Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

[GaryAnderson]

I'm not Catholic, and so, I don't want to get into the fine points of Mariology. But I want to make 4 observations about this discussion:
(1) Why did Jesus celebrate the graven image of the serpent that Moses used for the healing of snake-bitten Jews in the wilderness?
How do you explain the healing miracles triggered by Marian springs, e. g., at Lourdes and at the House of the virgin Mary atop a mountain just outside of Ephesus?

(2) Dick was a member of my UMC congregation who visited Mary's House at Ephesus, despite the fact that he was limping badly from torn ligaments and arthritis in his knee. He was scheduled for surgery when he returned the the US. A Turkish lady urged him to bottle water from Mary's spring and pour it on his knee. Dick finally obliged just to escape nonsense about this healing spring. But despite his unbelief, he was instantly healed. He found this out for sure when he awoke from supposed knee surgery in Spokane. When the surgeon cut Dick open to do the surgery, he was shocked to find that, despite all the MRIs and X-rays to the contrary, Dick's knee was miraculously healed, tendons repaired and arthritis gone!

(3) Dick's testimony prompted me to visit Mary's House as part of a Footsteps of St. Paul tour. I must confess that I've never experienced the presence of God more dramatically anywhere in Greece or in Israel, when I went on a long tour of the Holy Land. One young woman swooned and lay prostrate the moment she entered Mary's little house. Marian devotion clearly increased the love and devotion of many Catholics to Christ.

(4) I also know a lawyer and a psychology professor who visited Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina, the site of years of Marian apparitions. Both tourists witnessed miracles in the presence of the youthful visionaries!

Since no one has answered so far, I will answer.
Basically, all of these mean “The Devil”.
Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, Portugal? The Devil !
Countless of other miracles around the world which brought people closer to Jesus through Mary? The Devil !
Yup, case closed and move on. :)

 

[theefaith]

False;
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it:



Scripture expressly says....MAKE THIS....that is a command, of WHAT EXACTLY TO MAKE.

Your church was not commanded to MAKE an ark.
Gentiles were not commanded to MAKE an ark.
Only Moses was commanded to make a bronze serpent.

Scripture express said...Ye Shall Make YOU no ...graven image..
And definitely DO NOT BOW DOWN TO IT.

Your Church has been making THEIR graven images, and bowing to them for centuries....



Why the exclamation point....? I never mentioned “worship”, and “neither” did the Scripture...
Scripture was clear....DO NOT MAKE GRAVEN IMAGES OF “YOUR” choosing, and DO NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM....



IRRELEVANT...DEFLECTIVE...OFF POINT...
Why can you not give a Straight reply ON POINT?
Why are you talking about WORSHIP?

Do not make YOU graven images, Do not bow down to them... Period.

So why does your church do what was Expressly said NOT TO DO?

the church has authority from Christ Matt 16:18-19 and 18:18

holy apostolic council condemned the iconoclast
Images are not forbidden only graven images worshiped as god

 

[theefaith]

Does that mean that the Father and the Holy Spirit play no part in our salvation?

yes but if Jesus is our salvation and Mary is his mother then she is the mother of our salvation

Mary & Eve!

Eve was of the First creation: carnal
Mary of the New creation: spiritual

Eve the cos of Sin and curse disobeyed God! Gen 3:12
Mary cos of salvation, Lk 1:30 & consented to our salvation Lk 1:38 obeyed God & found our salvation Lk 1:30

Eve mourned:
Mary rejoiced: Lk 1:46

Eve gave birth to the all sinners: mother of all the living. Gen 3:20
Mary to the savior of all men: mother of all living in Christ. Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:43

Eve brought punishment: gen 3:16
Mary salvation: Lk 1:30 & 38 Lk 2:30

Eve source of sin: gen 3:16
Mary source of grace: Lk 1:30 & 38

Eve brought death: gen 3:19
Mary life: Jn 1:16-17 & Jn 10:10

Eve only wounds & suffering: gen 3:19
Mary healing:

Eve infidelity: gen 3:6
Mary faithfulness: Lk 1:45

Eve offended the Lord: gen 3:6-7
Mary’s soul (being) doth magnify the Lord: Lk 1:46

Eve cursed: gen 3:17-19
Mary blessed: Lk 1:28

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women!
Lk 1:28

 

[theefaith]

