The tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

[Aunty Jane]

You are giving us a by --we make willful and deliberate choices too.

James 4:17 'Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Yes, but our inherited sinful condition gives us the benefit of repentance. This is why God instituted punishment for various sins, so as to act as a deterrent, or to teach us the value of obedience.

Neither the angels, nor the first humans had that sinful inheritance to excuse their behavior. Jesus' sacrifice covered our sins because sin leads us to do wrong....but not the ones we commit willfully and deliberately as you mentioned above.

Its like Paul lamented....in Romans 7:14-24...
"For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death?"

He answered that question in verse 25...
"Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law."

 

[Taken]

The devil and his seed were plain to see, because Jesus also identified him and them (John 8:44).....but God’s curse was not to any literal snake, it was directed to the one who used that creature to deceive the woman and interfere with God’s stated purpose.

The seed of the woman was Jesus, but he is not the product of human reproduction. His origin is from heaven, not from the earth. So who is the “woman” who produced him? Not Eve. God is spoken of as his Father, so who is his mother?
His earthly mother was told that her child was God's son....a product of his holy spirit. So Mary is not the woman. This woman has existed since the rebellion in Eden.

The Bible identifies God’s woman, or the wife of Jehovah, as being a heavenly organization Scripturally called “Jerusalem above.” A witness to this fact is given to us in the inspired letter to the Hebrew Christians. Referring first to Mount Sinai in Arabia, the mountain from which the Ten Commandments of God’s law covenant with the nation of Israel were given, and which mountain was pictured by the servant girl Hagar, Hebrews 12:18-28 says, in part:

This is why I believe that the totalitarian 'one world government' that is foretold in Revelation will succeed in today‘s world more so that at any other time in history......we have lost the art of self-sufficiency....gradually, over time we have surrendered the ability to provide the necessities of life for ourselves, and handed it over to those who will ultimately use it against us. The system provides everything we need to live...our food, water, clothing, electricity, currency ect.....and it keeps us so busy earning the money to pay for these conveniences, that they can hold those things over our heads to ensure that we comply....on pain of their withdrawal. Imagine!
Our freedom is being eroded at the rate of knots.....and we are at their mercy. Even the ‘preppers’ will be at a disadvantage.....if the hungry know that they have food stores, they will kill to obtain it.

The end will indeed be a “great tribulation” for mankind. (Matthew 24:21) Our trust must be in God.....

I agree with most that you have said. And differ in some things.

Adam named the woman in Genesis. I believe the reference to her may lean more toward “mother Earth”.
Mary was not told her child was God’s son, but rather she would have a son, and that he would be called “The Son of God”. Mary’s son was called “the Son of Man.” And agree not a human man.
While the city of Jerusalem is the center of the gleam in Gods eye, so to speak, (ie the seat of power, of the throne) cities do not generally have a gender assignment.
Nations however do have a general gender assignment of the feminine. I would say Israel (is the feminine) and is Gods People. Gentiles do not become Israel, however, as Jesus took upon Himself the seed of Abraham, (a faithful servant of Gods People), Jesus became entitled to the promise of land to Abraham’s descendants...including king David’s everlasting throne, IN Jerusalem. Gentiles of the Earth, becoming the bride of Christ Jesus, become “sons of God”, through marriage.....same as Jesus became the Son of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, king David....through A marriage, between Mary and Joseph, whom Joseph was a direct line descendant of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, (ie Israel), king David....as Joseph was revealed of the House of David....
And the most prominent reason Mary was highly favored, to deliver forth a Son of Man OF the House of David...being her son, would also be OF the House of David, entitled to legally sit on king Davids throne.
* It’s a big picture of that which is joined with God, and becomes joined with God, through He that is called the Son of God, (how and why) and that which rejects God, eventually will have no part in Gods family, or Gods’ family’s Habitat...Heaven and Earth. (Currently divided, but the division shall be removed)...
...The Serpent was a snake. I believe an original snake had legs, but via the curse, that is no longer the case. Snakes slither on the ground, can hide in trees, can hide in plain sight, can multiple quickly, are feared by many, can destroy a man without leaving evidence, can be small and deadly poisonous, or large and intimidating. They are cunning. Referencing a man as a snake, is a reference to a man as a cunning deceptive wicked man...more so men who take on themselves being as sons of Satan. It’s not that men have the actual SEED of Satan, but rather by choice to be like Satan, sneaky, lying, cheating, deceptive, while being intriguing with its beautiful colors and cleverness.
...On the flip side, God does give spirits of men, the SEED of God, which is how a mans natural spirit, becomes born again, of a spirit that can never die.
...Big Picture, Fascinating IMHO.
...And agree, foretold, and in the midst we can observe today, Wicked men colluding to be Masters of the World and the population at large their slaves.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

Adam named the woman in Genesis. I believe the reference to her may lean more toward “mother Earth”.

