Secure Eternal Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

That's a good answer - for the noun.
Now, give me the Biblical definition for the verb . . .

Thanks for showing that you completely miss the entire point of faith.

Faith IS an action as well as a "thing". A respected scholarly Protestant source, The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, volume 2, page 25 defines "Epignosis" (Hebr.10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22) as:
1. Knowledge as recognizing the will of God that is effective in the conduct of the one who knows God
2. Christian faith

Epignosis is a full and relational knowledge of one who has experienced Christ.
It requires action - just as faith requires cooperation.

The Bible, in CONTEXT (there's that ugly word you hate) shoes us that TRUE FAITH requires:
- Love (1 Core. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6)

- Hope (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15, Heb. 11:1)

- Obedience (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21, Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23, Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22, John 14:15, 15:10, Matt. 7:21, James 1,:22, Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1)

Without those ingredients - all you have is "Belief" - and even the DEMONS have that (James 2:19) . . .

Thats a good answer?

Its the only Answer. Are you saying Paul was wrong?

Faith (noun or verb) is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen.

It is the REASON we work. or entrust ourselves to any person or any thing.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Faith PRODUCES those things.
Just like Abraham's faith was the SIGN of the righteousness he had BEFORE he was circumcised. Romans 4:11

There is no question about that. What you fail to understand is Abraham was made righteous BEFORE he had all the ingredients that you say made him righteous.

WRONG.
There you go again thinking that "Faith" is just "belief".
It ain't, according to the Bible . . .

James 2:19:24
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was COMPLETED by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Belief is just the BEGINNING - but it is NOT faith unless it is COMPLRATED by works.
Abraham "believed" God - a belief which INCLUDED offering up his son, Isaac.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's the conviction and proof that what you can't see really is true. Hebrews 11:1
It's a thing, not an action. But it will lead to action if you retain it.
In the practical Biblical sense, faith means you know the gospel is true, because God showed you it's true through the testimony of the Holy Spirit. Faith, if received and not rejected, results in believing - trusting in the truth God has shown you. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. That righteousness then caused him to obey God - he got circumcised. His circumcision (his obedience) is not what credited righteousness to him. His faith BEFORE he was circumcised did that all by itself.

"Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness" (Romans 4:3). You're looking at his believing, and his circumcision, and everything else he did in obedience to God as his faith, and so you say all those things together are what made him righteous. But Paul says he was made righteous BEFORE he obeyed God in circumcision. Faith stands all by itself as that which made Abraham righteous. Catholics, say, no, it was his faith and his works of faith that made him righteous...because faith is defined as faith and works of faith. That's not what Paul says. It's very clear in Romans 4 that Abraham's believing all by itself made him righteous. Then he did works of obedience. His work being the sign of the righteousness he had before he did any work. Specifically, the work of circumcision. The putting off of the flesh is the SIGN of one's righteousness, not the procurer of it.

Thats a good answer?
Its the only Answer. Are you saying Paul was wrong?

Faith (noun or verb) is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen.
It is the REASON we work. or entrust ourselves to any person or any thing.

Paul wasn’t wrong at ALL – and neither was James.
They BOTH understood and explained that “faith” is something that WOKES (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6, James 2:14-26).

Faith is an action – not just a “thing”. It’s not an “object” as you guys falsely believe. The Bible shows us that it is a LIVING thing that requires love and hope and obedience. ALL of these are things that we DO.

It's not the "reason" we work. The work we do that was prepared for us by God in advance is an essential element of faith. It's NOT a byproduct of it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul wasn’t wrong at ALL – and neither was James.
They BOTH understood and explained that “faith” is something that WOKES (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6, James 2:14-26).

Faith is an action – not just a “thing”. It’s not an “object” as you guys falsely believe. The Bible shows us that it is a LIVING thing that requires love and hope and obedience. ALL of these are things that we DO.

It's not the "reason" we work. The work we do that was prepared for us by God in advance is an essential element of faith. It's NOT a byproduct of it.

