Once you join a church you will be accountable...

[Raccoon1010]

I wanted to start a discussion to explore where the bible says that once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God. I've noticed a few churches that say this. And I'm sure it causes Godly fear for the members not to leave:

Catholic
Mormon

Are there any others? Please let me know.

But please quote scriptural evidence to support these ideas as this is the bible study forum.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I wanted to tag a few members to get their perspective if they feel like providing it:

@theefaith
@GodsGrace
@Marymog
@Jane_Doe22

 

[Lambano]

Part of the Methodist membership vows are to uphold your local church with your prayers, your presence, your gifts, and your services. This is pretty generic. I can't cite specific scriptures (or maybe I'm too lazy to look them up; cut me some slack, I'm still on my first cup of coffee), but I don't doubt Jesus will hold us accountable for how we kept our promises in this life.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Part of the Methodist membership vows are to uphold your local church with your prayers, your presence, your gifts, and your services. This is pretty generic. I can't cite specific scriptures (or maybe I'm too lazy to look them up; cut me some slack, I'm still on my first cup of coffee), but I don't doubt Jesus will hold us accountable for how we kept our promises in this life.

Thanks for your input. Yes I'm interested in studying this idea. I'm looking forward to learning more about it.

 

[Lambano]

BTW, I don't see it as much here, but on a previous forum, many members came forward with horror stories of how church leadership used accountability as a tool (maybe "weapon" is a more accurate term) to control and lord over the membership. Especially regarding tithing. May God reward them according to their works.

 

[Raccoon1010]

BTW, I don't see it as much here, but on a previous forum, many members came forward with horror stories of how church leadership used accountability as a tool (maybe "weapon" is a more accurate term) to control and lord over the membership. Especially regarding tithing. May God reward them according to their works.

Yes that's one of my concerns. And they can't all claim authority to promote lordship over a congregation. And can anyone claim lordship over other people? Not if you believe in the American dream of freedom of religion.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I wanted to start a discussion to explore where the bible says that once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God. I've noticed a few churches that say this. And I'm sure it causes Godly fear for the members not to leave:

Catholic
Mormon

Are there any others? Please let me know.

But please quote scriptural evidence to support these ideas as this is the bible study forum.

You become accountable by capability Devin. I started to say by age, but some never become accountable as they are not capable. A person is basically judged by his capability as seen by the parable of the talents. Some are very capable, others are not. Church membership has nothing to do with salvation, rather is is one's own dedication and living up to the requirements under the law of the Christ as best we can. The fact is one can be a member of the church, and yet not be a true servant of God, perhaps you know some that clearly do not practice what they preach.

 

[Raccoon1010]

You become accountable by capability Devin. I started to say by age, but some never become accountable as they are not capable. A person is basically judged by his capability as seen by the parable of the talents. Some are very capable, others are not. Church membership has nothing to do with salvation, rather is is one's own dedication and living up to the requirements under the law of the Christ as best we can. The fact is one can be a member of the church, and yet not be a true servant of God, perhaps you know some that clearly do not practice what they preach.

Yes I understand what you are saying. I know people that don't have the mental capacity to do the Lords work. And I don't think they will be judged harshly.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You become accountable by capability

Yes. To whoever God gives more, more will be required.

 

[farouk]

BTW, I don't see it as much here, but on a previous forum, many members came forward with horror stories of how church leadership used accountability as a tool (maybe "weapon" is a more accurate term) to control and lord over the membership. Especially regarding tithing. May God reward them according to their works.

@Lambano Strictly speaking, tithes relate to the Levites to whom they were supposed to be given. If ppl now want to give more than a tenth, then more power to them, but in giving in the NT liberty rules, not law. Hebrews 7.12 makes it clear than the Levitical priesthood's surpassing has brought a change in the law.

One can also see how some church leaderships feel how they have a vested interest in blurring the distinction between the church and Israel.

 

[Lambano]

@Lambano Strictly speaking, tithes relate to the Levites to whom they were supposed to be given. If ppl now want to give more than a tenth, then more power to them, but in giving in the NT liberty rules, not law. Hebrews 7.12 makes it clear than the Levitical priesthood's surpassing has brought a change in the law.

One can also see how some church leaderships feel how they have a vested interest in blurring the distinction between the church and Israel.

Somewhere out there is a user who went by the name "Radio Roswell" on the other forum who would violently agree with you. With a good rant.

 

[Windmill Charge]

once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God

What a strange unbiblical idea. To take vows to join a church!
Where does the bible say that?

I understand that on joining a church one agrees to there peculiarities and customs, also as a church member one is accountable to the leadership, but vows/promises no.

 

[GodsGrace]

I wanted to start a discussion to explore where the bible says that once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God. I've noticed a few churches that say this. And I'm sure it causes Godly fear for the members not to leave:

Catholic
Mormon

Are there any others? Please let me know.

But please quote scriptural evidence to support these ideas as this is the bible study forum.

Hi Devin,
I don't know anywhere in the N.T. that states we are to take a vow and follow church rules.
In the books of Corinthians 1 and 2 Paul does deal with a church that defellowshipped a member for having relations with his
stepmother....but then Paul told that church to take him back in so that he wouldn't be lost if he repented.

