Eternal Security

[GRACE ambassador]

op: ETERNAL Salvation!

Yes, TOTALLY agree, as I have Prayerfully And Carefully studied This
Sound Doctrine, in Paul's Question: "What Saith The Scripture?"
and There, Are In BIBLICAL Fact = 12 DOZEN Passages Of
Plain And Clear Evidence!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

And also ONE question to critics, about their idea of "Conditional grace,"
when God's Plain And Clear Word Teaches "GRACE Is UNconditional"
ie:

NOBODY, "ALL have sinned, And FALLEN SHORT Of the Glory of God!"
Deserves God's UNconditional Favor (GRACE)! NOBODY!! ie:

"God SENDS the (GRACE blessing of) rain on the just AND the UNjust!"
(Matthew_5:45)

Correct? Thus, God's ETERNAL Salvation IS Sound Doctrine!

Praise HIM for ETERNITY!!

 

[farouk]

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

@marks Great passage there! :)

 

[farouk]

yes you most certainly can know ! if one dont they aint

@Ezra Romans 8.38-39 and John's First Epistle - and many other passages - are hugely assuring for the believer. :)

 

[Taken]

Eternal Security
OP ^

Amen!
IN Christ, is being IN Gods Power, and Gods Power IN the person.


1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[dad]

According to this passage . . .

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Is there anyone who has been "raised with Christ", being "dead", who will NOT appear with Christ in glory?

Much love!

If we believe we will be raised from the dead. We have eternal security. Period.

 

[Ezra]

eternal security can be a sticky subject. problem is how its taught when the pulpit says its not a license to sin. then in the next breath if you fall completely away and never make a attempt to get back in.. there remains a BIG problem 1. its not bible to say that. 2. there is good chance they was never saved..
1 John 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
one just cant live like hell except to make it in..
yes our salvation is secure but to have eternal security you have to live it by abiding in Christ

 

[marks]

You didn't reply to my verses.
Why?

Instead of replying what you believe you read in scripture,
why not try tackling some verses I've posted and which I've mentioned no one should ignore?

James 5:19-20 Clearly states that YES, someone could walk away from their faith.

2 Peter 2:20-22 Clearly states that YES, someone could walk away from their faith and be worse off than before they became saved.


How do YOU understand the above?

If you would, post the verse, and show me exegetically how these teach us that those risen with Christ will not appear with Him.

Look closely at the wording and see if you notice what I notice, something that does not appear in those passages.

I'm back but still getting caught up . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

eternal security can be a sticky subject. problem is how its taught when the pulpit says its not a license to sin. then in the next breath if you fall completely away and never make a attempt to get back in.. there remains a BIG problem 1. its not bible to say that. 2. there is good chance they was never saved..
1 John 2:19 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
one just cant live like hell except to make it in..
yes our salvation is secure but to have eternal security you have to live it by abiding in Christ

This passage gives us an axiomatic rule, "if they had been of us, they would have continued with us."

This is precise, clear, unambiguous. These are the sorts of passages we should use to understand ones which are not as precise, such as,

2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV
20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Does "to have known the way of righteousness" equal "born again"? Does "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" equal, "born again"? That's what would be required for this passage to teach a "lost salvation".

Or perhaps this is saying exactly what is written, the dog returns to it's vomit because it is still a dog.

No change in nature. They went out from us, because they were not of us.

Much love!

 

[marks]

OK marks....
I did post many verses that say we CAN return to our previous state.
You never reply to any of my verses and explain away that they say we can forfeit our salvation if we want to or if we return to a life of sin.

Explain away? Is that what you are doing when I post John, "They went out from us because they were not of us. Had they been of us they would not have gone out"?

This is a clear axiomatic passage, those who leave do so because they never were included in the redeemed.

I do think this is a very damaging teaching (OSAS) because it can cause someone to live a life not desired by God and may cause that person to walk away from his salvation.

I find that both the Bible teaches this, and that I see it in my life, that knowing the completeness and certainty of our salvation, our reconciliation to God, is what releases us to fully trust Him, yield ourselves to Him, in live the lives we want.

