath was really made for:

https://archive.org/download/who-was-the-sabbath-really-made-for-jesus/Who Was The Sabbath Really Made For - Jesus.png

Or if a sermon study preferred, here's one on Christmas:

PowerPoint
EVER GREEN Sermon Powerpoint by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Video Sermon:
EVER GREEN - Sermon/Study by bother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[GEN2REV]

Well, of course Paul kept the 7th day Jewish Sabbath, because he was a Jew! That's not rocket science. But that was when he was fellowshiping with fellow Jews. Luke's reports in Acts clearly states that when Paul went to a town or city where there was a synagogue, he went and attended, Paul himself said that when with Jews he became a Jew, and when with Gentiles, he became a Gentile - so that he could be all things to all men so that he could save some. But this does not mean that he taught the Gentile believers that they are required to observe the 7th day Sabbath. There is not one reference in all of Paul's teaching that requires observance of the Jewish 7th day Sabbath.

It doesn't matter if Paul outright stated that it must be observed or not. There is plenty of evidence that he, and Jesus, observed the Sabbath weekly. That is enough to prove that he would not have taught otherwise.

There is still no scripture that states that it was ever rescinded as a Commandment. Therefore, it is a false obligation that a verse must be found that shows Paul commanding it be done. It was continuously being done from long prior to Christ's life, observed throughout Christ's life, and immediately continued on the night of His death on the cross.

It never stopped being observed.

 

[Enoch111]

It is quite literally a day of rest.

Yes. God rested on the 7th day after six days of creation. But the passage in question is speaking about God's eternal rest through the redemptive work of Christ! So there are TWO divine rests in that passage. Which means that believers are to rest in Christ alone. This has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th day Sabbath, since the majority of Christians do not observe that day. Only unbelieving Jews cling to it, since they reject Christ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You are in error, study this prayerfully please:

Hebrews 3-4 [KJB], the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD JEHOVAH - "my rest" "remaineth" to My people.

Or this:

https://archive.org/download/hebrews-4-vs-9-sabbatismos-image/Hebrews 4 Vs 9 - Sabbatismos Image.png

Looks interesting, and should make for some interesting discussion. I'll go through it tomorrow (God willing), and thanks for the post.