"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Renniks]

So did God Forced you to take His gift of Salvation?

No. And he doesn't force me to remain in him either.

 

[Renniks]

Half truth.

Men can believe, keep enduring in belief by their own power, to the day they DIE, and they will be saved.

Men can believe, BECOME SAVED while alive in their flesh, and it matters not what day they DIE, they are already SAVED.

You appear to not understand the difference. You mix one man with another.

So yt are proposing two different forms of salvation? That's a new one!

 

[Cooper]

Christ laid down His life, that He might take it up again. That is the correct model, and the one we are to follow. Anything else is religion and the teachings of men.

I wonder why many of those people who were standing at the foot of the cross never believed in Jesus for salvation and the gift of eternal life when they learned the stone had been rolled away and Jesus had risen from the dead.

Remember, Jesus died for who-so-ever will come to him. The Jews were God's elect, He came to his own first, but his own rejected Him. So much for those who say they were elected. Instead those who believed came of their own free will, and equally, they can turn away of their own free will. We are not handcuffed to Jesus eternally, which makes a mockery of the OSAS cult that according to some here, say they are Always Saved. Firstly it is our choice and secondly, God has the last word.
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[Eternally Grateful]

No. And he doesn't force me to remain in him either.

a perfect loving god does not have to force people to stay with him. He does not give them a reason to walk away. Because he never fails

 

[Renniks]

Do you only skim read?

Do you know the difference between NOW....and LATER?
Do you know the difference between Physical Death and Spiritual Death?
Do you know the difference between Believe and Converted?
Do you know the difference between your power and Gods Power?
Do you know the difference between Gods OFFERING and Mans TAKING?

IF you are currently SAVED...at this moment...
It absolutely started.......WITH DEATH.

Every natural born person is born in sin.
Every natural born person is sentenced to Death.
Nothing can be “BORN AGAIN”, less it DIES!

What do you think “crucified WITH Christ means” ?

Now you are jumping to another form of death, not physical death. Why don't you stick to your topics?
I understand that we die to be born again in a spiritual sense. That wasn't what you were talking about before.
We are to die daily in a spiritual sense.
But our salvation doesn't depend on our spiritual perfection. See this is the balance I've had to strike to understand that what I was taught by the holiness church was wrong on one hand and what I was taught by the Calvinists was also wrong. The truth is in the middle. We can't attain spiritual perfection and we aren't just saved once and for all with no say in the matter once it happens either. On the one side you have this constant fear of losing salvation on the other hand you have this idea that even if you curse God to his face, become an atheist and die you are still saved if you once were.
Jesus wants our trust, perhaps above all else. And the way we know we trust him, is when the chips are down we cry out to him instead of trusting in ourselves or cursing his name.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wonder why many of those people who were standing at the foot of the cross never believed in Jesus for salvation and the gift of eternal life when they learned the stone had been rolled away and Jesus had risen from the dead.

Remember, Jesus died for who-so-ever will come to him. The Jews were God's elect, He came to his own first, but his own rejected Him. So much for those who say they were elected. Instead those who believed came of their own free will, and equally, they can turn away of their own free will. We are not handcuffed to Jesus eternally, which makes a mockery of the OSAS cult that according to some here, say they are Always Saved. Firstly it is our choice and secondly, God has the last word.
.

Yep. God has the last word

He also has the responsibility of keeping his family.

People do not lose faith in God unless the truly never met him.

you do not lose faith in someone unless they fail you

 

[Renniks]

Nope,

Because JOHN said IF THEY WERE OF US, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT

Those false teachers became false teachers because they were never saved. Everyone in the end chooses the path they truly trust.

You are adding your presuppositions to the verse.

 

[Cooper]

Yep. God has the last word

He also has the responsibility of keeping his family.

People do not lose faith in God unless the truly never met him.

you do not lose faith in someone unless they fail you

Jesus never fails, it is we who fail in any number of ways. Money and bright lights being two of the causes.

 

[Renniks]

Yep. God has the last word

He also has the responsibility of keeping his family.