[Eph 2:1-10 NASB95] 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Not unless Mary is God (which we already established that she is not).

why think you this

no she is not God but conceived in her mother womb without sin, immaculate conception

gen 3:15 enmity total war none of satans wicked works are found in her
All fair Song of Solomon 4:12
Lk 1:28 full of grace
Rev 12:1 clothed with the sun immaculate purity

b

 

[theefaith]

Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen 3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
Song of S. 4:2 love of God for Mary!
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

 

[theefaith]

Since no one has answered so far, I will answer.
Basically, all of these mean “The Devil”.
Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, Portugal? The Devil !
Countless of other miracles around the world which brought people closer to Jesus through Mary? The Devil !
Yup, case closed and move on. :)

9 million sun worshiping pagans in Mexico converted to faith in Christ by our lady of Guadeloupe!

 

[GaryAnderson]

9 million sun worshiping pagans in Mexico converted to faith in Christ by our lady of Guadeloupe!

Yup.
By the way, I’d like to commend you for the energy you’ve shown in these Mary topics. Thanks !

 

[theefaith]

False;
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it:



Scripture expressly says....MAKE THIS....that is a command, of WHAT EXACTLY TO MAKE.

Your church was not commanded to MAKE an ark.
Gentiles were not commanded to MAKE an ark.
Only Moses was commanded to make a bronze serpent.

Scripture express said...Ye Shall Make YOU no ...graven image..
And definitely DO NOT BOW DOWN TO IT.

Your Church has been making THEIR graven images, and bowing to them for centuries....



Why the exclamation point....? I never mentioned “worship”, and “neither” did the Scripture...
Scripture was clear....DO NOT MAKE GRAVEN IMAGES OF “YOUR” choosing, and DO NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM....



IRRELEVANT...DEFLECTIVE...OFF POINT...
Why can you not give a Straight reply ON POINT?
Why are you talking about WORSHIP?

Do not make YOU graven images, Do not bow down to them... Period.

So why does your church do what was Expressly said NOT TO DO?

care to explain the image of our lady of Guadeloupe in by whom 9 million sun worshiping pagans in Mexico converted to faith in Christ by our lady of Guadeloupe!

 

[Taken]

the church has authority from Christ Matt 16:18-19 and 18:18

holy apostolic council condemned the iconoclast
Images are not forbidden only graven images worshiped as god

It is Obvious, with the Knowledge in Scripture given you, you reject, contort to your own words and then accept your words...
and you have laid hold to that method as acceptable.
I don’t.

I did not deflect, and say worship...you did.
Scripture was VERY CLEAR, to not MAKE “YOUR OWN” GRAVEN IMAGES AND BOW TO THEM.
Your Church has MADE graven Images. MADE of “THEIR OWN” design, placed them IN a house “supposedly dedicated to God”, and teach and expect adherence that “YOU BOW TO THOSE IMAGES”...and you do.

That is YOUR choice, and so also was it a Choice of your church.
There will be a Consequence unto YOUR church, It’s hierarchy and unto YOU who follows men, rather than God.

 

[Taken]

care to explain the image of our lady of Guadeloupe in by whom 9 million sun worshiping pagans in Mexico converted to faith in Christ by our lady of Guadeloupe!

No explanation necessary.
Statues and Dead people do not lead living men to Conversion IN Christ.
So by your estimates 9 million sun worshiping pagans decided to bow down to and worship a Statue....men trading off WHAT they Worship from sun to statue is NOT how a man becomes Converted in Christ!

Hokey nonsense.

 

[theefaith]

It is Obvious, with the Knowledge in Scripture given you, you reject, contort to your own words and then accept your words...
and you have laid hold to that method as acceptable.
I don’t.

I did not deflect, and say worship...you did.
Scripture was VERY CLEAR, to not MAKE “YOUR OWN” GRAVEN IMAGES AND BOW TO THEM.
Your Church has MADE graven Images. MADE of “THEIR OWN” design, placed them IN a house “supposedly dedicated to God”, and teach and expect adherence that “YOU BOW TO THOSE IMAGES”...and you do.

That is YOUR choice, and so also was it a Choice of your church.
There will be a Consequence unto YOUR church, It’s hierarchy and unto YOU who follows men, rather than God.

what makes it graven?
Are nativity scenes included?
Many of your sects have images Protestant graveyards have statues also

 

[theefaith]

No explanation necessary.
Statues and Dead people do not lead living men to Conversion IN Christ.
So by your estimates 9 million sun worshiping pagans decided to bow down to and worship a Statue....men trading off WHAT they Worship from sun to statue is NOT how a man becomes Converted in Christ!

