Why do People Pray for the Dead?

[GaryAnderson]

If it wasn't convincing to many it would hardly be a ruse Gary. Trusting our senses over and above what the scriptures declare is a sure trap.

Yes and this is why I LOVE this subjective forum. :)

 

[Aunty Jane]

@GaryAnderson QT is absolutely correct. The dead are dead...they do not need your prayers and if you offer them, you show God that you don't believe what his word says....you believe the devil's lie that 'you don't really die'...God's word does not teach that a conscious part of us leaves our body at death, so if you continue to pray for dead people, you are telling God that you don't believe him when he says we "return to the dust" and all consciousness ceases. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) You have the scriptures.....Jesus lived by those scriptures and taught from them. You have the choice to accept them or reject them....

 

[GaryAnderson]

@GaryAnderson QT is absolutely correct. The dead are dead...they do not need your prayers and if you offer them, you show God that you don't believe what his word says....you believe the devil's lie that 'you don't really die'...God's word does not teach that a conscious part of us leaves our body at death, so if you continue to pray for dead people, you are telling God that you don't believe him when he says we "return to the dust" and all consciousness ceases. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) You have the scriptures.....Jesus lived by those scriptures and taught from them. You have the choice to accept them or reject them....

All right, thank you. :)

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Why shouldn’t people pray for the dead?

They are not praying for the dead, it's in regards as too their Soul. they the RCC are not praying too them at all.
How can one pray too them ?

 

[GaryAnderson]

They are not praying for the dead, it's in regards as too their Soul. they the RCC are not praying too them at all.
How can one pray too them ?

Umm I don’t understand your word salad there :) but in Eastern Orthodoxy we don’t pray TO the dead but FOR the dead. And we pray TO God FOR the souls of the dead.

 

[ScottA]

If Peter says that Christ “died in the flesh but was raised in the spirit”, the scriptures themselves are a testimony to that fact. Many times after his resurrection when he “appeared” to his disciples, they did not recognise him....even Mary after his resurrection did not know it was Jesus until he said her name. She thought he was the gardener.
He did not stay with his apostles after his resurrection which he had done for the previous three and a half years. He only “appeared” to them.

Understanding that it was forbidden in God’s law to communicate with spirits, (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) God’s agents always appeared in physical form. Hence when Jesus appeared to his disciples, it was always in physical form, thought he was not always in the same body.

Twice it is mentioned that he appeared with the wound marks of his execution to prove that it was indeed him......remembering that they were not yet in full knowledge of what was happening, hence before his departure, he told them to wait for the promised Holy Spirit which would reveal all.

You say you take all of scripture into account, but what you have said here proves that you haven’t.....the account says that Jesus was whipped with a flagellum by the Romans to appease the Jews who had threatened Pilate’s political career unless he agreed to their demands that Jesus be put to death. This whip has pieces of bone attached to multiple leather cords to rip away the flesh. His terrible physical condition is attested to in that he collapsed whilst carrying his execution stake to Calvery. No one mentioned his physical condition after his resurrection, which if he still carried those wounds would have been there for all to see. And it stands to reason that a resurrection by God would not include raising a damaged body. Healing the malady that afflicted or killed someone was what Jesus did. That was the work of Holy Spirit.

If Jesus appeared on other occasions without the wound marks, which would have been clearly visible, then he was doing those couple of times for effect....such as to convince a doubting Thomas.

He appeared to two of his disciples walking on the road who took him for a stranger who was unaware of what had happened. Then he appeared in a locked room, and he disappeared before their eyes after they recognised the way he broke bread at the meal. (Luke 24)

This is not something a flesh and blood human can do. So Jesus was not raised in the body he sacrificed....he was 100% mortal human, the price of redemption. So he was raised in a spirit body and was able to materialize in whatever body he wished. He himself said that he was “flesh and bones”....not “flesh and blood”. He had sacrificed that body and would not take it back. When angels took on human form, they ate and drank with those to whom they were sent. (Genesis 18) Can we really comprehend the abilities of those who dwell in the same realm as their Creator?

When ascending into heaven in full view of his disciples, a cloud obscured the fact that he had dematerialised in order to return to the spirit realm. Only spirits can inhabit the spirit realm we call heaven.

You have not reconciled all scripture, namely that Jesus clearly said He was not a spirit.

You are also wrong that I have not reconciled all the scriptures that you have provided. We have not yet had that conversation. I merely presented you with a scripture that should have shown you that your line of reasoning is in error. As for my reconciling that scripture with those you mentioned. How is it that you believe that Jesus rose from the dead, but could not do other miraculous things like walk through walls or appear here and there at will? You are thinking as men think. Of course He could!

So, the question is not that you can or cannot reconcile all the scriptures-- you can't. That is obvious because you refused to receive the scriptural information that I gave you, and are still attempting to make the same argument. Nor should there be any question of whether I can reconcile them all-- I simply believed them all, and did not rely on my own understanding. However, because I am able to answer to you regarding the truth, I in fact do understand. But it is not a contest--the truth is the truth, and I have presented it to you.

As for Jesus ascending into heaven, we could have that conversation--I welcome it. But first you will need to get past your previous error. If you are willing, please tell me.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Umm I don’t understand your word salad there :) but in Eastern Orthodoxy we don’t pray TO the dead but FOR the dead. And we pray TO God FOR the souls of the dead.

You are assuming that these souls are alive.....souls die. (Ezekiel 18:4) Souls do not depart from the body at death...no scripture says so.

There is no one to pray for....

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, the question is not that you can or cannot reconcile all the scriptures-- you can't. That is obvious because you refused to receive the scriptural information that I gave you, and are still attempting to make the same argument.