People do not lose faith in God unless the truly never met him.

you do not lose faith in someone unless they fail you

Many people have been broken by what they believe is God or his people. It's easy to lose faith in this situation.
God didn't fail us but it feels that way sometimes if we are honest.

 

[BarneyFife]

Thank you for stating your own belief that Christ has not finished it, that salvation is not in Him, and that He is not the End.

Well, since I have no idea what "it" is, you're welcome.

I know this much: God's way is in the Sanctuary:

Psalm 77:13 KJV: Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

And in it, the first article of furniture I see upon entering is the altar of burnt offering. I think it might be pretty obvious what that represents. And with 5 other articles to attend to, while, indeed, something was finished at Calvary, that something couldn't be the process of Atonement. Unless the Sanctuary service was just some curious parlor game. The book of Hebrews certainly suggests otherwise.

He is also the Beginning, as well as the End. In the case of many well-meanig folks, unfortunately, their god is to small.

Nice little set of straw men, though. :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are adding your presuppositions to the verse.

nope.

I just take the verse at face value

1 John 2: for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus never fails, it is we who fail in any number of ways.

the reason we need christ is because we already failed.

Thats why he saved us.

we never stopped failing just because we were adopted into his family.

thats the part I believe many falter on. they think we all of a sudden like made it. then started to fail again.

we never stopped failing

 

[BarneyFife]

you do not lose faith in someone unless they fail you

Did Christ fail Peter? Is it our own faith that saves us? :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Many people have been broken by what they believe is God or his people. It's easy to lose faith in this situation.
God didn't fail us but it feels that way sometimes if we are honest.

god does not kick us out of his family because we failed to trust him in a situation

Salvation is not about being perfect. No one can do that.

Salvation is about our faith in Christ to save us

You don;t go from being bankrupt in spirit, realizing your guilt. realizing you are deserving of hell. because you have utterly failed to live up to Gods standard. and because of that must suffer death. to getting on your knees and asking God to have mercy on you. because you realize the ONLY way to salvation in through him.

to all of a sudden changing your mind and not believing you are a sinner, and Jesus is not real.

NOSAS people try to mix sanctification and justification.

I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in me WILL COMPLETE IT until the day of Christ

I am confident of this, why are you not?

 

[ScottA]

I wonder why many of those people who were standing at the foot of the cross never believed in Jesus for salvation and the gift of eternal life when they learned the stone had been rolled away and Jesus had risen from the dead.

Remember, Jesus died for who-so-ever will come to him. The Jews were God's elect, He came to his own first, but his own rejected Him. So much for those who say they were elected. Instead those who believed came of their own free will, and equally, they can turn away of their own free will. We are not handcuffed to Jesus eternally, which makes a mockery of the OSAS cult that according to some here, say they are Always Saved. Firstly it is our choice and secondly, God has the last word.
.

You misunderstand.

If one is actually saved, it is no longer they who live, but God who lives. Thus, it is no longer their [free] will, but God's. And it is not His will "that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did Christ fail Peter? Is it our own faith that saves us? :)

did peter lose salvation?

Did Jesus go to peter and demand he repent? Did he go and force him to bow down and ask him to be saved again?

 

[ScottA]

"It is finished."

Well, since I have no idea what "it" is, you're welcome.

Yes, this you have made perfectly clear.

 

[Cooper]

You misunderstand.

If one is actually saved, it is no longer they who live, but God who lives. Thus, it is no longer their [free] will, but God's. And it is not His will "that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

We are torn two ways between the physical man and the spiritual man, and usually it is the things of earth that win even though we may have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Saviour earlier. So, the believer goes back into the world, and there we have the backslider.
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[ScottA]

We are torn two ways between the physical man and the spiritual man, and usually it is the things of earth that win even though we may have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Saviour earlier. So, the believer goes back into the world, and there we have the backslider.
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That is the teachings of men.

Again..."if" one is saved...it is no longer they who live, but God who lives in them. And God does not "backslide", but "is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

 

[Cooper]

That is the teachings of men.

Again..."if" one is saved...it is no longer they who live, but God who lives in them. And God does not "backslide", but "is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
(14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
(16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
(17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
(20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
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