Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Lifelong_sinner]

Have you?

Oh wait. We all know you have. It's heretical not to.

Congratulations.

i sin everyday. Everyone does. Im already aware of that. But you still didnt say that you do. And now everyone knows you think you dont sin. My work here is done.

 

[PinSeeker]

Robert derrick, have you sinned at all in the last 5 days??

I’ve asked him this same question, numerous times with no response from him. He thinks he no longer sins. That's heretical.

Ah, I don't think I would say it's heretical, but... Well, in John's words (again) in 1 John 2:8, self-deception; the truth is not in him... at least regarding the sinful state of his heart.

Hey, you know, look back at every single post of Robert's in this thread. Just about everything he has said ~ how he has said it ~ is mean-spirited, spiteful, belittling, and even hateful... devoid of the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control [Galatians 5:22-23]) and thus dripping with sin.

But, if he has the Spirit, he will come around at some point; the Spirit will bring him around. Hey, perhaps he already has but just can't admit it, which... would be pride... and that's... you know, um... yeah, sinful. :)

Grace and peace to all.

 

[robert derrick]

James 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

In that verse, a failure to do good , like give all your money to the poor and follow Christ and don't do it, that is a sin.

What did Jesus say, who has been perfect in following the Lord? But God gives grace. Our relationship with God is not by the letter but by the spirit.
That is where these people mess up. They really are lawbreakers and dont know it. The only one without sin was Christ, He is the only one good and perfect (lamb of God without spot or blemish) and people who say they do not sin are pretending to be Christ, Jesus warns us about many false Christs to come, who are not worthy of the name but they claim they are. Christ tells us only God is good, why do you call me good? Well now Christ is God and people are not, they are also not good.

1. Matthew 10:38
   And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Matthew 16:24
   Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Matthew 19:21
   Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

KJ21
Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
ASV
To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
AMP
So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.
AMPC
So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.
BRG
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
CSB
So it is sin to know the good and yet not do it.
CEB
It is a sin when someone knows the right thing to do and doesn’t do it.
CJB
So then, anyone who knows the right thing to do and fails to do it is committing a sin.
CEV
If you don’t do what you know is right, you have sinned.
DARBY
To him therefore who knows how to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.
DLNT
Therefore, to one knowing to be doing good and not doing it, to him it is a sin.
DRA
To him therefore who knoweth to do good, and doth it not, to him it is sin.
ERV
If you fail to do what you know is right, you are sinning.
EHV
So, for the one who knows the right thing to do and doesn’t do it, this is a sin.
ESV
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Quoting Scripture to condemn them that go and sin no more according to the Scripture?

In that verse, a failure to do good , like give all your money to the poor and follow Christ and don't do it, that is a sin.

The problem with sinners is they don't know the law of Christ, but only what they want to think is the law. And then of course, they just go ahead and break it anyway, because sinners are not under the law of Christ, but under their own law, which they also break at will.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This being the case, the problem with instructing sinners in the Scripture of God is hopeless, the Scriptures being spiritual, not carnal.

And so, we have an avowed sinner using a rich young man as the example of Christianity, who asked in addition to keeping all the commandments, what good thing he should also do to be saved, and yet condemn Christians who say keeping all the commandments and doing more good is necessary to obtain eternal salvation.

They really are lawbreakers and dont know it.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So an avowed lawbreaking sinner is judging as lawbreakers them that claim the law ought not to be broken to obtain eternal salivation.

You see how sinners with carnal minds don't know what they are talking about, when it comes to the law of Christ?

The only one without sin was Christ.

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Once again, we have an avowed sinner not only casting stones, but casting them at those who say Christians ought not to be sinners of the world.

To keep your law and not be an ignorant 'real' lawbreaker, all I have to do is to return to my sins and be like you, a normal knowing lawbreaker?

No thanks. I'd rather be ignorant of the sins you say I commit, than to commit the sins you do knowingly, willingly, and unjustifiably.

He is the only one good and perfect (lamb of God without spot or blemish).

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Because as he is, so are we in this world.

Who's pretending to be Christian? Them that are pure as He is in this world according to the commandment of Scripture, or them that say it is impossible to be pure as He is in this world contrary to the Scripture?

