Can Someone Please Define What a Christian is?

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michaelvpardo

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God counts men to have done the right thing (righteous) when they trust Him and what He has said. Then, the scriptures are for training in what is right in Gods eyes. But just because we know what is right does not mean we can always do what is right. Ex: we know God says to have anger in our heart is to have already murdered. We can know this and agree with this, and yet see we cannot stop doing the murder in our heart. This is meant to make us hunger and thirst for true righteousness on the inside of our cup so that we cry out to God to make us clean. We want to follow Him but find we can’t because we do what we don’t want to do. He does not mean to leave us in that hungering forever and Paul himself did not teach that either.

There is having a deposit and being led by the Spirit and then there is walking in the Spirit. And Paul tells us, walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of your flesh. We are meant to trust Him for that also.
The only real responsibility of "believers " is to believe the Lord and Jesus qualified this in equating belief to obedience to His teaching. However, Jesus was preaching primarily to Jews under the law, not to the Gentiles. Most of the teaching relevant to the Church comes to us from Paul and is not really different in respect to the doctrines of grace, but assumes that our nature has been altered by His presence within us, and our deliverance from the bondage of sin manifested by the law. The law incites sin within our old nature, the nature according to the flesh, but His Spirit administers grace.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Romans 7:7-11
 

stunnedbygrace

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The only real responsibility of "believers " is to believe the Lord and Jesus qualified this in equating belief to obedience to His teaching. However, Jesus was preaching primarily to Jews under the law, not to the Gentiles. Most of the teaching relevant to the Church comes to us from Paul and is not really different in respect to the doctrines of grace, but assumes that our nature has been altered by His presence within us, and our deliverance from the bondage of sin manifested by the law. The law incites sin within our old nature, the nature according to the flesh, but His Spirit administers grace.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Romans 7:7-11

Learning the obedience of trust leads to good, good things!
 

michaelvpardo

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I will simplify it...

A Christian obeys Acts 2:38 to be saved the way the 3000 were at Pentecost and walks in the Spirit afterwards.
Walking in the Spirit is a choice that can only be made by those who have received Him. Since all Christians experience the discipline of God, clearly none walk in complete obedience. There would be no admonition by Paul to follow the Spirit if our natural inclinations didn't persist even after receiving Him. If you qualify "Christianity " by obedience, there are no Christians, nor reason for self examination and repentance. God disciplines His children, because children require discipline, being naturally inclined to do their own will.
 

Cooper

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Yes, but having received Him, the responsibility is actually His, not ours.

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Phillipians 2:12-13
I'm glad about that, I feel far less worried now I can cast my cares upon Him. Thank you for reminding me. :)
.
 

michaelvpardo

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Yes....and would we know if the things we believe are in error?
Will God correct us from believing the wrong things?

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12....(ESV)
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

That is sobering.......We may get all the way to the judgment and be confident in our beliefs and then have all our hopes dashed with the rejection of the one we call our “Lord”. (Matthew 7:21-23) How could he say “I never knew you”?....and call us “workers of lawlessness”?

Now is the time to evaluate all that we have been taught to believe....the separation of the “sheep from the goats” is not far away......so who are we? o_O God knows.....
He actually corrects our doctrine on a daily basis if we've received Him and have fellowship with Him in His Word.
If your doctrine has never changed, you probably don't know Him at all.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27
 

Aunty Jane

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While i appreciate your thoughtful argument, it runs contrary to the teaching of the apostles in that one doesn't have to physically die in order to be born of His Spirit (if I'm understanding what you've posted.)
One does not have to die in order to receive the holy spirit....but being "born again" requires a death and resurrection in a new body....exactly like Jesus. (1 Peter 3:18)

It also runs contrary to my experience and that of all the saints that I've known, whose lives were changed in that moment of time when they believed and recieved the "earnest" of the Holy Spirit.
The anointing with God's spirit is his choosing, so only those so anointed can know if the "token" they received is genuine....time will tell. The "saints" (those with "the heavenly calling". Hebrews 3:1) will die and be resurrected to heaven to take up their assignments. These, Jesus said, will be resurrected "first".....to be "kings and priests" with Christ for their earthly subjects. (Revelation 20:6, Revelation 21:2-4) Not all Christians are "saints" because not all Christians will go to heaven. If God had wanted us there he would have created us there. This is not a training ground for heaven.....earth was meant to be our permanent home.

While a person could be self deceived by their experience, no such deception could empower someone to good works and sign gifts such as healing, shutting the mouths of unclean spirits, prophetic uttering, etc., or to the fellowship of His Spirit in the word.
That is not what the apostle Paul said.....
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12...
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

Deception does not appear to be deception if the person believes it.....satan is the master deceiver....he has never changed his tactics. He knows how well the emotional tug works.

It's a good thing to study scripture, church history, doctrinal dissertations and such, but there is nothing more blessed than to be taught by God through the fellowship of His word and to know Him as your trusted friend.
I agree....as long as we know who are the ones to trust....who are our teachers? We all need them as God has provided them right down through history.....(Hebrews 13:17)
Who is your teacher? Who is "keeping watch over your soul"?
 

michaelvpardo

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One does not have to die in order to receive the holy spirit....but being "born again" requires a death and resurrection in a new body....exactly like Jesus. (1 Peter 3:18)


The anointing with God's spirit is his choosing, so only those so anointed can know if the "token" they received is genuine....time will tell. The "saints" (those with "the heavenly calling". Hebrews 3:1) will die and be resurrected to heaven to take up their assignments. These, Jesus said, will be resurrected "first".....to be "kings and priests" with Christ for their earthly subjects. (Revelation 20:6, Revelation 21:2-4) Not all Christians are "saints" because not all Christians will go to heaven. If God had wanted us there he would have created us there. This is not a training ground for heaven.....earth was meant to be our permanent home.