Paul is not wrong

Works are a BYPRODUCT of faith. Not a requirement.

Our work is produced BECAUSE we trust God to do what he wants us to do. not knowing the outcome of those works.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for..

You want to have faith in things you can see. Thais not faith my friend.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul wasn’t wrong at ALL – and neither was James.
They BOTH understood and explained that “faith” is something that WOKES (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6, James 2:14-26).

No one is saying faith does not work. Faith does work, but faith is not defined as works as you are trying to assert. Faith is a conviction. That's a noun. Having faith is the occurrence of possessing faith. We call that 'believing'. That's a verb. That faith in turn produces works of obedience: "...the obedience that comes from faith." Romans 1:5

You're not making the proper distinction between faith, and the obedience having faith produces. They are, by definition, two different things. Having faith produces the obedience of works.

​

Abraham was made righteous by having faith, not by the obedience his faith later produced. You're trying to say he was made righteous by works because you say faith is defined as obedience. That's just not true. Faith is a conviction. Works are the activities faith produces. The works faith produces do not make you righteous. The faith that produced those works is what makes you righteous.

 

[robert derrick]

Being made perfect by learning obedience is in this life, even as Jesus was in the days of His flesh:

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

That is being made perfect in one understanding of the true God Jesus Christ, that the world in this life may behold and know the Father did send Jesus to save from all sins of this flesh: how? By learning to obey Him in all things, even as He did the Father.

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

We are to be made perfect through the Spirit, by being set free from the law of sin in the mind and body, through the law of the Spirit of life ruling our mind and body.

Seeking perfection by the flesh is seeking salvation by our own works of self-righteousness in obedience to another law than that of Christ: the Galatians were guilty of the works of the flesh by obeying the law of circumcision that no longer exists with God.

Through the Spirit we circumcise the foreskins of our heats, which is to cut off the carnal mind of the old man of sins, and be renewed in our pure minds to do God's righteousness only.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

There is no being made perfect as commanded in Christ, without the works of righteousness in obedience to the law of Christ by the faith of Jesus.

There are no works of righteousness with God without first proving the works of repentance from sins through the Spirit of God.

No man goes on to being made perfect, while yet continuing in sins, or by obeying the law and commandments of men, and no man goes on to the resurrection of life, without first being made perfect in this life:

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Our love for God is to be only made perfect in this life. There is no promise that our love for God shall be made perfect in the next to come. Our love for God is now made perfect by keeping His commandments and doing the law of Christ faithfully, whereby we may have boldness in the day of judgment, being dressed in robes of white.

As He is righteous, so are we to be in this world, not waiting for the next to come. As He was tempted in all things, yet without surrendering to them in sin, so are His elect saints to be in this life.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Paul is not wrong

Works are a BYPRODUCT of faith. Not a requirement.

Our work is produced BECAUSE we trust God to do what he wants us to do. not knowing the outcome of those works.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for..

You want to have faith in things you can see. Thais not faith my friend.

Never said Pail was wrong.

However - faith is NOT just a "thing". It requires love and hope and obedience. Faith is an action as much as it is a thing.
Abraham's faith was COMPLETEWD BY his works (James 2:22). His works weren't done AFTER his faith came about.

P don't have faith IN the works I do. The works I do that were created FOR me in advance by God are PART of my faith - which includes, belief, hope, love and obedience.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No one is saying faith does not work. Faith does work, but faith is not defined as works as you are trying to assert. Faith is a conviction. That's a noun. Having faith is the occurrence of possessing faith. We call that 'believing'. That's a verb. That faith in turn produces works of obedience: "...the obedience that comes from faith." Romans 1:5

You're not making the proper distinction between faith, and the obedience having faith produces. They are, by definition, two different things. Having faith produces the obedience of works.

​

Abraham was made righteous by having faith, not by the obedience his faith later produced. You're trying to say he was made righteous by works because you say faith is defined as obedience. That's just not true. Faith is a conviction. Works are the activities faith produces. The works faith produces do not make you righteous. The faith that produced those works is what makes you righteous.