I choose the former and not the latter. I'd rather be pure as He is in this world than a sinner of the world, which I had enough of when I purified my heart to be a Christian like Him, rather than just another sinner of the world.

Jesus warns us about many false Christs to come, who are not worthy of the name but they claim they are.

And so, false christs, as judged by carnal minded sinners, are them that teach Christians ought be pure and good as Jesus Himself, and not them that teach Christians must also be sinners like the world.

who are not worthy of the name but they claim they are.

And again, them teaching to be worthy of obtaining eternal salvation by obeying Jesus in all things are not worthy of Jesus, but them that preach against obeying Jesus in all things as impossible heresy, are worthy of His name? And yet, these are the same who boast about how unworthy they are to be saved, and how they really deserve hell just like the rest of the sinners of the world, which they both live like and claim to be like?

Well now Christ is God and people are not, they are also not good.

I take you at your word. You are not only not good, you are no good at all.

Especially not at trying to teach the doctrine of Christ from the carnal mind of a sinner.

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Was not Jesus good?

Being and doing good is not the same as claiming to be good, which is a boast. Being a sinner and doing sin are the same thing, and claiming to be a sinner is nothing to boast of, especially not them also claiming the name of Christ.

Look, just repent of your sins as Scripture commands, and you will no longer have to boast of being a sinner for rite of passage with OSAS.

I am not a sinner of OSAS. I refuse to be a sinner of OSAS. I have power and commandment of God in Christ Jesus not to be a sinner of OSAS.

OSAS can make war against being saints in Christ Jesus and not sinners of the world, but them that would remain His elect will not be overcome of them to return to their old sins:

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them.

Who needs physical persecution from enemies of the saints, when we have OSAS trying to do their job for them?

I will not repent, and you can't make me. I am still a saint, no more a sinner.

You people are a hoot.

 

[Scott Downey]

Quoting Scripture to condemn them that go and sin no more according to the Scripture?

In that verse, a failure to do good , like give all your money to the poor and follow Christ and don't do it, that is a sin.

The problem with sinners is they don't know the law of Christ, but only what they want to think is the law. And then of course, they just go ahead and break it anyway, because sinners are not under the law of Christ, but under their own law, which they also break at will.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

This being the case, the problem with instructing sinners in the Scripture of God is hopeless, the Scriptures being spiritual, not carnal.

And so, we have an avowed sinner using a rich young man as the example of Christianity, who asked in addition to keeping all the commandments, what good thing he should also do to be saved, and yet condemn Christians who say keeping all the commandments and doing more good is necessary to obtain eternal salvation.

They really are lawbreakers and dont know it.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So an avowed lawbreaking sinner is judging as lawbreakers them that claim the law ought not to be broken to obtain eternal salivation.

You see how sinners with carnal minds don't know what they are talking about, when it comes to the law of Christ?

The only one without sin was Christ.

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Once again, we have an avowed sinner not only casting stones, but casting them at those who say Christians ought not to be sinners of the world.

To keep your law and not be an ignorant 'real' lawbreaker, all I have to do is to return to my sins and be like you, a normal knowing lawbreaker?

No thanks. I'd rather be ignorant of the sins you say I commit, than to commit the sins you do knowingly, willingly, and unjustifiably.

He is the only one good and perfect (lamb of God without spot or blemish).

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Because as he is, so are we in this world.

Who's pretending to be Christian? Them that are pure as He is in this world according to the commandment of Scripture, or them that say it is impossible to be pure as He is in this world contrary to the Scripture?

I choose the former and not the latter. I'd rather be pure as He is in this world than a sinner of the world, which I had enough of when I purified my heart to be a Christian like Him, rather than just another sinner of the world.

Jesus warns us about many false Christs to come, who are not worthy of the name but they claim they are.

And so, false christs, as judged by carnal minded sinners, are them that teach Christians ought be pure and good as Jesus Himself, and not them that teach Christians must also be sinners like the world.

who are not worthy of the name but they claim they are.

And again, them teaching to be worthy of obtaining eternal salvation by obeying Jesus in all things are not worthy of Jesus, but them that preach against obeying Jesus in all things as impossible heresy, are worthy of His name? And yet, these are the same who boast about how unworthy they are to be saved, and how they really deserve hell just like the rest of the sinners of the world, which they both live like and claim to be like?

