Living in Sin or just roommates who love each other?

[Pearl]

The church is not a building (although it sometimes have one) it’s not an organization (in the institutional sense), it’s a congregation of God’s people.

Matthew 18:20
“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”

Ephesians 5:25-26
“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it; that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word”

We are the church! We are not organized as one entity but we sometimes congregate in small organized cells and sometimes they are even unorganized structurally.

The Vatican and other church organizations want us to believe otherwise, that’s their business model.

I believe that Christians from many different backgrounds and creeds are members of God’s church.

Don’t misunderstand me, I think it’s good that people organize in churches(buildings) to worship, pray etc.
Our definition the word of church is usually cultural and based on today’s premises.

I agree.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Read that again and then respond.

I'm good with Paul's counsel.
I don't believe in enabling people who live reckless, bad lives.
There is a time and a place to give money to careless, irresponsible people, but it's not to be the rule.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it’s a congregation of God’s people.

Yep.
And the point was I don't think the people of God as a congregation exist to enable careless, irresponsible people to continue in their vices by throwing open the coffers and giving them whatever they want. There is a time and a place for that, but it's at the spiritual discretion of the individual.

 

[GaryAnderson]

...but obviously Spirit-less.

Well now that you’ve said it, it must be true. 100% legit.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm good with Paul's counsel.
I don't believe in enabling people who live reckless, bad lives.
There is a time and a place to give money to careless, irresponsible people, but it's not to be the rule.

Why would you think widows are reckless and live bad lives?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why would you think widows are reckless and live bad lives?

There are widows who are truly in need, and those who are not—the irresponsible, reckless, and bad ones:

"5The widow who is truly in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day in her petitions and prayers. 6But she who lives for pleasure is dead even while she is still alive." 1 Timothy 5:5-6​

 

[Grailhunter]

There are widows who are truly in need, and those who are not—the irresponsible, reckless, and bad ones:

"5The widow who is truly in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day in her petitions and prayers. 6But she who lives for pleasure is dead even while she is still alive." 1 Timothy 5:5-6​

I think that is what they were defining....
Washing people's feet I think is pushing it.

 

[JohnPaul]

Two people who are in love and committed to each other, and have made a commitment to God that they intend to be forever together as a couple, are they not married in the eyes of God, do you need to sign a contract with the town or city you live in and have a Justice of the Peace perform a ceremony or even a Priest or Pastor who possibly don't truly follow the word of God make your marriage legal in the eyes of God?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Washing people's feet I think is pushing it.

Not for that time period.
You do know that was not just a church ceremony during that time, right?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Two people who are in love and committed to each other, and have made a commitment to God that they intend to be forever together as a couple, are they not married in the eyes of God, do you need to sign a contract with the town or city you live in and have a Justice of the Peace perform a ceremony or even a Priest or Pastor who possibly don't truly follow the word of God make your marriage legal in the eyes of God?

If they were really committed to each other they would marry. Our fictitious, but realistic, couple is leaving the door open in order to escape the relationship should the need arise.

None of my kids are married to their significant others. And I consider their mates my son-in-law and daughter's-in-law, respectively. And I don't wonder if they love each other. I just know it's obvious that they do not want to make a permanent commitment to the relationship. And I don't really blame them considering the terrible example of marriage we and society have left them. They aren't Christians so it doesn't really matter. They know what I think about not getting married. But they also know I accept them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The bottom line is, the fictitious couple in the OP, if they are claiming to be Christians, must get married. Not committing to each other legally is completely antithetical to the Christian faith (the Christian faith is all about our firm, lasting commitment to God, and God's to us). But if they insist on not getting married they should sleep in separate houses every night so as not to add another stain to the already tarnished image of Christianity. An image it has because that really is what it is.

 

[JohnPaul]

If they were really committed to each other they would marry. Our fictitious, but realistic, couple is leaving the door open in order to escape the relationship should the need arise.

None of my kids are married to their significant others. And I consider their mates my son-in-law and daughter's-in-law, respectively. And I don't wonder if they love each other. I just know it's obvious that they do not want to make a permanent commitment to the relationship. And I don't really blame them considering the terrible example of marriage we and society have left them. They aren't Christians so it doesn't really matter. They know what I think about not getting married. But they also know I accept them.

The way things are today the door is already open, you can leave the relationship just as easy as if you were just living together.

I said if one makes a commitment to God that they will never separate and will remain in Union till Death, if they break that commitment to God and separate, then they have broken their word to God and there will be serious retribution come their time.

 

[Pearl]

The way things are today the door is already open, you can leave the relationship just as easy as if you were just living together.

I said if one makes a commitment to God that they will never separate and will remain in Union till Death, if they break that commitment to God and separate, then they have broken their word to God and there will be serious retribution come their time.

How many couples who marry in 'church' even think about God when they are making those promises? They make the promises only because they are part of the traditional ceremony and it's expected of them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How many couples who marry in 'church' even think about God when they are making those promises? They make the promises only because they are part of the traditional ceremony and it's expected of them.

The problem is not that they aren't making a real commitment. It's they don't understand how hard it's going to be to keep it!

 

[Grailhunter]

Not for that time period.
You do know that was not just a church ceremony during that time, right?

Ya, another one of those things.....
Women, wives and daughters were required to wash feet....family and guests....back then it was feet....now its washers and dryers and vacuuming and dinner and dinner dishes. Good thing they know their place....Ahhh!
No shoes....bare feet or sandals equals dirty feet.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ya, another one of those things.....
Women, wives and daughters were required to wash feet....family and guests....back then it was feet....now its washers and dryers and vacuuming and dinner and dinner dishes. Good thing they know their place....Ahhh!
No shoes....bare feet or sandals equals dirty feet.

Sometimes you seem to know the scriptures well. Other times not so much...

"14So I advise the younger widows to marry, have children, and manage their households, denying the adversary occasion for slander. " 1 Timothy 5:14

"5For this is how the holy women of the past adorned themselves. They put their hope in God and were submissive to their husbands, 6just as Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. And you are her children if you do what is right..." 1 Peter 3:5-6
​

I thought you would be one that knows that the feminist movement is not from God, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well now that you’ve said it, it must be true. 100% legit.

Good, Lord! You read what @Grailhunter posted that they said, right?
You don't think for a moment that garbage came from God's Spirit, do you?

 

[GaryAnderson]

Good, Lord! You read what @Grailhunter posted that they said, right?
You don't think for a moment that garbage came from God's Spirit, do you?

Yes sir I read what he wrote and I agree with him.
Obviously we can’t convince each other any further because you think the church fathers are a waste of space.

 

[farouk]

The way things are today the door is already open, you can leave the relationship just as easy as if you were just living together.

I said if one makes a commitment to God that they will never separate and will remain in Union till Death, if they break that commitment to God and separate, then they have broken their word to God and there will be serious retribution come their time.

Sadly, divorce and remarriage is regarded like a roulette wheel at Las Vegas (and indeed divorces in Vegas seem to come as easily as spinning a roulette wheel....).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yes sir I read what he wrote and I agree with him.
Obviously we can’t convince each other any further because you think the church fathers are a waste of space.

I don't think Grailhunter was in agreement with what the church fathers posted about women.