Secure Eternal Salvation

[Taken]

Hi post,

Yup, He is head of The Church. What about Matthew 16:18? Who does he say he will build The Church upon?

UPON WHAT....“Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God”.
UPON WHO.... Everyone who Joins by becoming made Converted.

 

[post]

Take it up with Merriam-Webster . . .

he's no longer an active member

 

[post]

Saul was directly persecuting Jesus's CHURCH.
Jesus took it as a personal offense.

NOT difficult to understand that if you persecute His Church - you are persecuting HIM (Luke 10:16).

Saul wasn't persecuting the Roman church, but Messianic Jews.
so, should the believing Jews be regarded as the head of the church?
or should you also be regarded as persecuting Christ, if you persecute non-catholic believers?

 

[post]

Hi post,

Yup, He is head of The Church. What about Matthew 16:18? Who does he say he will build The Church upon?

What is The Church in Matthew 18:17 and 1 Timothy 3:15?

You are subject to your own authority if you are not subject to an "earthly organization".

What do you do when two of the "all believers" disagree with each other? According to Scripture you take your differences to The Church to settle your disagreement. Who do you go to post to settle your differences? Yourself?

• in Matthew 16, there are two words for rock - one is Simon Peter, and his name means a pebble. the other is petra, meaning a boulder, which isn't a person but a thing: belief that Christ is the Son of God.
  • • For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11)
  • the foundation of Christ's church is Himself: faith in Him. no one is saved by saying "i am of Peter!" -- that's carnal ((1 Corinthians 3)). we are saved by putting our trust in Christ.
• you need to put Matthew 18:17 together with 1 Corinthians 6:5. no one in the church at Corinth was going to Rome to settle a dispute.
  • • the presbyters have a point
  • moreover you need to put that together also with Matthew 5:23-25.
    • should you be talking to me if you don't like what i write? or to the vicar of my diocese? or to "someone wise among you"?
• no mention of a pontiff in 1 Timothy 3:15. instead, it is as i said, citing Romans 12:5 -- i belong to all, and all belong to me.
  • see also 1 Corinthians 3:20-23
• it is a non-sequitur that a person who is not subject to an earthly authority is subject only to themselves. compare 1 Corinthians 9:21
  • do you not believe in heavenly authority?
  • how did the council in Acts 15 decide the matter? they heard from men who gave their arguments, and they obeyed what 'seemed good to the Holy Spirit' ((v.28)) not 'whatever Peter said, cuz Peter'
    • the apostles clearly did not interpret Matthew 16:18 the way you do
    • the elders and apostles all met, and all who had wisdom spoke.
    • Peter has no higher standing than James here ((v.13)), but all are subject to the scripture

 

[post]

'certain men came from Rome saying, they must perform rites, pray to the goddess, and give obeisance to us in order to be saved...'​

were they correct?

were the believing pharisees in Acts 15 correct?
were the men from James in Galatians 2 correct?
was Peter correct in Galatians 2?

 

[post]

why does God say there are 7 churches in Revelation 1-3?

why doesn't God give glory to one unified church under a pontiff?

is God excommunicated?


hmmmm

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And this is what you'll never understand - short of the Holy Spirit oipening your eyes.

The fact that YOU reject the truth doesn't make ut "untrue".
It simply illustraes YOUR lack of faith . . .

My faith is in God. Unlike yours which is in men

I am not rejecting the truth, I am rejecting YOUR TRUTH

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As I stated before - showing you the truth isn't a matter of "pride".
If you don't like being a Protestant - then DON'T be one . . .

See,

The mere fact you call anyone who does not agree with you a Protestant. Shows your pride.

Your not showing me truth my friend. If you showed me truth, I could see what you say and the bible agree.. I have yet to see that in the doctrines we have discussed

 

[Eternally Grateful]

SOME of the Jews in Jesus day did get it right.