I find in my life, and I find this taught in the Bible, that trying to control my thoughts and behavior in order to "keep in God's good graces" is a failing effort, trying to supplant what Jesus did on the cross with my own miserably poor behavior, so as to become righteous in my own eyes, but falling from the grace of God in Christ.

Do you have any idea WHEN this idea of OSAS came about?
It was not present in the early church.
Those theologians of the early church were taught by the Apostles...
OSAS did NOT exist in their teachings.

OSAS came about during the reformation...it's a calvinistic idea.

Do you think the early theologians were wrong for 1,500 years?

If you were raised with Christ . . . you shall appear with Him. I see this being taught from the first.

Much love!

 

[marks]

op: ETERNAL Salvation!

Yes, TOTALLY agree, as I have Prayerfully And Carefully studied This
Sound Doctrine, in Paul's Question: "What Saith The Scripture?"
and There, Are In BIBLICAL Fact = 12 DOZEN Passages Of
Plain And Clear Evidence!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

And also ONE question to critics, about their idea of "Conditional grace,"
when God's Plain And Clear Word Teaches "GRACE Is UNconditional"
ie:

NOBODY, "ALL have sinned, And FALLEN SHORT Of the Glory of God!"
Deserves God's UNconditional Favor (GRACE)! NOBODY!! ie:

"God SENDS the (GRACE blessing of) rain on the just AND the UNjust!"
(Matthew_5:45)

Correct? Thus, God's ETERNAL Salvation IS Sound Doctrine!

Praise HIM for ETERNITY!!

I don't know that I'd call His grace unconditional, but I'd call it exhaustive. Able to save to the uttermost. Ever lives to make intercession for us.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

If you would, post the verse, and show me exegetically how these teach us that those risen with Christ will not appear with Him.

Look closely at the wording and see if you notice what I notice, something that does not appear in those passages.

I'm back but still getting caught up . . .

Much love!

marks,
I'm not exegeting 2 verses for a person (you) that does not seem to be able to get away from ONE VERSE.
And that does not seem willing to understand any other verse.

If you need exegeting for James 5:19-20
and 2 Peter 2:20-22, I'd say you're one of those faith only persons mixed with OSAS and we'll just have to leave you to your beliefs...
HOWEVER, JESUS did not teach what you are expousing.

If you think He did,,,post the verse....

And, if you don't agree with my verses, which I use for support and made comments to them...
it is up to YOU to explain why you don't agree....
Exegesis is reserved for serious conversation and you don't seem ready for that....

 

[GodsGrace]

op: ETERNAL Salvation!

Yes, TOTALLY agree, as I have Prayerfully And Carefully studied This
Sound Doctrine, in Paul's Question: "What Saith The Scripture?"
and There, Are In BIBLICAL Fact = 12 DOZEN Passages Of
Plain And Clear Evidence!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

And also ONE question to critics, about their idea of "Conditional grace,"
when God's Plain And Clear Word Teaches "GRACE Is UNconditional"
ie:

NOBODY, "ALL have sinned, And FALLEN SHORT Of the Glory of God!"
Deserves God's UNconditional Favor (GRACE)! NOBODY!! ie:

"God SENDS the (GRACE blessing of) rain on the just AND the UNjust!"
(Matthew_5:45)

Correct? Thus, God's ETERNAL Salvation IS Sound Doctrine!

Praise HIM for ETERNITY!!

God's grace falls on everyone.
God gives to everyone enough grace for salvation.
It could be called prevenient grace.

Every Christian believes this Grace.

 

[GodsGrace]

Explain away? Is that what you are doing when I post John, "They went out from us because they were not of us. Had they been of us they would not have gone out"?

This is a clear axiomatic passage, those who leave do so because they never were included in the redeemed.

How is this a clear axiomatic passage when you don't understand what John is speaking of?

He's not speaking about people that were never included in the redeemed.
He's speaking of gnostics that were following Jesus around and decided to abandon Him.
Did you know that gnosticism was a problem in the early church?
Did you know that John was very worried about this?

I find that both the Bible teaches this, and that I see it in my life, that knowing the completeness and certainty of our salvation, our reconciliation to God, is what releases us to fully trust Him, yield ourselves to Him, in live the lives we want.