WRONG.

Abraham's faith was COMPLETEWD BY his works (James 2:22). His works weren't done AFTER his faith came about - but as part of it.

YOU are still under the fallacy that "Faith" is simply "Belief".
I have proven repeatedly with Scripture (James 2:19, 1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6) that you are dead wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Never said Pail was wrong.

However - faith is NOT just a "thing". It requires love and hope and obedience. Faith is an action as much as it is a thing.
Abraham's faith was COMPLETEWD BY his works (James 2:22). His works weren't done AFTER his faith came about.

P don't have faith IN the works I do. The works I do that were created FOR me in advance by God are PART of my faith - which includes, belief, hope, love and obedience.

Yeah in reality you are

Love and obedience are RESULTS of faith. Not requirements for faith

Hope is what our faith is based on,

As far as our eternal destination Goes. The word says our hope is in eternal life. WHich God, who can not lie, promised before time began, That same eternal life John said we can KNOW WE HAVE. And is the root of our faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WRONG.

Abraham's faith was COMPLETEWD BY his works (James 2:22). His works weren't done AFTER his faith came about - but as part of it.

YOU are still under the fallacy that "Faith" is simply "Belief".
I have proven repeatedly with Scripture (James 2:19, 1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6) that you are dead wrong.

Anyone who thinks faith is simply belief does not understand faith

Mere belief will not work. Because it has no trust. It will fail, it will fall away.

Faith is an assurance.. Where as belief is just knowledge

Many believe in Christ, very few actually are persuaded in Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOU are still under the fallacy that "Faith" is simply "Belief".

The Bible tells us what faith is. It's simply the supernatural evidence that something that you can't see is true, or real:

"1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
​

God gives this proof, this evidence of the unseen to all men:

"He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:31
​

The word 'proof' in the verse is literally the word 'pistis', which is 'faith'. God gives all men faith that the gospel really is true. But just knowing the gospel is true doesn't save anybody, or else all would be saved. He gives men faith to know the gospel is true so that they can then retain that knowledge in believing (pisteuo) and be saved. A person is justified when they believe the gospel, not just when they find out it's really true through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Abraham believed (pisteuo) God and it was credited to him as righteousness. He was justified (made righteous) when he believed (pisteuo) BEFORE he did any work. Before he was circumcised and many years BEFORE he put Isaac on the altar in obedience to God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yeah in reality you are
Love and obedience are RESULTS of faith. Not requirements for faith
Hope is what our faith is based on,
As far as our eternal destination Goes. The word says our hope is in eternal life. WHich God, who can not lie, promised before time began, That same eternal life John said we can KNOW WE HAVE. And is the root of our faith.

Anyone who thinks faith is simply belief does not understand faith

Mere belief will not work. Because it has no trust. It will fail, it will fall away.
Faith is an assurance.. Where as belief is just knowledge

Many believe in Christ, very few actually are persuaded in Christ.

You are partially correct.

Our faith IS based on hop. However – the Scriptures tells us that it is also based on LOVE (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6) and OBEDIENCE (James 2:14-26, Matt. 25:31-46). These are things we DO.

When you take love out of the equation – you are nothing more than a clanging cymbal (1 Cor. 13:1).
When you take obedience out of the equation – you are NO better off than the demons (James 2:19).

Witho0ut ALL of the ingredients – it is NOT faith.
It’s just belief . . .

And yes, we CAN know that we have salvation - IF we are right with God.

Salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation with God’s grace.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

It is NOT a blanket guarantee regardless of whether or not we cooperate.

That’s why Jesus said that we must endure to the end (Matt. 24:13) and that ONLY the one who DOES the will of the Father will be saved (Matt. 7:21).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are partially correct.

Nope. John did not lie. I am just quoting what he said, and what the author of Hebrews said

So you are claiming they are partially correct.