However, this is a law of God,,,not a law of any church.

I can think of when Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT COMES OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.
Matthew 4:4
Out of the mouth of God...not out of the rules of a church.

For now, I'll say that IF the rules of the church follow the rules of God's Law (the Law of Grace) then we'll be obliged to keep them.
If they do NOT follow a Law of God, then we are not obligated.

My Catholic friends will not agree with this because if one wants to be a member of the Catholic Church they MUST agree to all the doctrine.
Of course, there is a way around this. I attend a Catholic Church, priests know my position on some doctrine (I don't believe purgatory exists) and they have no problem with it because I'm able to give them good reasons and they just accept it.

We'll see what others have to say.
Where's @Marymog when you need her?!
:)

I also would like to ask that the Catholic Church not be bunched up with what we would call a cult.
The Mormon church is not accepted as being Christian.
The Catholic Church is a Christian Church, even though we may not agree with all the doctrine.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I wanted to start a discussion to explore where the bible says that once you join a church and take their vows you will be held accountable by God. I've noticed a few churches that say this. And I'm sure it causes Godly fear for the members not to leave:

Catholic
Mormon

Are there any others? Please let me know.

But please quote scriptural evidence to support these ideas as this is the bible study forum.

Hi Devin,
I don't know anywhere in the N.T. that states we are to take a vow and follow church rules.
In the books of Corinthians 1 and 2 Paul does deal with a church that defellowshipped a member for having relations with his
stepmother....but then Paul told that church to take him back in so that he wouldn't be lost if he repented.

However, this is a law of God,,,not a law of any church.

I can think of when Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT COMES OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.
Matthew 4:4
Out of the mouth of God...not out of the rules of a church.

For now, I'll say that IF the rules of the church follow the rules of God's Law (the Law of Grace) then we'll be obliged to keep them.
If they do NOT follow a Law of God, then we are not obligated.

My Catholic friends will not agree with this because if one wants to be a member of the Catholic Church they MUST agree to all the doctrine.
Of course, there is a way around this. I attend a Catholic Church, priests know my position on some doctrine (I don't believe purgatory exists) and they have no problem with it because I'm able to give them good reasons and they just accept it.

We'll see what others have to say.
Where's @Marymog when you need her?!
:)

I also would like to ask that the Catholic Church not be bunched up with what we would call a cult.
The Mormon church is not accepted as being Christian.
The Catholic Church is a Christian Church, even though we may not agree with all the doctrine.

What is means to join a church varied HUGELY across Christiandom, that it’s not really comparable.

For example, Catholic Christians approach joining the church as a person being baptized, usually as an infant. Like a branding, it can never be undone, even if the person never has any faith in Christ and lives their life as a unrepentant and sinful atheist. A believer is supposed to just accept official docterine.

For LDS Christians (nicknamed “Mormons”), a person’s relationship with Christ — that faith— is the first and most thing. A believer can choose to further commit to that relationship by being baptized/ joining the church, etc. But faith is the most important. An individual is supposed to seek revelation from God directly for themselves too, in addition to the guidance Church leaders provide. You can choose to renounce your faith and no longer be a member.

For a third example, a Baptist Christian group I know “being a member” is entirely about having voting rights at local church meeting for things like the budget. Yes, you must ratify thier doctrinal statements, as well as attend with x frequency, been around for y number of years, etc. And if you don’t show up after a while they kick you off the membership rolls.

Etc.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes I understand what you are saying. I know people that don't have the mental capacity to do the Lords work. And I don't think they will be judged harshly.

If they were that would simply make God unjust, may that never be so. God is Love.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And can anyone claim lordship over other people?

Not in the church...

"2Be shepherds of God’s flock that is among you, watching over themb not out of compulsion, but because it is God’s will;c not out of greed, but out of eagerness; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:2-3​

 

[Raccoon1010]

Not in the church...

"2Be shepherds of God’s flock that is among you, watching over themb not out of compulsion, but because it is God’s will;c not out of greed, but out of eagerness; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." 1 Peter 5:2-3​

Thanks that seems to confirm my suspicions.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

For a third example, a Baptist Christian group I know “being a member” is entirely about having voting rights at local church meeting for things like the budget. Yes, you must ratify thier doctrinal statements, as well as attend with x frequency, been around for y number of years, etc. And if you don’t show up after a while they kick you off the membership rolls.

I attended a church that did it this way. At first I thought it was a good way to do things. But now I know it is not.

 

[Raccoon1010]

There appears to be a thread on taking vows and taking the Lord's name in vain here that applies to this thread: "Taking the Lord's Name in Vain".....How?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

A person is basically judged by his capability as seen by the parable of the talents. Some are very capable, others are not.

Almost.
As we can see in the parable, people are given talents according to their ability (capability). And that it's the number of talents a person is given that determines their accountability. This may seem like a meaningless distinction (accountability for talents, not capability), but it's not. Just because a person seems very capable doesn't mean God has given them a larger number of talents. Accountability is measured by what you know, not by how capable you are. This misunderstanding may well be the very reason too many people go into the ministry that, honestly, really shouldn't have.