Yep they did, they looked to the word. Not to the leaders and to history and tradition.

if they did they would have followed the rest

They chose Jesus after they studied the Torah and accepted Pauls oral tradition about Jesus. Remember the Bereans and Theselonians? The Bereans got it right; the Thessalonians didn't. They both used the same Scripture (what we now call the OT) and came up with different conclusions. Just like today. We all read the same Scripture (the NT) and come up with different conclusions. Only one can be right. You think you are right. I think The Church is right.

Yep. Why did they get it right, they used scripture alone, and tested the spirit as we are all told to do

Why did the rest not get it right? They listened to history and their leaders. And refused to look at the word and test each spirit. They just blindly followed people

 

[Illuminator]

Nope, that's not a problem. Jesus started a church that has authority over it's members. It has organizaton, heiarchy etc. You reject that. I don't AND Christianity hasn't rejected that for 2,000 years. For you see first there was Christ as the teacher of the Truth and the Apostles were his students. And then there were men who were students of the Apostles who were taugt the Truth. And then there were students of those men who were taught the Truth etc etc for 2,000 year.

Your theory says that that teaching authority ended sometime in the last 2,000 years. Sooooo when did that teaching authority end Ferris?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It is the magisterium that is guided by the Holy Spirit into the Truth. Not every Priest.

How does the magisterium not see that Apostle John says every believer has the anointing? 1 John 2:20-27

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I completly udnerstand your theory that The Church is invisible and that it is made up of "real believers interspersed throughout the religious organizations of the world".

It's only invisible in that it does not exist in an official identifiable body of believers anymore like it did in the time of the Apostles.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Scripture makes it clear that there are church elders who are in charge of our soul and we are to listen to them and they have the authority to decide who is to be excommunicated.

We can see in Ephesians 4:11-13 that official offices of ministry are given to various individuals in the church. And that the pastors and elders are responsible for the flock - 1 Peter 5:2. And that they have authority to see to it that unrepentant hypocrites are expelled from the congregation - 1 Corinthians 5:5. The problem is these gifted believers among us are not all unified in a single body of leadership at this time in church history because of the corrupting influence of false doctrines and teachers that has suppressed the truth - Romans 1:18. Which Paul prophesied would happen soon after his departure - Acts of the Apostles 20:28-29.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus started a church that has authority over it's members. It has organizaton, heiarchy etc. You reject that.

No, I don't reject that. What I reject is the Catholic's claim to be that organization.

Your theory says that that teaching authority ended sometime in the last 2,000 years.

No, that is not my theory. I'm saying the Catholic church is not that authority.

 

[theefaith]

Do you want me to do that blindfolded or unblindfolded?

you can’t do it period!

 

[post]

It's only invisible in that it does not exist in an official identifiable body of believers anymore like it did in the time of the Apostles.

Even then there were wolves among them, and not everyone who seemed to have authority was actually speaking from the Spirit - prime examples being Judaizers, the faction of believing pharisees in Acts 15, and 'certain men from James' in Galatians 2, all of which may have comprised the visible leaders of the Jerusalem church.

 

[Taken]

Saul wasn't persecuting the Roman church, but Messianic Jews.

Correct...

Uh Peter, the Jew, sent out to preach to the Jews and then Israel (Tribesmen) is head of the Catholic Gentile Church....Peter just doesn’t know it!

Paul, A Gentile Roman citizen AND Saul, a Jewish Pharisee...born of a Gentile dad and Jewish mom....himself, knew from the get go, he was being sent to preach to the Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Taken]

No, I don't reject that. What I reject is the Catholic's claim to be that organization.


No, that is not my theory. I'm saying the Catholic church is not that authority.

Why are YOU POSTING with your words....when others are content to speak for you, then disagree with what they say for you?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why are YOU POSTING with your words....when others are content to speak for you, then disagree with what they say for you?

Now we're both confused, lol.
I don't know what you're driving at.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you can’t do it period!

It's a very simple text:

"...and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:20
​

I mean, we understand his command to teach others to obey his commands, and that he is continually in and with us by his Holy Spirit (Colossians 1:27). What is it that we are supposed to see that really isn't there?