Our faith IS based on hop. However – the Scriptures tells us that it is also based on LOVE (1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6) and OBEDIENCE (James 2:14-26, Matt. 25:31-46). These are things we DO.

When you take love out of the equation – you are nothing more than a clanging cymbal (1 Cor. 13:1).
When you take obedience out of the equation – you are NO better off than the demons (James 2:19).

Witho0ut ALL of the ingredients – it is NOT faith.
It’s just belief . . .

And yes, we CAN know that we have salvation - IF we are right with God.

Salvation is CONDITIONAL on our cooperation with God’s grace.
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

It is NOT a blanket guarantee regardless of whether or not we cooperate.

That’s why Jesus said that we must endure to the end (Matt. 24:13) and that ONLY the one who DOES the will of the Father will be saved (Matt. 7:21).

1. Hope is not seen, If your basing your hope on obedience, you are basing it on the seen (your works) not the unseen (The hope that the work is good and will produce fruit)
2. It is based on Love, The love of God. Your love is weak, it is not something i would place my faith in, But if you wish to do that, thats on you
3. Cooperate? We can never cooperate enough. Thats why Jesus told us to become poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt) if we wanted to enter the kingdom of God.

The tax collector did this, He got on his knees unable to even look up. Because he knew how spiritually bankrupt he was.

Jesus did not tell me to endure to the end, Unless I am alive in the great tribulation, And he tells us throughout that tribulation to endure to the end (when he will return) and you will be psychically saved and enter the physical kingdom with him.

Endure to the end.. Your faith is in yourself my friend, I beg you to become bankrupt and look to God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Bible tells us what faith is. It's simply the supernatural evidence that something that you can't see is true, or real:

"1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1
​

God gives this proof, this evidence of the unseen to all men:

"He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:31
​

The word 'proof' in the verse is literally the word 'pistis', which is 'faith'. God gives all men faith that the gospel really is true. But just knowing the gospel is true doesn't save anybody, or else all would be saved. He gives men faith to know the gospel is true so that they can then retain that knowledge in believing (pisteuo) and be saved. A person is justified when they believe the gospel, not just when they find out it's really true through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Abraham believed (pisteuo) God and it was credited to him as righteousness. He was justified (made righteous) when he believed (pisteuo) BEFORE he did any work. Before he was circumcised and many years BEFORE he put Isaac on the altar in obedience to God.

"Things HOPED FOR".
This shows us that faith is NOT just a "Thing" as you have repeatedly stated - but an ACTION. that requires much more than simple "belief".

"Abraham believed" does NOT mean that he had a simple mental assent to God.
It means that he surrendered himself to God - and THAT is the essence of faith.

"Believing" is just the beginning (James 2:14-26) . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Things HOPED FOR".
This shows us that faith is NOT just a "Thing" as you have repeatedly stated - but an ACTION. that requires much more than simple "belief".

"Abraham believed" does NOT mean that he had a simple mental assent to God.
It means that he surrendered himself to God - and THAT is the essence of faith.

"Believing" is just the beginning (James 2:14-26) . . .

THINGS HOPED FOR

IN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, WHICH GOD, WHO CAN NOT LIE, PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN Titus 1: 2

Thats the hope one has for faith in God. that he gives what he promised. that our life will be eternal lith him, not eternal death.

You got James all messed up. James did not refute or contradict paul (romans 4) James spoke to make believers, not true believers.

No one is saved because they BELIEVE in Jesus

We are saved by FAITH (assurance) In jesus

The true faith PRODUCES WORKS. that is what James was saying to the make believers. Prove your faith to me and yourself. You can claim you have faith all you want. But if you do no have the byproduct of faith, it just proves you have mere belief your faith is dead.

Your work will nto save you my friend. The penalty of sin is death. Christ sufffered that penalty on the cross.

The gift of God is eternal life, in christ. Stop trying to earn the gift..

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope. John did not lie. I am just quoting what he said, and what the author of Hebrews said

So you are claiming they are partially correct.