Well now Christ is God and people are not, they are also not good.

I take you at your word. You are not only not good, you are no good at all.

Especially not at trying to teach the doctrine of Christ from the carnal mind of a sinner.

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Was not Jesus good?

Being and doing good is not the same as claiming to be good, which is a boast. Being a sinner and doing sin are the same thing, and claiming to be a sinner is nothing to boast of, especially not them also claiming the name of Christ.

Look, just repent of your sins as Scripture commands, and you will no longer have to boast of being a sinner for rite of passage with OSAS.

I am not a sinner of OSAS. I refuse to be a sinner of OSAS. I have power and commandment of God in Christ Jesus not to be a sinner of OSAS.

OSAS can make war against being saints in Christ Jesus and not sinners of the world, but them that would remain His elect will not be overcome of them to return to their old sins:

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them.

Who needs physical persecution from enemies of the saints, when we have OSAS trying to do their job for them?

I will not repent, and you can't make me. I am still a saint, no more a sinner.

You people are a hoot.

Your on ignore now. Bye.
Simply I am following the command of scripture.

Titus 3
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.

10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

 

[Wynona]

We see here how OSAS is all about 'believing' and nothing about obeying.

Plenty of words about believing, and not one word about obeying.

OSAS is salvation by faith alone: DOA.

"I believe I have been gifted with salvation, and so I am saved forever."

OSAS salvation is a gift unobtained in the end.

They believe in all things saved, but obey not in all things commanded.

Eternal salvation is not obtained by faith only, but is only obtained by them which obey Him in all things.

So many many false teachers saying that we don't have to obey God in all things. You hear lukewarmness so much, righteousness becomes abnormal.

It's very simple: if you believe you can't overcome sin then you won't.

God told Cain he must rule over sin. That is what He tells us to do today.

It's a decision to live a one-whole-piece life for God. There is no "me time" vs "God time" in this decision. It's all God's time.

Moment by moment, you defeat each temptation as you believe God will provide a way out.

But if we don't believe God's Word or that we can rule over sin, we become defeated by temptation.

Sin is not this hat that we can put on and off at will as Christians. Sin leads to more sin. That's why we are to cut it out of our lives. We cannot wear an outfit that is only halfway righteous.

People are taking the verses about no one being without sin and running with them.

It's true that we all have past lives of sin if we are not Jesus. The thing is, biblically, we do not have to remain in sin. We each one of us can be redeemed and forgiven and live new lives of righteousness.

 

[atpollard]

People are taking the verses about no one being without sin and running with them.

It's true that we all have past lives of sin if we are not Jesus. The thing is, biblically, we do not have to remain in sin. We each one of us can be redeemed and forgiven and live new lives of righteousness.

Respectfully, can you say that you have been successful in avoiding all sin in the last 12 months?
If not, then how do “the verses about no one being without sin” not apply to you even in the present?

 

[atpollard]

So many many false teachers saying that we don't have to obey God in all things. You hear lukewarmness so much, righteousness becomes abnormal.

I hear people COMPLAINING about other people teaching we don’t have to obey God.
I have never actually heard anyone claim that we don’t have to obey God except an atheist.
Perhaps you could post a link to such a teacher … for my enlightenment.

 

[Wynona]

Respectfully, can you say that you have been successful in avoiding all sin in the last 12 months?
If not, then how do “the verses about no one being without sin” not apply to you even in the present?

That's oddly specific. But what the answer was yes? Would it change your mind?

And why does my sin count change the discussion at all? The side against me says we can't go even a day without sin. But we can, and I have.

I can't say this past year was clean, unfortunately because of issues with lust. But if I told you I don't have those same struggles anymore through God's grace, would you even believe me?

Sin can be so overwhelming at times that we think we can never stop. But do we take God at His Word? Do we believe we can overcome.

I used to believe I could never stop sinning, so I sinned. When I realized Scripture says every sin must go, I started overcoming and now those same sins don't trip me up anymore. Anything is possible with God.