Her name means..."Living One"; apparently related to the Heb. verb cha·yahʹ, “live”, and why Adam said she was to become "the mother of everyone living". (Genesis 3:20)

Mary was not told her child was God’s son, but rather she would have a son, and that he would be called “The Son of God”. Mary’s son was called “the Son of Man.” And agree not a human man.

Luke 1:30-33....
"So the angel said to her: “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.”
Mary well knew her scriptures and would have realized that the angel was informing her of the birth of their Messiah. The "son of David" that they were awaiting...and the coming of his kingdom. They really had no idea of the big picture until after Christ's death and resurrection.....the outpouring of the holy spirit revealed much about the details that had previously been missing.

While the city of Jerusalem is the center of the gleam in Gods eye, so to speak, (ie the seat of power, of the throne) cities do not generally have a gender assignment.

"Babylon the great" is called a city that has a "kingdom over the kings of the earth"...she is portrayed as a harlot. (Revelation 17&18) God's people are told to "get out of her".....so, who is "she".....and how do you think God's people are to obey that command?

* It’s a big picture of that which is joined with God, and becomes joined with God, through He that is called the Son of God, (how and why) and that which rejects God, eventually will have no part in Gods family, or Gods’ family’s Habitat...Heaven and Earth. (Currently divided, but the division shall be removed)...

God was always going to have a family in heaven and on earth.....but the rebellion in Eden simply cause a detour. God allowed time for that detour.
Dealing with the 'free will' gifted to his children means that God has to leave it to them to make their own decisions, but "free will" can never be truly free or else one person's freedom would encroach on another's...therefore God set reasonable limits for them. The devil used those minor restrictions to tell major lies, setting the humans up for a fall.

I believe that the 7th day was set aside for all eventualities to take place, and an opportunity to learn to drive free will responsibly. Every trouble that man experiences is due to the abuse of someone's free will. Many of us now have enough examples to discern the wisdom of using our free will to bring praise to our Creator, rather than to give him grief.....but sadly, not all.

...The Serpent was a snake. I believe an original snake had legs, but via the curse, that is no longer the case.

Would it have mattered what configuration it was? I don't believe that it was a literal snake.....it was more than likely satan transformed into a familiar creature to fool the woman. Satan was a "covering cherub" in the garden, which I believe was a guardianship position. Angels in the Bible could materialize in ancient times, so perhaps he just took on the body of a snake, or used one like a puppet master? In any case, the ruse worked as he planned it to.

men who take on themselves being as sons of Satan. It’s not that men have the actual SEED of Satan, but rather by choice to be like Satan, sneaky, lying, cheating, deceptive, while being intriguing with its beautiful colors and cleverness.

Yes, apparently snakes were cautious creatures. But having said that, we have to remember that animals had no fear of man at that time, so man would not have had fear of animals back then either. It was when Noah came out of the ark that a fear of man was instilled in the animals.....
"Then God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every animal of the earth and on every bird of the sky; on everything that crawls on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea. They are handed over to you. 3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant."

So only when man was given permission to eat flesh, was the fear of man instilled in the animals to give them a chance to escape. God never told his human servants why he had decided for them to become carnivores. Perhaps their need for protein had increased due to the effects of the flood? Perhaps this is when the animals also became carnivores. They had all been vegetarians previously.
"And to every wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so." (Genesis 1:30)

...On the flip side, God does give spirits of men, the SEED of God, which is how a mans natural spirit, becomes born again, of a spirit that can never die.

I do not see that those who resume life on earth as God first intended, will be granted immortality.....they will again have access to "the trees of life" as seen in John's Revelation. In Eden, "the tree of life" gave the humans ability to gain everlasting life in paradise conditions, in their mortal flesh. Immortality originally belonged to God alone.
There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality. Immortals cannot die.

.Big Picture, Fascinating IMHO.

I probably have a bit of a different "big picture" to you......I see Jesus as facilitating the restoration of God's first purpose in Eden. I see that a small number of humans have been chosen to rule with Christ in heaven, (his elect) but for the majority of the human race, life on earth as God first purposed will be enjoyed forever on our beautiful planet with forever to explore whatever we wish.