Hokey nonsense.

dead?

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

not worship only God may be lawfully worshiped

 

[theefaith]

No explanation necessary.
Statues and Dead people do not lead living men to Conversion IN Christ.
So by your estimates 9 million sun worshiping pagans decided to bow down to and worship a Statue....men trading off WHAT they Worship from sun to statue is NOT how a man becomes Converted in Christ!

Hokey nonsense.

to love Mary is to love salvation!

Sirach 24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
26 Come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits.
27 For my spirit is sweet above honey, and my inheritance above honey and the honeycomb.
28 My memory is unto everlasting generations.
(I know this scripture is deleted by the tradition of men in the KJV)

Song of Solomon 1:2
Smelling sweet of the best ointments. Thy name is as oil poured out: therefore young maidens have loved thee.
Oil heals and fuels the flame, and is the fruit of the olive (peace) so the name of Mary is our peace, and healing, and fire of divine love!

Proverbs 8:35
He that shall find me, shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord:

Lk 1:45 all generations shall call me blessed!

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Mary and all the saints grace, virtues, and merits are from God’s infinite goodness mercy and love and they end in the God glory!

 

[GEN2REV]

Given the excessive number of threads and responses in this forum an others regarding Mary, I have to ask...WHY?

Why are Catholics so fixated on Mary? Why does every Catholic church have a significant number of statues and shrines to Mary on the premises and only the giant crucifix with Christ hanging on the cross and maybe a handful of stained glass windows depicting Him? Why do Catholics have shrines to Mary in their front yard and NOT a cross?

In my opinion, it's the magicians 'trick' of distraction taking ones' focus off Jesus, our Savior! How many 'Hail Mary's' have Catholics droned over the years? How many Catholic prayers even MENTION Jesus?

There is close to zero prophecy in the old testament about her other than a couple of references to 'born of a virgin' that refer to Mary 100s of years before she was chosen by God to carry HIS Son. Yet there is voluminous OT prophecy of the Messiah...Jesus.

And no, Genesis 3:15 does NOT reference Mary. The woman in that verse refers to Israel in and Satan's war to destroy Israel thus nullifying Gods' Word, not MARY!

Mary is NOT God! Mary is NOT A god! Mary is simply the 'birth mother' of Jesus chosen by God, no more, no less. So why all the hub-bub about Mary?

Because they had to come up with a way to perpetuate their pre-existing practice of worshipping the female pagan idol 'Queen of Heaven', also known as Isis, Astarte, Asherah, etc.

There is a new-ish horror movie out that depicts this type of concept called The Unholy.

 

[Cassandra]

Since God alone is All knowing and Ever present, how could either Mary or the saints hear prayers? They can't, and you can't argue it @theefaith because if you do, you are putting Mary in the place of God and assigning His attributes to her. God hears prayers, not Mary.

And my Bible doesn't say "full of grace".
"28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:26-28

And as for OT queen mothers, that doesn't mean much. This queen was removed for idolatry, further it was because the worship of a female goddess complete with idol.
"Also he removed Maachah his grandmother from being queen mother, because she had made an obscene image of Asherah. And Asa cut down her obscene image and burned it by the Brook Kidron." i Kings 15:13

The way I understand about all of the idols in Rome, is that they were pagan gods and godesses statues, and when Constantine converted, all of the idols magically became saints, and Mary, because what are you gonna do with all that stuff. It will make it much easier for converts to pray to the things they have been praying to already.

 

[Cassandra]

1) Why did Jesus celebrate the graven image of the serpent that Moses used for the healing of snake-bitten Jews in the wilderness?

How did Jesus celebrate ( I don't understand your use of celebrate). Jesus is just reiterating the purpose of the serpent. And this is important. God told Moses to make that . Man is just making them on his own and venerating/ worshiping on his own. Big difference. God did not command mankind to do this.

Recall God told Moses to make the snake and put it up so all could see, which was a symbolic representative of Christ, who was made sin for us " God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21) Afterwards, it was stored , and later, Hezekiah had it destroyed "He (Hezekiah)removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan." 2 Kings 18:4.