 

[Wynona]

I hear people COMPLAINING about other people teaching we don’t have to obey God.
I have never actually heard anyone claim that we don’t have to obey God except an atheist.
Perhaps you could post a link to such a teacher … for my enlightenment.

Sure. I used to prefer this guy.

Three Free Sins - Key Life

 

[atpollard]

That's oddly specific. But what the answer was yes? Would it change your mind?

And why does my sin count change the discussion at all? The side against me says we can't go even a day without sin. But we can, and I have.

I can't say this past year was clean, unfortunately because of issues with lust. But if I told you I don't have those same struggles anymore through God's grace, would you even believe me?

Sin can be so overwhelming at times that we think we can never stop. But do we take God at His Word? Do we believe we can overcome.

I used to believe I could never stop sinning, so I sinned. When I realized Scripture says every sin must go, I started overcoming and now those same sins don't trip me up anymore. Anything is possible with God.

Actually, the questions were more “rhetorical”. Their purpose was like the guard rails on a mountain road that keep you from driving off a cliff. You already made it clear that you do not believe we should “sin more that grace may increase”. They were just intended to establish that you were not someone that had driven of the cliff of “I have already reached sinless perfection and never need to repent of anything”.

You owe ME nothing. You are not my servant. Those questions were just intended for you.
(For the record, I, too, sin and I, too, sin far less than I used to … so the Holy Spirit is doing something.)

 

[atpollard]

Sin can be so overwhelming at times that we think we can never stop. But do we take God at His Word? Do we believe we can overcome.

I used to believe I could never stop sinning, so I sinned. When I realized Scripture says every sin must go, I started overcoming and now those same sins don't trip me up anymore. Anything is possible with God.

I agree.
“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”
― Henry Ford

 

[atpollard]

Sure. I used to prefer this guy.

Three Free Sins - Key Life

Meh.
His point is that God does not hate you … not that we should be sinning all the time.

Both “God does not hate you, God loves you” and “Knock it off and start living to please God” are messages worth knowing. That’s why Ephesians 2:4 starts out with “But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us,” and Ephesians 2:10 closes with “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.”

 

[Wynona]

Meh.
His point is that God does not hate you … not that we should be sinning all the time.

Both “God does not hate you, God loves you” and “Knock it off and start living to please God” are messages worth knowing. That’s why Ephesians 2:4 starts out with “But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love that he had for us,” and Ephesians 2:10 closes with “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.”

Ill concede that most false teaching is not in your face in saying the exact words, "You don't have to obey God."

They are going to try to make that idea more palatable with how they word it.

 

[atpollard]

@Wynona
Sorry, I am derailing my own topic.
A quick “on topic” question if I may:

Is there a risk that God will drop you from His grasp before you finish your race?
Or
Can you jump from the hand of God?

Whichever way you prefer to think of finishing/not finishing “the race”.
(Assurance of grace from our first step as a baby Christian until we finish the race glorified in heaven - the P in TULIP.)

 

[Wynona]

Actually, the questions were more “rhetorical”. Their purpose was like the guard rails on a mountain road that keep you from driving off a cliff. You already made it clear that you do not believe we should “sin more that grace may increase”. They were just intended to establish that you were not someone that had driven of the cliff of “I have already reached sinless perfection and never need to repent of anything”.

You owe ME nothing. You are not my servant. Those questions were just intended for you.
(For the record, I, too, sin and I, too, sin far less than I used to … so the Holy Spirit is doing something.)

At first I was thinking why a rhetorical question? But I get it. I have two myself.

If you could take a pill and never sin again, would you?

No more lust, greed, or pride. Just righteousness.

I have another one:

If you could take a pill that would ensure your place in heaven without having to change anything about yourself, would you?

I might to be honest. I just don't think thats how it works.

 

[atpollard]

If you could take a pill that would ensure your place in heaven without having to change anything about yourself, would you?

I like this one better, because it is easier for me to answer.

HYPOTHETICALLY, if the Sadducees had been correct (life ends at the grave and there is no afterlife), I would STILL choose to worship and serve God in this life … even despised as the first Christians were. Coming from the utter darkness and meaninglessness of gangs and crime and ‘nihilism’, for me, only God gives ANYTHING meaning.