The fulfillment of Revelation 21:2-4 is what I am really looking forward to....:)

 

[Taken]

Her name means..."Living One"; apparently related to the Heb. verb cha·yahʹ, “live”, and why Adam said she was to become "the mother of everyone living". (Genesis 3:20)


Luke 1:30-33....
"So the angel said to her: “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.”
Mary well knew her scriptures and would have realized that the angel was informing her of the birth of their Messiah. The "son of David" that they were awaiting...and the coming of his kingdom. They really had no idea of the big picture until after Christ's death and resurrection.....the outpouring of the holy spirit revealed much about the details that had previously been missing.

I was emphasizing ... she gave birth to a son....Called JESUS, Son of Man.
WILL BE CALL...was future...not at her present day.

(In context, sort of like proclaiming in the day Mary Trump gave birth to Donald, she birthed the POTUS. No. She gave birth to a son, who later Became POTUS.
And why it is funky to me for “some” to proclaim Mary gave birth to God.

 

[Taken]

"Babylon the great" is called a city that has a "kingdom over the kings of the earth"...she is portrayed as a harlot. (Revelation 17&18) God's people are told to "get out of her".....so, who is "she".....and how do you think God's people are to obey that command?

Okay, I see your point. Thank you.
How to obey? Depart from her.

 

[Taken]

God was always going to have a family in heaven and on earth.....but the rebellion in Eden simply cause a detour. God allowed time for that detour.
Dealing with the 'free will' gifted to his children means that God has to leave it to them to make their own decisions, but "free will" can never be truly free or else one person's freedom would encroach on another's...therefore God set reasonable limits for them. The devil used those minor restrictions to tell major lies, setting the humans up for a fall.

I believe that the 7th day was set aside for all eventualities to take place, and an opportunity to learn to drive free will responsibly. Every trouble that man experiences is due to the abuse of someone's free will. Many of us now have enough examples to discern the wisdom of using our free will to bring praise to our Creator, rather than to give him grief.....but sadly, not all.

I believe similar, but not exactly.
Heaven and Earth...currently divided, but with a bit off transcending.
Heaven is the created Habitat (Estate) for spirits.
Earth is the created Habitat (Estate) for mankind/animals.
Yet...spirits could come to earth, and saved souls and quickened spirits of men can go to heaven.
I believe the “dividing barrier” firmament, will exist no more, When the Heavens and Earth are ‘restored’, made anew.

Liberty, Freedom, is grounded in the framework, of exercising ones Liberty, while NOT infringing on an others Liberty. (Too bad we have Thugs sitting in Govt seats for the last 100 years, with the exact opposite mentality, and poison pen to corruptly exact their corrupt intents.)

Allowing time...for a detour, as you put it in a one word, agree. A time for reconciliation, yes agree.

 

[Taken]

Would it have mattered what configuration it was? I don't believe that it was a literal snake.....it was more than likely satan transformed into a familiar creature to fool the woman. Satan was a "covering cherub" in the garden, which I believe was a guardianship position. Angels in the Bible could materialize in ancient times, so perhaps he just took on the body of a snake, or used one like a puppet master? In any case, the ruse worked as he planned it to.


Yes, apparently snakes were cautious creatures. But having said that, we have to remember that animals had no fear of man at that time, so man would not have had fear of animals back then either. It was when Noah came out of the ark that a fear of man was instilled in the animals.....
"Then God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every animal of the earth and on every bird of the sky; on everything that crawls on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea. They are handed over to you. 3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant."

I do believe a literal snake. I do believe God divided the animals...clean and not clean.
Man was created and made....VERY GOOD....that went by the wayside, when NOT GOOD was introduced, and enticing.
In our present flesh, men were being taught...rules, washing, cleansing, purifying, eat food declared Clean, etc. to learn, practice....the elementary methods, to become, GOOD, again....so man may Become GOOD, and...
Acceptable to God, that God would BE WITH a man and that man accounted WITH God.
* Then comes Jesus’...OFFERING Gods Spirit (Power), IN a man and Forever that man would be “WITH” God, and God “WITH” that man. Doesn’t matter, WHAT you eat, WHAT you wear, your financial station, RICH or POOR, your clout station, FAMOUS or UNKNOWN, Pretty, Ugly, Smart, Dumb....Liked by people, disliked by people; healthy or sickly....
...YOU are worthy to God, and HE will Keep you, by His Power, WITH Him...
AWESOME offer. In context, why would one refuse such an offer?
BUT many do.

