Sabbath Issues

[Grailhunter]

Thank goodness you arrived to straighten us out.

Have you had your 3 pots of coffee and your beer today?

No beer.....yet.
And I am still working on my first pot of coffee.

 

[strobe]

I'm not going to try to change your mind because I won't, so I am just curious what do you believe determines sin?

Like are there any other commandments aside from the Sabbath that you don't keep? If so, why?

It's a very interesting question and one I have not got a perfectly thought out answer to. I would say off the top of my head that it is setting oneself up as God. I am pretty sure that it is not as simple as a bad thought or even action that could be decribed as trespass or disobedience.
I think I will "plead the fifth" as you say in America regarding the other question.

 

[GEN2REV]

No beer.....yet.
And I am still working on my first pot of coffee.

I'm jealous.

I do miss it.

 

[DuckieLady]

It's a very interesting question and one I have not got a perfectly thought out answer to. I would say off the top of my head that it is setting onesself up as God. I am pretty sure that it is not as simple as a bad thought or even action that could be decribed as trespass or disobedience.
I think I will "plead the fifth" as you say in America regarding the other question.

Lol understood!

I think for myself I would say I know based off of what both Jesus and Paul and others. told us to do.

Whereas Paul says how he knew in Romans 7:7, and he also said to follow his example because he followed the example Christ had given him.

But if you don't agree with what he said, I guess for me even when I thought differently, it would be sort of been "hanging in the air."

I wouldn't have been able to answer that question myself until... Maybe today, actually.

I wouldn't have been able to spot the origin.

 

[strobe]

Here's another interesting thing - circumcision! (Although it pains me somewhat to bring it up)
It had to be done on the eighth day. Some people say this is to do with vitamin levels in the blood, I think that is rubbish and it is to do with the millennial day. It is a foreshadow of the purity we will have in our hearts when we are in the image of God and He has written His laws on our hearts.
Deuteronomy 10:16 and 30:6
Romans 2:29
Colossians 2:11
etc
It's also in the book of Jubilees ch1 v23 if anyone is interested in that.
And the Lord said unto Moses: 'I know their contrariness and their thoughts and their stiffneckedness, and they will not be obedient till they confess their own sin and the sin of their fathers. And after this they will turn to Me in all uprightness and with all (their) heart and with all (their) soul, and I will circumcise the foreskin of their heart and the foreskin of the heart of their seed, and I will create in them a holy spirit, and I will cleanse them so that they shall not turn away from Me from that day unto eternity. And their souls will cleave to Me and to all My commandments, and they will fulfil My commandments, and I will be their Father and they shall be My children.

 

[farouk]

Should pain us all to think about

For Paul, the obligation of circumcision was a retreat to law-keeping for salvation.

This is why his writings stress the sufficiency of faith in the Person and work of Christ.

 

[quietthinker]

I'm pretty sure. Why does that day not have an evening and morning like the other days?

the words 'blessed and sanctified it...' what does it mean?

"And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."
Genesis 2:2-3

does it mean, he entered its space?.....and the word 'rested'.....does it mean he put his head on a pillow?
The day after A&E were created didn't God spend the day with them....yes, he entered its space for fellowship.
Did he ever remove the blessing or unhallow it? Did he ever shift the time zone and bless and hallow (sanctify) another?

 

[strobe]

the words 'blessed and sanctified it...' what does it mean?

does it mean, he entered its space?.....and the word 'rested'.....does it mean he put his head on a pillow?
The day after A&E were created didn't God spend the day with them....yes, he entered its space for fellowship.
Did he ever remove the blessing or unhallow it? Did he ever shift the time zone and bless and hallow (sanctify) another?

This post has made me think more than any other so far. Thank you!

 

[Grailhunter]

So you're 52, you profess to be a Christian, you adamantly "embrace" evolution and science and claim they seamlessly coincide with scripture, you ask a few questions in this thread pertaining to the Bible - yet you don't care to discuss one bit of it. Sounds like a modern Christian to me. You did it! Congrats.