That is not what the apostle Paul said.....
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12...
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."

Deception does not appear to be deception if the person believes it.....satan is the master deceiver....he has never changed his tactics. He knows how well the emotional tug works.


I agree....as long as we know who are the ones to trust....who are our teachers? We all need them as God has provided them right down through history.....(Hebrews 13:17)
Who is your teacher? Who is "keeping watch over your soul"?
You can recieve the teacher, also called the witness, for the asking by belief in the Son of God, His death and Resurrection, but your prayer has to be in belief without doubting. When that happens you are born again (no physical death required). However, I've heard this cultic teaching from Roman Catholics who never believed and recieved this basic truth, though I've met Catholics who were both born again and believing. That church holds being born again as a carrot and excommunication as the stick, something in common with the cults, but you can only reach such a misunderstanding by rejecting the plain teaching of scripture.
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” John 3 :5-8
There's nothing about physical death in this passage nor any other passage in scripture regarding new life in Christ.

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, Colossians 2:13
"Made alive together with Him" is synonymous with being born again. It does not refer to physical death, but spiritual birth.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
This is another passage describing the new birth. Not a physical death, but a new life born of a new spirit.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new 2 Corinthians 5:17
It isn't possible to be a "new creation" without being born again, and this passage is present tense, not future tense, referring to living people, saints, born again believers in Christ.

I don't know who taught you that physical death and resurrection was the means of being born again, but you were taught a lie that contradicts scripture and the experience of every born again believer.
By the way, 1 Peter 3 :18 has nothing to do with being born again, but describes the deliverance of souls from before the flood. Context is everything in understanding scripture.
 
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Truther

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Walking in the Spirit is a choice that can only be made by those who have received Him. Since all Christians experience the discipline of God, clearly none walk in complete obedience. There would be no admonition by Paul to follow the Spirit if our natural inclinations didn't persist even after receiving Him. If you qualify "Christianity " by obedience, there are no Christians, nor reason for self examination and repentance. God disciplines His children, because children require discipline, being naturally inclined to do their own will.
Yes, God disciplines His children to get them to walk in the Spirit. His children are first qualified by obeying Acts 2:38 to be His children. Think of it as kind of an initiation rite into the body of Christ.
 

Truther

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did you have tongues of fire resting on you?
That was unique to the first outpouring as a sign that the promise has come(the sound of a rushing mighty wind also).

I speak in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance as they did, though.

I obeyed Acts 2:38 to qualify for the remission of my sins as they did, also.

I was surrounded by a white light like Paul was as my first Holy Ghost experience happened.

If God wants to also include visible cloven tongues to this supernatural experience of the Holy Ghost baptism, He will.
 
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bbyrd009

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I think so. God speaks to the heart in whatever which way according to the circumstance. I'm certain when Paul got knocked of his donkey and had three days to think about his stuff in blindness, the whole person was involved...the cerebral, the emotional and very clearly the physical.
otoh i wonder what is the difference in emotions and spirit? Where is the line there?
 

michaelvpardo

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Yes, God disciplines His children to get them to walk in the Spirit. His children are first qualified by obeying Acts 2:38 to be His children. Think of it as kind of an initiation rite into the body of Christ.
Do you understand that Acts 2:38 actually describes a large group of Jewish believers being born again of God?
I'm only asking because there are some who don't understand that recieving the Holy Spirit is the same as being born again.
 

michaelvpardo

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otoh i wonder what is the difference in emotions and spirit? Where is the line there?
Spirit is invisible, emotion can be "displayed". Spirit is eternal, an "emination " or extension of God (the Father of all spirits). Emotion is the result of biochemical responses to external stimuli or internal imaginings and is entirely transitory. There's very little comparison, but the usage of "spirit" in the English language lends itself to confusion in that it has multiple meanings and is used to describe things which are purely emotional rather than spiritual in nature.
When we say that someone's response to something or that their attitude is "spirited" we're usually referring to a positive emotional response, not something spiritual in the supernatural sense.
The usage problem is similar to our language problem with "agape ". The word is usually translated as "love", but refers to action more than emotion. Older translations often translated agape as charity, which is more accurate than "love" but less accurate in describing the character of God (which could be described in English as benevolence.)
 

Truther

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Do you understand that Acts 2:38 actually describes a large group of Jewish believers being born again of God?
I'm only asking because there are some who don't understand that recieving the Holy Spirit is the same as being born again.
Yes, per Acts 2:38, we have both water AND Spirit birth combined.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE remission of sins and Spirit baptism to enable the sin free saint to walk in the Spirit.
 
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quietthinker

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otoh i wonder what is the difference in emotions and spirit? Where is the line there?
I liken it to a love affair where parties walk in sync....the spirit is there, ie objectives are mutual and the feeling of unity or comfort follows from what is shared.
 
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