Will the snake be restored? How about the pigs whereby evil spirits in men, were cast out of men into pigs? I tend to believe, since animals Can NOT Sin Against God, God has a restoration plan for animals. We’ll see someday.
(I can’t wrap my head around hugging a Komodo dragon...lol).

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Taken....Will have to respond tomorrow, need to get some sleep now....
Till then, take care.

 

[Cassandra]

Because satan was a covering cherub in Eden, (a guardianship position) he was right there, all the while observing all that was going on.....he began to entertain wrong thoughts. (James 1:13-15) and he did not dismiss them, but allowed them to grow until he acted to become the first rebel in God’s family of spirit creatures. He wanted worship (to be “like God”) and plotted how to separate the humans from their Creator so that he could gain their worship for himself.

I don't think the covering cherub mean that satan oversaw Eden. He was covering cherub on God's throne. Eden needed no overseer because God walked there.
Exodus 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

 

[Cassandra]

Here it is, not initially confined to Eden but I believe firstly manifesting in Eden to corrupt, deceive, and exploit the innocent occupants.
Eze 28:12-13 . . . "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (13) You were in Eden, the garden of God; etc . . . all angels were originally created to serve God and align with His Will.

Isa 14:13-14 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

From my notes:

There is a branch of Biblical Theology known as Satanology, which simply means the study of Satan. As you may know the name Satan means "adversary" which is defined as a person, group, or force that opposes.

Firstly, God always knows everything that is knowable so He has always known the who, what, when, where, how, how many, how much, and why of His opposition. From this we can deduce that God knew opposition to Him would be inevitable. It was always a factor God was aware of.

Secondly, it is possible from Scripture to arrive at the conclusion that Lucifer held a privileged position in heaven and had a close working relationship with God prior to the Creation of the Universe, but when, as Lucifer, he saw how close Adam and Eve were to God as the Lord in pleasure at their obedience and innocence walked with them in the Garden of Eden, he began to manifest pride and to contest his subservient position which he was now finding unacceptable.

Thirdly, it is possible from Scripture to perceive that the so-called "original sin" was not Adam and Eve's disobedience in eating of the forbidden fruit, but was Satan's opposing of God's Will in deceiving Eve with lies that contradicted God's instruction to them.

For further study it helps to be aware that there are 3 heavens mentioned in the Bible as follows:

1. The Atmospheric Heaven, namely the sky directly above the earth's surface.
2. The Celestial Heaven, namely outer space which contains the stars.
3. The Divine Heaven, namely the theographical location of God and His throne.

God can manifest His Presence wherever He wants, so that after Satan rebelled as described, it was still possible for him to inhabit the atmospheric heaven and the celestial heaven and present himself before God on occasions. The war against Michael and his angels takes place in the celestial heaven at which time Satan is cast down to the earth as God's Plan for the Day of Judgment further unfolds.

No one said God couldn't manifest his presence (Where is this coming from)And No one said satan didn't have a privileged position. It is very evident from scripture. He was covering cherub. But he could have fallen before Eden. It's a guess at best.

I don't think what propelled him was jealousy over humans. I think it was pride.

Isaiah 14:13-14 13You said in your heart: “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of assembly, in the far reaches of the north. 14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”

 

[Aunty Jane]

Okay, I see your point. Thank you.
How to obey? Depart from her.

In order to depart from “Babylon the great” before God dishes out her deserved punishment, we have to identify her in order to extract ourselves.....and the consequences for not taking that action are dire.

So who is she, and how did God’s “people” get to be “in” her in the first place?
This is very important, because unless you know who she is, you cannot “depart from her”.

 

[Taken]

In order to depart from “Babylon the great” before God dishes out her deserved punishment, we have to identify her in order to extract ourselves.....and the consequences for not taking that action are dire.

So who is she, and how did God’s “people” get to be “in” her in the first place?
This is very important, because unless you know who she is, you cannot “depart from her”.

Inanutshell I would say Corrupt Government. Sort of like today in the US.
I am not leaving the US, but I avoid playing in their sandbox. They have nothing I want, and nothing they “offer”, do I reach out and take.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But he could have fallen before Eden. It's a guess at best.

I think he did. I did a word study of the beginning of Genesis years ago and became convinced that this was where He cast satan to. If you look up all the words and roots of words you get a very different idea of the darkness that was here.
You begin to see so many strange things, like…all the places where it conspicuously does NOT say, and God saw that it was good.

