There is NO proof text in scripture.

[amadeus]

@ScottA
Post #43

:)

That's good!

Yes, just because it says so, unless it is confirmed by God, these things are just so many words.

Of course those passages are confirmed by God within the rest of scripture. But if one is doubtful about any one passage, why should the same word be any more convincing. An argument can certainly be made for or against. The whole of scripture is not only disputable, but is in fact disputed. Thus, it is only the Author who can confirm the validity of scripture--and He does, but the only unequivocal means is by the Spirit.

And that is what I recommend.

So it’s not the word of God?

No one was tagged or named, so to whom is your question addressed and what is the antecedent of "it"?

#43

 

[Mungo]

Mungo, Mungo, Mungo. Until you understand the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of a born-again believer your going to struggle with this. Until you are born again your spirit is dead. Jesus said he would send a helper and he did. He helps us understand his word. Does everyone have a strong walk in the Spirit, uh no. Many do though and he guides us and convicts us when our flesh gets in the way of our understanding. Our flesh can make mistakes but the Holy Spirit does not. We pray and seek a more personal relationship with Jesus Christ, we mature as followers. We grow, our faith strengthens, our wisdom increases, our knowledge expands, our soul has a stronger bond with our new Spirit than the flesh. Some have refused the Spirit for rituals and a bond with the fallible man.

TEXBOW, TEXBOW, TEXBOW. Do you ever give any scripture to back up your opinions?

 

[ScottA]

if He stands at the door knocking, doesn't that mean He is outside?

No, but rather that we are outside. The kingdom of God is within. The world is outer darkness.

 

[ScottA]

You can never know what people are thinking until they plainly state it. I thought Mungo was going to say that you need to check what you believe you heard from God against the written word of God, in case it wasn't actually from God that you heard it.

Note that it isn't just God and Jesus who can put words and visions into our minds. Consider Joseph Smith and Mohammad, who started the Mormon and Islamic faiths. It wasn't God who was speaking to them, nor an angel from God.

1 John 4:1 (WEB):

(1) Beloved, don’t believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.​

Acts 17:11 (WEB):

(11) Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.​

Gal 1:8 (ESV):

(8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.​

I get your point.

But did I not say from the start, to confirm the Spirit with the scriptures? I did.

Meanwhile, much fruit has been revealed here in accusations. Bad fruit.

 

[post]

the helper is sent to the apostles, the leaders of the church, they teach and rule the nations

Hmm is this passage only talking about apostles?

Romans 8:9-11
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ [is] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin, but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

And where does it say apostles are supposed to become world leaders?

 

[ScottA]

So it’s not the word of God?

What are you referring to here? The original post? Please explain.

 

[TEXBOW]

TEXBOW, TEXBOW, TEXBOW. Do you ever give any scripture to back up your opinions?

All you need to do is read the New Testament.

 

[Mungo]

All you need to do is read the New Testament.

Prove it.

 

[TEXBOW]

Prove it.

Prove what? That Jesus sent the Holy Spirit as a helper? The gifts of the Holy Spirit? That our Spirit is dead without Christ?

 

[MatthewG]

Texbow, do you read the Old Testament sometimes too? I been reading exodus lately, it’s been very interesting… honestly.

 

[Mungo]

Prove what? That Jesus sent the Holy Spirit as a helper? The gifts of the Holy Spirit? That our Spirit is dead without Christ?

All the claims you made in post #44

 

[TEXBOW]

All the claims you made in post #44

Ok I'll do the work for you this time.:) I expect a Christmas Card.

Dead Spirit
Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
If not, the Spirit is dead and the body (flesh) is in charge.


John 15:26-27
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,(that would include a Pope) but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
I think you might be hanging your soul on a man's wisdom.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Do you know any "natural" men?

Jude 19
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Promote the flesh and you do not have the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[GEN2REV]

Even the original scriptures are one step away for the Source...but by your own words you as much as call the Source "nonsense" and seem to have something against getting things directly from God. Who would do that?

I know who.

Apparently it is by no coincidence that you go on to talk about demons.

Gotcha!

Absolutely juvenile response.

Nowhere near the ballpark of a 'Gotcha!'

 

[theefaith]

What are you referring to here? The original post? Please explain.

you said

That's good!

Yes, just because it says so, unless it is confirmed by God, these things are just so many words.

so I assume you deny scripture is the word of God!

 

[Cooper]

No, see, there is a difference between "thinking" or believing, and "knowing" anything of truth. Truth belongs to God. If it comes from God, it's the truth. Period.

But I do value his word in the scriptures--He sent me directly to it to fill in all the details. But the words are spirit, and must be discerned spiritually.

I can see lots of people going in many diffeent directions, firmly believing they are spirit led and wandering further astray than ever before.
.

 

[theefaith]

I can see lots of people going in many diffeent directions, firmly believing they are spirit led and wandering further astray than ever before.
.

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

 

[theefaith]

Truth and the church are from God and cannot be in error or be reformed!

immutable

 

[Mungo]

Ok I'll do the work for you this time.:) I expect a Christmas Card.

John 15:26-27
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

To understand Scripture you need to take note of to whom things are addressed.

Jesus is speaking to the apostles not to everyone. He is speaking to those who "have been with me from the beginning". That promise is directed to the leaders of his Church not everyone.

Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

That is preceded by verse 13 which tells us Paul is addressing those "who have heard the word of truth". Where did they get the word of truth from? Not directly from God but from those who preached to them. As Paul writes in Rom 10:14,15,17
"But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent? …… So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ".

Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

But note what Paul writes before he says that in vs 8-10:
To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.
It comes through the Church

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,(that would include a Pope) but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
I think you might be hanging your soul on a man's wisdom.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Do you know any "natural" men?

The key to understanding this is vs 13
"And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit."
Paul is saying HE is imparting (i.e. teaching) what HE has been taught by the Spirit. HE is interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.

 

[BarneyFife]

Lol, it was actually regarding this verse:

Luke 23:43
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

It's a valid concern. There is, after all, no punctuation in the original language, is there? :)

 

[GaryAnderson]

It's a valid argument. There is, after all, no punctuation in the original language, is there? :)

‘This is why the OP says not to focus too much on these details but try to get the essence or the point of a passage or a chapter.