That's just it.
Anybody can "quote" Scripture - nut NOT everybody understands what it is saying because they completely discount CONTEXT in favor of cherry-picking.

1. Hope is not seen, If your basing your hope on obedience, you are basing it on the seen (your works) not the unseen (The hope that the work is good and will produce fruit)
2. It is based on Love, The love of God. Your love is weak, it is not something i would place my faith in, But if you wish to do that, thats on you
3. Cooperate? We can never cooperate enough. Thats why Jesus told us to become poor in spirit (spiritually bankrupt) if we wanted to enter the kingdom of God.

The tax collector did this, He got on his knees unable to even look up. Because he knew how spiritually bankrupt he was.

Jesus did not tell me to endure to the end, Unless I am alive in the great tribulation, And he tells us throughout that tribulation to endure to the end (when he will return) and you will be psychically saved and enter the physical kingdom with him.

Endure to the end.. Your faith is in yourself my friend, I beg you to become bankrupt and look to God.

This is Scripturally-bankrupt.

To say that enduring in faith ONLY applies to those during the Tribulation is to ignore Scripture. One of Jesus's most-repeated messages was about enduring in Faith.

The Lesson of the Sheep and Goats (Matt. 25:31-46)

The Lesson of the Vine and the Branches (JJohn 15:1-6)

The Parable of the Fig Tree (Luke 13:6-9)

John 8:31-32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven but ONLY the one who DOES the will of my Father in Heaven."

 

[BreadOfLife]

THINGS HOPED FOR

IN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE, WHICH GOD, WHO CAN NOT LIE, PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN Titus 1: 2

Thats the hope one has for faith in God. that he gives what he promised. that our life will be eternal lith him, not eternal death.

You got James all messed up. James did not refute or contradict paul (romans 4) James spoke to make believers, not true believers.

No one is saved because they BELIEVE in Jesus

We are saved by FAITH (assurance) In jesus

The true faith PRODUCES WORKS. that is what James was saying to the make believers. Prove your faith to me and yourself. You can claim you have faith all you want. But if you do no have the byproduct of faith, it just proves you have mere belief your faith is dead.

Your work will nto save you my friend. The penalty of sin is death. Christ sufffered that penalty on the cross.

The gift of God is eternal life, in christ. Stop trying to earn the gift..

Just as I thought.
Your understanding of the Epistle of James is as warped as your understanding of the rest of Scripture.

James was ABSOLUTELY writing to born-again Christians - mot "make believers".
What part of the following makes you think that they were NOT born-again christians??

James 5:13-16
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among YOU sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a RIGHTEOUS PERSON has great power as it is working.

Finally - it's NOT about "earning" anything. God prepared works for me to do in advance (Eph. 2:10). I can DO them as an ingredient of faith (Gal. 5:6, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 25:31-46) - or I can refuse to do them as an act of rebellion.

It's about cooperating with God's grace - NOT about doing things pon my own to "earn" salvation.

 

[robert derrick]

WRONG.

Abraham's faith was COMPLETEWD BY his works (James 2:22). His works weren't done AFTER his faith came about - but as part of it.

YOU are still under the fallacy that "Faith" is simply "Belief".
I have proven repeatedly with Scripture (James 2:19, 1 Cor. 13:1-13, Gal. 5:6) that you are dead wrong.

This is where I am in complete agreement with my Roman Catholic counterpart.

You have it nailed right. Faith is the nail, which is not sure, until it is nailed.

The nail was nothing, until Heber's wife nailed it in the wicked man's temple. It was a dead nail, being alone, until it was nailed rightly and came alive to do good.

Faith is the sword, which is useless on a shelf unused.

Faith is the scalpel used to circumcise the heart and cut away the carnal mind of the old man.

The error is in trying to distinguish between faith and obedience, with faith in the heart only, and obedience in the boy only.

The faith of Jesus is obedience to God: the faith and obedience of Jesus is in the heart together.

Faith is the evidence of things not seen: Faith is the evidence, and the evidence is the work.

Obedience of the body is the evidence of the obedient heart.