 

[ScottA]

Given the excessive number of threads and responses in this forum an others regarding Mary, I have to ask...WHY?

Why are Catholics so fixated on Mary? Why does every Catholic church have a significant number of statues and shrines to Mary on the premises and only the giant crucifix with Christ hanging on the cross and maybe a handful of stained glass windows depicting Him? Why do Catholics have shrines to Mary in their front yard and NOT a cross?

In my opinion, it's the magicians 'trick' of distraction taking ones' focus off Jesus, our Savior! How many 'Hail Mary's' have Catholics droned over the years? How many Catholic prayers even MENTION Jesus?

There is close to zero prophecy in the old testament about her other than a couple of references to 'born of a virgin' that refer to Mary 100s of years before she was chosen by God to carry HIS Son. Yet there is voluminous OT prophecy of the Messiah...Jesus.

And no, Genesis 3:15 does NOT reference Mary. The woman in that verse refers to Israel in and Satan's war to destroy Israel thus nullifying Gods' Word, not MARY!

Mary is NOT God! Mary is NOT A god! Mary is simply the 'birth mother' of Jesus chosen by God, no more, no less. So why all the hub-bub about Mary?

Where it is true that Mary is not God, and the Catholics are not perfect...do not all good sons love their mother, even put her on a pedestal?

 

[GEN2REV]

Where it is true that Mary is not God, and the Catholics are not perfect...do not all good sons love their mother, even put her on a pedestal?

Deify her? No.

And neither does Jesus.

 

[theefaith]

Because they had to come up with a way to perpetuate their pre-existing practice of worshipping the female pagan idol 'Queen of Heaven', also known as Isis, Astarte, Asherah, etc.

There is a new-ish horror movie out that depicts this type of concept called The Unholy.

fundamentalism is nuts

Mary is our spiritual mother

Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.


Mary and all the saints grace, virtues, and merits are from God’s infinite goodness mercy and love and they end in the God glory!

All is a gift of God!
All begins in God:
All is maintained by God:
All ends in God:

all honor, glory, and thanksgiving are unto God!

Lk 1:49 He that is almighty has done great things to me!

Blessed be God, forever and ever!

 

[theefaith]

Deify her? No.

And neither does Jesus.

Mary & Eve!

Eve was of the First creation: carnal
Mary of the New creation: spiritual

Eve the cos of Sin and curse disobeyed God! Gen 3:12
Mary cos of salvation, Lk 1:30 & consented to our salvation Lk 1:38 obeyed God & found our salvation Lk 1:30

Eve mourned:
Mary rejoiced: Lk 1:46

Eve gave birth to the all sinners: mother of all the living. Gen 3:20
Mary to the savior of all men: mother of all living in Christ. Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:43

Eve brought punishment: gen 3:16
Mary salvation: Lk 1:30 & 38 Lk 2:30

Eve source of sin: gen 3:16
Mary source of grace: Lk 1:30 & 38

Eve brought death: gen 3:19
Mary life: Jn 1:16-17 & Jn 10:10

Eve only wounds & suffering: gen 3:19
Mary healing:

Eve infidelity: gen 3:6
Mary faithfulness: Lk 1:45

Eve offended the Lord: gen 3:6-7
Mary’s soul (being) doth magnify the Lord: Lk 1:46

Eve cursed: gen 3:17-19
Mary blessed: Lk 1:28

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women!
Lk 1:28



Sirach 24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
26 Come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits.
27 For my spirit is sweet above honey, and my inheritance above honey and the honeycomb.
28 My memory is unto everlasting generations.
(I know this scripture is deleted by the tradition of men in the KJV)


The Dove, & rainbow signs of peace are types of Mary mother of our salvation who obtained peace for all men!

Song of Solomon 1:2
Smelling sweet of the best ointments. Thy name is as oil poured out: therefore young maidens have loved thee.
Oil heals and fuels the flame, and is the fruit of the olive (peace) so the name of Mary is our peace, and healing, and fire of divine love!

Proverbs 8:35
He that shall find me, shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord:

And hundreds more, you will find in the excellent book by Saint Alphonse Lugosi the glories of Mary!

Lk 1:45 all generations shall call me blessed!

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Mary and all the saints grace, virtues, and merits are from God’s infinite goodness mercy and love and they end in the God glory!