 

[Cassandra]

Thanks once again SBG!♥ (what do you use as a concordance?) Do you use Logos or eSword?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thanks once again SBG!♥ (what do you use as a concordance?) Do you use Logos or eSword?

Ah, no, that doesn’t work for me, I tried and tried. I couldn’t figure out how they worked! I use the humongously heavy exhaustive concordance and look up all the root words too. The feel of the root word helps me to feel which definition should be used in the context, because a word in Hebrew can mean like fifty different things.

And there are places you actually HAVE to use the root words more. Like…that first darkness and light spoken of are BEFORE the sun and moon are created, so using a definition of night for the darkness and day for the light doesn’t help at all.
I came away with the darkness being called: a twist away of the light and the light being called…everlasting, glorious.

It made me see how God could say, I create darkness. He creates it by twisting away from/ casting away from Himself. God creating darkness is a negative creation. He never said let there be darkness. Darkness is created by removing light, Himself.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I believe similar, but not exactly.
Heaven and Earth...currently divided, but with a bit off transcending.
Heaven is the created Habitat (Estate) for spirits.
Earth is the created Habitat (Estate) for mankind/animals.

I agree, there are two distinctly separate realms where the living creatures who inhabit them are designed to live there, permanently.

Yet...spirits could come to earth, and saved souls and quickened spirits of men can go to heaven.
I believe the “dividing barrier” firmament, will exist no more, When the Heavens and Earth are ‘restored’, made anew.

This is where we will diverge a little.....
Spirits, in the form of materialised angels did manifest themselves on earth, but it was only to convey messages from God to his human servants. They did not remain here once their messages were delivered. So because “angels” are “messengers” their visits here had a purpose. I don’t see them as visitors who can just come and go at will. If they have a mission from God, that is the only time we hear about them.

In Genesis we see that rebel angels who had joined satan in his opposition to God, decided to manifest and remain in materialised form and even indulge in the pleasures of the flesh. They produced children who were freakish giants with a violent and lustful disposition. This was clearly out of harmony with the will and purpose of the Creator who responded to their influence on earth by eliminating them from existence, along with all the humans who had adjusted to their awful ways and adopted them.

But why a global flood? What was accomplished by God saving Noah and his family the way he did? What happened to those rebel angels after that?
The flood did not rid the world of wickedness nor did it stop the corruption from returning, so why would God do something so drastic if it’s results were only temporary? Rebellion started again with Noah’s great grandson.....

As far as humans going to heaven.....if Adam and his wife had not succumbed to the devil’s temptations, there would never have been a need for Jesus to come into the world to save their children. So, in that case, no human would ever have gone to heaven to assist Christ in his kingdom because the purpose of the kingdom is reconciliation of faithful mankind back with their Creator. Christ’s thousand year reign meant taking a select number of humans to make up that governing arrangement. (Revelation 20:6)
So I believe that the two realms were meant to be separate but with God and his angels guiding and directing matters as his purpose in connection with material creation unfolded.
We have no idea what the future holds after that.....but we know it will be wonderful....as God intended. (Isaiah 55:11)

Liberty, Freedom, is grounded in the framework, of exercising ones Liberty, while NOT infringing on an others Liberty. (Too bad we have Thugs sitting in Govt seats for the last 100 years, with the exact opposite mentality, and poison pen to corruptly exact their corrupt intents.)

Since God handed rulership of this earth over to the devil, (1 John 5:19; Luke 4:5-6) we have seen his stamp on all the world powers down through time. Violence, immorality and bloodshed have been a common theme in all of them. We now have more sophisticated forms of barbarism these days. The weapons of their warfare are now more heinous. Mass destruction is the aim and the variety of ways to achieve it is mind boggling.

But no weapon formed against God or his worshippers will succeed because we have God’s guarantee that if our worship is uncontaminated by false religious beliefs and practices that the devil introduced, he will protect us.

Allowing time...for a detour, as you put it in a one word, agree. A time for reconciliation, yes agree.

If you step back and take a long range look, you will see that God *acted* only once in his creation of the material universe....after that he only *reacted* to the actions of his free willed children. This is in accord with the meaning of his name Yahweh.....which the Jewish Tanakh renders as “I Will Be What I Will Be”.....giving a clear indication of his intentions to BE whatever he needed to BE in order for his will to be carried out.