Beliefs.....Truths.....Facts
Bible only Fundamentalism.....King James Only.....Beliefs
Beliefs are a good thing....Faith is a Good thing....no crime or sin to believe that the world is flat and disease is due to demons.
If that is what floats your boat.....what is wrong with that? An individuals right to believe anything they want.

And as long as they do not hurt people with their beliefs or lead people to hell, I say let them believe anything they want.

Of course we are here to discuss this and if some one says I believe this or that and it is in the Bible....when it is not....I will be happy to debate them. If you are going to limit your knowledge of Christianity to the first 65 years don't you think it would be good to understand the Bible only.....

But that is not what has happened. We have 30,000 Protestant denominations that have tried to understand the Bible and usually they fail. And no one has failed more than the Catholics. There are two primary ways to fail the Bible....not understand it and not apply Christianity correctly....in other words they did not learn anything from reading the Bible.

Unless you live in a cave and ride your horse bare back you embrace science....
There are Christians that can sustain the belief that science is all bunk! Yet the same mind that would teach this rubbish in Sunday school, when faced with a heart attack, will not drop to his knees and pray until it goes away, he will use that little witchy device that can call anyone in the world, and he will use it to call the technology wagon, otherwise called the ambulance. When it arrives he is not going to instruct the driver to take him to the nearest church, he will want to go to the nearest place of science, the hospital. Then when he gets to the hospital, he is not looking for a preacher, he is hoping that a man of medical science is there, and he hopes that the man believes in science, because if he is one of his Sunday school students, and all he does is pull out a Bible and reads scriptures to him for the next couple hours......he is going to die! Reality trumps fantasy, but he will go back to church preaching that science is all bunk! This man is not alone, most Christians know that science is real even though they are taught and tell others that science is bunk!

But when there is a fire, they pull out one the newest items of scientific creations, the cell phone and they will call the fire department. Christians are taught that science is bunk! But when they turn on their TV, they are confident they will see a signal transmitted by a satellite orbiting at thousands of miles above the Earth. They see all these rockets blast off that carry men to the moon and construct space stations in orbit and set satellites in space.....oblivious to reality. And when they turn that TV on they do not consider where that signal comes from.

The funny is that there are a lot of churches that know where that signal comes from and deploy technology all through their church....and then of course you have TV ministries. They understand that science works.

Science works and is in the real world. God is real and exists in the real world. Any religion that denies reality is teaching lies or at least fantasies! This is the Christian Matrix, that conditions the mind to live in reality, but believe in fantasy. Even though they are taught that sex is evil, dirty, nasty, and sinful, they are going to get naked, have sex, and have children anyway. They are going to profess the fantasy to one another and use it as a religion but deep down they know it is not true.

Now older people juggle this stuff pretty good....A lot selectively deny science....They know their new Ford Pick up has 32 processors in it and can talk to a satellite 20,000 miles away, dinosaur bones are fake. But all this is, is selectively denying reality.

To sustain this belief they have to have a negative view toward education and intelligence. And of course historically that has been an issue with Christianity....

My concern is with the youth....all this stuff....the world is flat and there is no evolution....no dinosaours.....no cavemen....and world has only been around for a few thousand years .....it sounds real primitives real backwards to a lot of young people. They are expecting young people to buy into this stuff and a lot of them are not.....and it is this stuff that takes away from the credibility of the Bible as a whole for them.

 

[Grailhunter]

All the more reason to observe it. It is a wonderful gift from God.

Most Christians never discover how amazing it is because they never attempt to observe it.

It is one of the greatest threats to the enemy and he has confused, and stigmatized, the concept immensely.

Those who begin to observe it sincerely, are showered with blessings they never imagined possible.

It is one of the most loving things you can do for God. In its observance, you are honoring God and remembering some of the most important things He has ever done.

ETA: It is also the one and ONLY day God ever blessed and sanctified. To say it is a very special day is a massive understatement. Especially in God's eyes.

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath.
You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because their beliefs are not compatible.
Christ warned about this.
I know there are those that try to mix Judaism and Christian and Old and New Testaments....Old and New Covenants. Bad stuff. There is no suggestion in the Bible that trying to be in both covenants is a good thing or even a possibility.