Who are you? I gave you information as well and you have ignored all of it.....you are entitled to think you know better...but I believe that we should allow Jesus to be the judge of that.....shouldn't we?

 

[GaryAnderson]

You are assuming that these souls are alive.....souls die. (Ezekiel 18:4) Souls do not depart from the body at death...no scripture says so.

There is no one to pray for....

:) lol
No scripture says that? Well, now that you’ve said it, you’ve Convinced me. 100% legit.

 

[ScottA]

Who are you? I gave you information as well and you have ignored all of it.....you are entitled to think you know better...but I believe that we should allow Jesus to be the judge of that.....shouldn't we?

That is exactly what I did...I quoted Jesus.

And even now you don't fully quote what I said, leaving out my response to the information you gave. Then you say I ignored it. It is not who I am, you do this to yourself.

 

[Aunty Jane]

And even now you don't fully quote what I said, leaving out my response to the information you gave. Then you say I ignored it. It is not who I am, you do this to yourself.

What do you think you did to me.....?

 

[ScottA]

What do you think you did to me.....?

I gave you an opportunity to reveal yourself, and you did.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Umm I don’t understand your word salad there :) but in Eastern Orthodoxy we don’t pray TO the dead but FOR the dead. And we pray TO God FOR the souls of the dead.

You are correct One prays for the souls of the dead.

But Jesus said I am not the God of the Dead.
Jesus is all about giving life in abundance, the Holy Spirit !
Now the carnal think that Jesus Christ is giving one something other, they mistake what he is truly giving them. for the pleasures of this world. but Jesus is not about this world. because he is not of this Kingdom but of his own. That is to come and some of us are of it now, as some peoples have been going on in Christ Jesus for 2000 years now.

We should not be concerned with the dead, but abiding in Jesus Christ now and for the future.

Now one can look back on the Saints asking God for help in such to strengthen ones self in understanding for your plight as such gives one strength and hope, not to mention Fortitude, Temperance and love of the Lord Jesus Christ. as they lived you also take up the challenge as well.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

That could not be further from the truth. Life after death -- in almost every culture -- was and is a very important matter. For Christians, life after death is well explained in Scripture and is a key doctrine. So you have either skimmed the Bible or simply ignored what is written.

Getting back to praying for the dead, it was a practice during the time of the Jewish Maccabees, and somehow became a part of Catholic beliefs. There is nothing in the Bible to encourage this.

Just because heathens believed a person continued to live after they died, it hardly make this belief biblical. This an incredibly weak argument because a lot of those cultures believed in a lot of things that aren't supported by the Bible.

Rev. 12:9 says the whole world has been deceived by Satan, and the context of Gen. 10-11 shows Satan has managed to achieve much of this deception through pagan religions. Paul unequivocally stated in Rom. 1 that the whole world exchanged the truth for lies. One of those lies was the belief that a person continued to live after they died, and it can be traced all the way back to Satan telling Adam and Eve that they have immortal souls that wouldn't die.

Read God's crystal clear statement to Adam when He said "you are dust, and you will return to dust". The Bible teaches in no uncertain terms that the "life" we live is nothing more than a temporary chemical existence that has to be sustained with food, water, and oxygen. Rom. 6:23 says eternal life is a gift God has to give, so the idea that everyone has an immortal soul and continues to live after death is clearly a tradition of men.

 

[Enoch111]

Just because heathens believed a person continued to live after they died, it hardly make this belief biblical.

No one is interested in what the heathen believed. It is the Bible itself that clearly shows us that there is life after death -- either in Heaven or in Hades. So it is now up to you to carefully study the New Testament regarding this Christian belief.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No one is interested in what the heathen believed. It is the Bible itself that clearly shows us that there is life after death -- either in Heaven or in Hades. So it is now up to you to carefully study the New Testament regarding this Christian belief.

The Bible does not ever contrast heaven with hell as opposite destinations. Israel never expected to go to heaven or hell at death...this was far from what was taught in the Hebrew Scriptures. They understood that “life and death” were opposites. There was no such thing as a “soul” that survived death to go somewhere else. That idea came from paganism and infiltrated later Judaism and also later apostate Christianity. It is not a Bible teaching.

Not all humans are promised heaven and all of mankind end up in hades, which is nothing more terrifying than the common grave. This is what the Bible teaches. Only by resurrection can anyone be restored to life. Jesus will call all the dead from their graves, not from some other place. (John 5:28-29)
There is no soul alive except those who have air in their lungs and blood in their veins. That is the definition of a “soul” in the Bible.

 

[quietthinker]

It is the Bible itself that clearly shows us that there is life after death -- either in Heaven or in Hades.

this is just not true!

 

[Enoch111]

this is just not true!

That is as true as the Gospel itself. Please take note of the CURRENT occupants of the New Jerusalem which is in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24):

But ye are come [spiritually in the present tense] unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and

[1] to an innumerable company of angels

[2] To the general assembly and Church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven [NT saints who have passed on]

[3] and to God the Judge of all,

[4] and to the spirits of just men made perfect, [OT saints who had passed on]

[5] And to Jesus the Mediator of the New Covenant,

[6] and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Please note items 2 and 4. All the NT and OT saints who have passed on are now in Heaven with God, Christ, all the angels, as well as the blood of Christ sprinkled on the Mercy Seat. Why? Because OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN.

 

[Enoch111]

The dead are dead..

That only applies to door nails.

 

[Truman]

The New Jerusalem...what a beautiful place...from what I can remember of it.
And He was there...yet He's here inside of me...how does He do that?