I find in my life, and I find this taught in the Bible, that trying to control my thoughts and behavior in order to "keep in God's good graces" is a failing effort, trying to supplant what Jesus did on the cross with my own miserably poor behavior, so as to become righteous in my own eyes, but falling from the grace of God in Christ.



If you were raised with Christ . . . you shall appear with Him. I see this being taught from the first.

Much love!

I agree with all you've said above.
But....how would you fall from the grace of God??

And what you've experienced is what the vast majority of Christians experience...
but this does not prove that some cannot fall away if the N.T. clearly speaks of those that fall away.

Again: What are they falling away from?

No one teaches that you fall away from our faith by misbehaving....
It happens by abandoning God - for whatever reason.

Again...if you believe you are saved.
If you do not believe...you are not saved.

No matter when that unbelief takes place...

 

[marks]

I'm not exegeting 2 verses for a person (you) that does not seem to be able to get away from ONE VERSE.
And that does not seem willing to understand any other verse.

I'm glad that you wrote, "does not seem to be able", and, "does not seem willing to understand". Much better than I get from others!

:)

Just the same, I'm camped on a verse here because it is explicit. No question over what it says.

No need to mistake that for anything other than what it is, a chosen focus on actually 2 passages which show this truth, a truth presented in various places, in various ways, and which NO passages of Scripture, if all are correctly understood, will contradict.

This passage is so very plainly stated, no one has been able to show that it's actually saying anything other that what I've claimed. If you've beed raised with Christ . . . you shall appear with Him in glory.

No one has been able to show that this verse means anything different. But many do not see that statement as being true, as written.

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm not as dense as some may suppose, and now you've got me talking about myself. I'm not here for that, to substitute talking about myself for Scriptural discussion.

Exegete, don't exegete, your choice.

JESUS did not teach what you are expousing.

Who inspired the Bible?

Much love!

 

[marks]

How is this a clear axiomatic passage when you don't understand what John is speaking of?

He's not speaking about people that were never included in the redeemed.
He's speaking of gnostics that were following Jesus around and decided to abandon Him.
Did you know that gnosticism was a problem in the early church?
Did you know that John was very worried about this?

Listen to the word.

"If they were of us, they would have remained."

Those who don't remain, were they of us? No.

Call them Gnostics, call them lazy, call them whatever you want, but John made a blanket statement, not limited to a singled sect or heresy. It applies to anyone who fits that description, "they went out from us".

Much love!

 

[marks]

But....how would you fall from the grace of God??

When you start looking to what you do to stay right with God instead of what Jesus did.

Does that mean you stop being reborn though? I don't see that.

Romans 5 speaks of the same faith that saves us is the same faith that gives us "access into the grace in which we stand", so it seems to me that we can be saved, but not standing in grace, if we are not exercising our faith.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again...if you believe you are saved.
If you do not believe...you are not saved.

No matter when that unbelief takes place...

Salvation is a condition determined by your current "beliefs"?

To my understanding, salvation is forgiveness of sins, and removal from death and darkness by virtue of sharing in Jesus' death and resurrection.

Receiving this by faith opens the door to being saved, but that salvation is not at all our belief, it's being born of God, something He does, and no where in the Bible is that undone.

Much love!

 

[Ezra]

This passage gives us an axiomatic rule, "if they had been of us, they would have continued with us."

This is precise, clear, unambiguous. These are the sorts of passages we should use to understand ones which are not as precise, such as,

2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV
20) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21) For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22) But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Does "to have known the way of righteousness" equal "born again"? Does "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" equal, "born again"? That's what would be required for this passage to teach a "lost salvation".

Or perhaps this is saying exactly what is written, the dog returns to it's vomit because it is still a dog.

No change in nature. They went out from us, because they were not of us.

Much love!

hmmm ok but whats your point?

 

[marks]

hmmm ok but whats your point?

True children of God never stop being children of God.

Being born of God is a permanent change.

Much love!

 

[Ezra]

True children of God never stop being children of God.

Being born of God is a permanent change.

Much love!

yes the key is true