Unseen faith without it's evident work plainly seen, remains unseen and alone and dead: faith alone is without obedience in the heart, and therefore is not seen in the flesh.

Faith is the light, adn obedience is the shining: no light shining, no light at all.

There is as much separation and distinction between faith and obedience as there is between the sun and the sunlight: none.

The sun that does not shine is no sun at all, and so is faith without obedience: They begin in the heart at the same time. Faith without obedience in the heart is the opposite of the faith of Jesus that obeys the Father.

The work of faith is obedience in the heart: an obedient heart.

God is seeking them that love to obey Him. He is seeking the obedient heart, not the heart with faith only, which is all faith and no love of God:

And though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Faith only in the heart distinctly separate from obedience in the heart is a black hole.

If faith and obedience to the faith is separate, then so is Christ and God, because the glory of God lightens, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

There is no salvation for faith alone being in the heart, and eternal salvation is only for them who have the faith and obedience of Jesus in the heart.

The faith of Jesus is the faith to obey God as He did: in the heart and from the heart in the flesh.

 

[robert derrick]

The error of trying to distinguish between faith and obedience is to have faith in the heart first, and then obedience of the body.

The real separation is not between faith and obedience, which is first in the heart, but between a believing obedient heart and faithful obedience in the flesh: Evident faith and obedience of the flesh follows faith and obedience in the heart.

Faith that saves never stands alone anywhere, neither in the heart nor the body. Faith that obeys in the heart is salvation of the soul.

We are not saved by obedience of the body without obedience in the heart by faith.

Separating obedience from faith is false, which leads to separating works of faith from eternal salvation of the soul.

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him: first in the heart, and then in the body.

Hope is what our faith is based on...and is false hope of a dead faith without obedience in the heart.

Hope in faith alone is man's faith, not God. It is idealism and idolatry of man. Man idolizes his faith, which God does not see nor save by.

In the world, there is difference between seed planted and root taken from the seed. Not in the kingdom of God: seed and root are at the same time.

Faith is the seed and root is obedience, and they are both in the ground at the same time.

The tree is the body, which grows from the root in the heart, even as the evidence of an obedient body comes naturally from the obedient heart.

Seed of faith without obedient root is on the wayside and counted as no faith at all, to be immediately taken away by the devil: it is as in one ear and out the other.

Faith alone in the heart saves no man, because there is no root of obedience: it is alone in that it is not faith to obey God, but faith to believe in Him only, even as the devils believe there is one God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just as I thought.
Your understanding of the Epistle of James is as warped as your understanding of the rest of Scripture.

Nope. Its your warped understanding

James is clear.

What does it PROFIT a person if the CLAIM to have faith, yet have no works, CAN THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?

The answer is no. Why? Because it is not faith, it is dead, It is mere belief.

If it was living breathing saving faith, it would produce works, Because faith produces works.

James was ABSOLUTELY writing to born-again Christians - mot "make believers".
What part of the following makes you think that they were NOT born-again christians??

James 5:13-16
Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among YOU sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a RIGHTEOUS PERSON has great power as it is working.

Finally - it's NOT about "earning" anything. God prepared works for me to do in advance (Eph. 2:10). I can DO them as an ingredient of faith (Gal. 5:6, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 25:31-46) - or I can refuse to do them as an act of rebellion.

It's about cooperating with God's grace - NOT about doing things pon my own to "earn" salvation.

lol. So James is talking to believers when he says the only CLAIMED to have faith. and then said their faith was dead.

How can someone be saved if they never had faith?

It is about earning. Your trying to earn your salvation in the flesh, instead of the spirit. Paul speaks of you in Gal 3. Are you so foolish having BEGUN in the spirit, are you now tryign to perfect (complete) it in the flesh.

Thats what you are telling me I d=need to do. I can't Because no work I ever do will cause God to forgive one sin.

God requires perfection. I failed to live up to that standard decades ago. Its to late to try to work to earn salvation. I already fell short.