 

[Grailhunter]

So many are led to believe His Commands are burdensome and a Tyrannical test of our devotion, etc., but the truth is that every Commandment is given for our own betterment and well being.

Very few people understand the burden of the 613 Mosaic Laws....most do not know the Laws about the Laws. If you look to the Law to obey it, if you obey one Law, you have to obey all the Laws or you are in violation of all the Laws. And the Laws never were designed to provide a salvation or a path to heaven.....and if you think it does....you are severed from Christ and have fallen from grace.

 

[strobe]

Lol understood!

I think for myself I would say I know based off of what both Jesus and Paul and others. told us to do.

Whereas Paul says how he knew in Romans 7:7, and he also said to follow his example because he followed the example Christ had given him.

But if you don't agree with what he said, I guess for me even when I thought differently, it would be sort of been "hanging in the air."

I wouldn't have been able to answer that question myself until... Maybe today, actually.

I wouldn't have been able to spot the origin.

Don't keep me hanging then! What is your answer?

 

[strobe]

If you are a Jew, you should observe the Sabbath.
You cannot be both Jewish and Christian because their beliefs are not compatible.

I don't see how you can say this. Jesus was Jewish, Paul and all the apostles were Jewish and there are thousands, if not millions, of Jewish Christians to this day. If you're Jewish and become a Christian, you don't give up your Jewishness any more than if you're Britsh, American or Australian.

 

[DuckieLady]

Don't keep me hanging then! What is your answer?

Just that:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet:

We know from what God spoken to Moses.

Let me show you one of the most interesting and ignored verses from Jesus Christ himself:

Matthew 5:17-20

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't see how you can say this. Jesus was Jewish, Paul and all the apostles were Jewish and there are thousands, if not millions, of Jewish Christians to this day. If you're Jewish and become a Christian, you don't give up your Jewishness any more than if you're Britsh, American or Australian.

You do not know me well. So I will humor you....for a bit.
So Jewish Christians....Ahhh! You think that is a real thing?
We can get back to some of the things you just said here.....but first please describe how does a person practice the religion of Jewish-Christians.
And then from there we will have a lot of fun.

 

[strobe]

You do not know me well. So I will humor you....for a bit.
So Jewish Christians....Ahhh! You think that is a real thing?
We can get back to some of the things you just said here.....but first please describe how does a person practice the religion of Jewish-Christians.
And then from there we will have a lot of fun.

Only in the same way as there is no religion of British Christian. Jewish is closest to a nationality. I think you mean Judaism which is a religion.

 

[Grailhunter]

Only in the same way as there is no religion of British Christian. Jewish is closest to a nationality. I think you mean Judaism which is a religion.

Jewish-Christians

Paul and all the apostles were Jewish and there are thousands, if not millions, of Jewish Christians to this day.

So these thousands of "Jewish Christians" what do they believe and how do they practice their religion?

If you're Jewish and become a Christian, you don't give up your Jewishness any more than if you're Britsh, American or Australian.

Let's peel back the skin on this onion....What is Jewishness? How does it apply to a religion? How is it compatible to Christianity?

 

[strobe]

Jewish-Christians

So these thousands of "Jewish Christians" what do they believe and how do they practice their religion?



Let's peel back the skin on this onion....What is Jewishness? How does it apply to a religion? How is it compatible to Christianity?

You tell me as you seem to know.

 

[Brakelite]

@FluffyYellowDuck Sinai referring to law and law-keeping. There is plenty of Scripture to show we are under grace, not law; and Hebrews gloriously demonstrates that fullness of revelation in Christ supersedes types and shadows in the OT.

The rest principle - from Genesis - which is Creational, does endure for our benefit.

Law keeping. Mmmm. God forbid that Christians should consider keeping laws.

 

[Grailhunter]

You tell me as you seem to know.

Modern Jewish-Christians....I believe it is a misnomer.
So my questions are about if you believe it exists? And if so....how? What does it look like in motion?