Humans were undergoing the necessary refinement planned for this seventh day to play out as it would. God was prepared for all contingencies and did what was necessary to contain it, whilst giving us the lesson. By recording the events and his response to them, we have a written record of God’s dealings with the human race, and the also the machinations of the devil, being able to identify his activities which are very predictable. He uses no new tactics. So we are fully equipped with God’s word and his spirit to come through this time of education and refinement, wiser for the experience...unless we have been duped by the devil, using his tried and tested methods to steer us away from the truth.
God will not interfere with our free willed choices.

 

[Taken]

I agree, there are two distinctly separate realms where the living creatures who inhabit them are designed to live there, permanently.


This is where we will diverge a little.....
Spirits, in the form of materialised angels did manifest themselves on earth, but it was only to convey messages from God to his human servants. They did not remain here once their messages were delivered. So because “angels” are “messengers” their visits here had a purpose. I don’t see them as visitors who can just come and go at will. If they have a mission from God, that is the only time we hear about them.

I believe there are billions of angels, and many have ongoing assignments, being there are billions of people. Some put it in a fashion as individuals have their own angels assigned to them....irrelevant to me. But I do believe they are everywhere. And I do ask them to be with me many times, traveling, flipping through Scripture coaxing me to stop at a particular passage, etc.
My thanks be to God, they Serve Him, and to my benefit.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Matthew 7:17-19
[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Genesis 2:9
[9] And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:5-6
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. [6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ....a good tree or an evil tree? The tree grew fruit because Adam and Eve ate of it. Was the fruit from the tree...evil fruit or good fruit?

To eat it led to death. Satan convinced her God didn’t tell the truth about that. I get the sense that they were created innocent of any wrongdoing and covered by God. They didn’t know anything about disobedience and the result of disobedience. But the thief comes to kill and destroy innocence.
I say it was an evil tree and evil fruit.
I think the tree was disobedience leading to death and the other tree was obedience leading to eternal life.

 

[Taken]

In Genesis we see that rebel angels who had joined satan in his opposition to God, decided to manifest and remain in materialised form and even indulge in the pleasures of the flesh. They produced children who were freakish giants with a violent and lustful disposition. This was clearly out of harmony with the will and purpose of the Creator who responded to their influence on earth by eliminating them from existence, along with all the humans who had adjusted to their awful ways and adopted them.

But why a global flood? What was accomplished by God saving Noah and his family the way he did? What happened to those rebel angels after that?
The flood did not rid the world of wickedness nor did it stop the corruption from returning, so why would God do something so drastic if it’s results were only temporary? Rebellion started again with Noah’s great grandson.....

Both angels and mankind have freewill.
IMO, from the beginning, with God speaking Good in Adams ear...without knowledge of opposition to Good...the choice of freewill is limited.
Yes, “giants” in days of old. Yes, a “flood”. And Yes, I believe a reproduction of “giants” remained. Noah, wife, 3 sons, 3 daughter-in-laws. We know little of the daughter-in-laws...offspring of giant clans? IDK. In Numbers 13: 28-33, we find accounts of Israels scouts, making reports of offspring of giants, and their large stature, and causing their hesitancy to take over their land.
A flood, was the result of Gods Anger, against the majority population...
But was there a “remnant” that remained to keep that, freewill choice option relevant? Via, a daughter-in-law...? Maybe so. IDK.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don't think the covering cherub mean that satan oversaw Eden. He was covering cherub on God's throne. Eden needed no overseer because God walked there.

Exodus 25:20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

Yet the Bible indicates that Satan was the “covering cherub” “in Eden”. When the humans were kicked out of the garden, a cherub was stationed as a guard so that no human could enter the garden and access “the tree of life”.
There is rank among God’s angels as the Bible indicates. The cherubs on the cover of ark of the covenant could also indicate guardianship.

Seraphs are the highest rank under the Archangel, Michael. These, I believe, are the attendants upon God’s throne, they are described by God’s prophet Isaiah 6:1-2 as having multiple wings.
Cherubs were seen also in attendance upon God’s throne in Ezekiel 10:9-13. But these were more like runners alongside God’s celestial chariot. God’s faithful angels know their place and their duties.
Revelation 4:6-9 also describes these amazing creatures.

The description of the seraphs as having feet, wings, and so forth, must be understood to be symbolic, their likeness to the form of earthly creatures being only representative of abilities they have or of functions they perform, just as God often speaks symbolically of himself as having eyes, ears, and other human features. Showing that no man knows the form of God, the apostle John says: “Beloved ones, now we are children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is.”(1 John 3:2)
Spirit creatures have no visible form, so giving them earthly attributes helps us to ‘see’ them in our mind’s eye, just as God’s ancient servants saw them in vision. They each had difficulty describing them in human terms.