So no, I wanted God to literally change EVERYTHING about me because my plan was seriously “Not Working”. Praise God, He did!

 

[Wynona]

@Wynona
Sorry, I am derailing my own topic.
A quick “on topic” question if I may:

Is there a risk that God will drop you from His grasp before you finish your race?
Or
Can you jump from the hand of God?

Whichever way you prefer to think of finishing/not finishing “the race”.
(Assurance of grace from our first step as a baby Christian until we finish the race glorified in heaven - the P in TULIP.)

I don't think TULIP is entirely biblical. I don't think God's grace is "irresistable" and I don't think saints always persevere to the end.

We can't jump from God's hand in that were ever not in His hands. But we always can choose whether to serve Him or not and we can lose our salvation.

See 1 Timothy 4:1, Hebrews 3:12-15,
2 Peter 2:20-22 for just a few of the verses that describe salvation as conditional. It's conditioned on continuing in faith.

 

[atpollard]

If you could take a pill and never sin again, would you?

You should post your two questions to a new topic of their own … I would love to see the results!

Once upon a time, probably.
Now I think of the words of King David (who I hear was a man after God’s heart) where he said “I will make no offering that costs me nothing.”
That feels like an offering (our life) to God that would cost us nothing.
There is an old quote: “what you have/are is God’s gift to you; what you do with it is your gift to God”

Our struggles are our gift to God.
Like Job. Satan took away every reason Job had to praise God … and Job still praised God. How often do we get an opportunity to say or do something for God that is nothing more than a “thank you” for what He has done? When we struggle against our sin, it is still nothing more than God deserves, but it is at least SOMETHING that we have done … we struggled (and God overcame).

I don’t think I would prefer to not even have those struggles to offer to God.

 

[robert derrick]

Respectfully, can you say that you have been successful in avoiding all sin in the last 12 months?
If not, then how do “the verses about no one being without sin” not apply to you even in the present?

Ok, ok. Both she and I will freely acknowledge being disobedient and ungodly depraved sinners just like you.

Happy now?

 

[robert derrick]

You should post your two questions to a new topic of their own … I would love to see the results!

Once upon a time, probably.
Now I think of the words of King David (who I hear was a man after God’s heart) where he said “I will make no offering that costs me nothing.”
That feels like an offering (our life) to God that would cost us nothing.
There is an old quote: “what you have/are is God’s gift to you; what you do with it is your gift to God”

Our struggles are our gift to God.

Like Job. Satan took away every reason Job had to praise God … and Job still praised God. How often do we get an opportunity to say or do something for God that is nothing more than a “thank you” for what He has done? When we struggle against our sin, it is still nothing more than God deserves, but it is at least SOMETHING that we have done … we struggled (and God overcame).

I don’t think I would prefer to not even have those struggles to offer to God.

Job maintained his righteousness with God, despite the sufferings. His 'friends' maintained his sin against God causing his sufferings.

You have nothing to do with Job, and everything to do with the fault-finders.

When we struggle against our sin

Struggling in sin is not struggling against sin, it's being defeated by it.

Our struggles are our gift to God.

Our gift to God? He needs a gift from us? Where in Scripture do we give gifts to God? Our sacrifice is not our gift to Him, it our necessity for our soul's sake. His sacrifice is His gift to us, for the opportunity to offer up a sacrifice of our souls to Him.

So Jesus paid for our sins in His blood by learning obedience to the cross, and the best OSAS is 'struggling' with it some before caving.

That's pretty pathetic.

but it is at least SOMETHING that we have done.

Well, yeah, sure. So that's the only difference between depraved sinners of the world and depraved sinners of OSAS: OSAS at least 'struggles' before giving in.

we struggled (and God overcame).

??? It is so strange to hear the carnal mind trying to talk about Scripture and doctrine of Christ.

We struggled and caved, but God overcame for us? What? He overcomes judging us for our sins, when we don't overcome sins for our own soul's sake??

I don’t think I would prefer to not even have those struggles to offer to God.

I know He would prefer you didn't offer Him your blessings of pre-caving 'struggles' at all. Just go ahead and repenting would be much more pleasing to Him.

OSAS is truly down for the struggle, and then down even lower for the defeat.