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Grailhunter

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I disagree, "Fornication" is the sexual act outside the confines of lawful marriage

If a married man has sexual relations outside of his marriage, this is fornication not adultery

Adultery is to be married to another person while the lawful spouse lives

If a college age kid has sexual relations outside of lawful marriage its also fornication

1 Coronthians 7:1-2KJV
1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Incorrect. The Greek word Pornia means prostitute. Which was not a negative term in the Greco-Roman culture. The Christian version of that porneia gets a little complicated.

If you noticed there was no wedding ceremony or vows in Eden. And then you can read the rest of the Bible and find no requirement for wedding ceremonies or vows. Nor does the Bible state the correct way for a man and woman to meet and join in a union. You are inventing beliefs....welcome to the proud crowd. It was 1500 years after the biblical period that Christianity developed a requirement for weddings ceremonies and vows, and that is a fact.


From the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
illicit sexual intercourse
adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11-12
The worship of idols of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

But this all involves translational errors and Christian reflection on later traditions that were retrofitted for 16th and 17th century translations of the Bible and reference material.

When the Greek text was translated into the Latin Vulgate, the Greek word porneia was translated to fornication. This is how the English word fornication arrived in the original Geneva and King James Version of the Bible. Part of the problem was that the New Testament was an attempt to write Christian moral standards using a Pagan language…ie Greek. But the Greeks did not have the same moral standards that Christians had. So the Christians writers were taking Greek words and adjusting the definitions of them, even coming up with new Greek words. Why? In the Greco-Roman culture sex was not considered immoral. It did not matter if it was temple prostitutes or orgies. Married Roman men were free to have sex with who they wanted…female or male. In the Roman culture adultery only pertained to wives. By Christian standards it was a disgusting arrangement. So Christian writers were tasked with conveying sexual morality from a culture that was without sexual morals and their language reflected the absence of words to describe sexual immorality. Now was all this confusing to the translators of the scriptures, it is a matter of debate.

Pornea in the Greek society mostly is a reference to prostitution which was not wrong in their culture. For example pornography, is an ancient Greek word that mean writings or paintings of prostitutes and many Roman homes had murals of sex acts and or prostitute on their walls.

But in the Bible the Greek word Pornea and its variances appear several times. In all cases the Christian writers were using it as some form of sexual immorality.
Examples:
πορνείας·… porneias … Sexual immorality
πορνείᾳ … porneiai … Sexual immorality in the plural
πορνεῦσαι … To commit sexual immorality involving sexual acts
πορνείαν … Idolatry involving sexual acts
πόρνος … A person that practices sexual immorality
πόρνοι … Refering to as a group of the sexually immoral
πορνεῖαι … inflectional, more or less dirty thoughts

Appearing in these scriptures
Matthew 5:32, 5:19, Mark 7:21, John 8:4, Acts 15:20, 5:29, 21:25, Romans 1:29* 1st Corinthians 5:1, 5:9, 5:10, 6:13, 6:18, 7:2, 10:8, 2nd Corinthians 12:21, Galatians 5:19, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, 1st Thessalonians 4:3, Jude 1:7, Revelation 2:14, 2:14, 2:20, 2:21, 9:21, 14:8, 17:2, 17:4, 18:3, 18:19, 19:2

But in no case does it simply apply to two unmarried people having sex, for a very good reason. The New Testament does not have a lot to say about romantic love. But to say that Pornea, porneia is sex outside of wedlock would be inaccurate, since the Bible has no requirements for a wedding ceremonies or vows. Marriages were formed by the union and most of the time in early Christianity a lady’s father would chose who they would be married to, as was practiced in most Old Testament unions of marriages. Couples did not commit "fornication" to be married...that was how they married.

The evolution of the word Fornicate or Fornication
Fornicate comes from the Latin, the term fornix means arch or vaulted ceiling. In Ancient Rome, it was known that prostitutes would wait for their customers out of the hot sun or rain in areas that had cover…vaulted ceilings. The Latin word fornix became a euphemism for brothels and the Latin verb fornicare referred to a man visiting a brothel. Meaning a man being serviced by prostitutes.

Of course then St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate translation of the scriptures used the word fornication.

The first recorded use in English is in the 14th century in a poem called the Cursor Mundi.

The first English Bibles to use the word fornication was the Geneva Bible and the King James Version of the Bible. 16th and 17th centuries respectively.

So bottom line, marriages in the Bible were formed by the union. This is a biblical and historical fact. Even if there was a Hebrew marriage celebration, there was no biblically stated ceremony or vows....just the Bridal Chamber were the couple consummate their marriage. Modern Jews still use a symbolic bridal chamber that is more of a canopy.

The fact that it is the union that forms a marriage still exist in civil laws. In most states and countries a couple that does not have sex after the wedding ceremony can get their marriage annulled.
 

Grailhunter

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You write as if a wife in a abusive relationship has no options "Wrong" the wife has full biblical standing to legally separate, and she is to remain unmarried, and the husband isnt to divorce his wife, it's that simple

Many try to justify the sin of Adultery, with statements like (my husband was abusive), so I divorced and got remarried while my husband is living, this is (Adultery) as seen below

1 Corinthians 7:10-11KJV
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Mark 10:11-12KJV
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Romans 7:1-3KJV
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

I did say......or then to never remarry....alone for the rest of their life and their children not having a father in the home.
So again yes they could leave. So where did that put her? Did she take her children? If she had sex again she committed adultery.....So a woman that was beat and abused could leave....never to have sex again and her children not to have a father figure....Woopie! So again the Bible is pretty strict on that.
 

Truth7t7

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I’m opposed to cancer, I’m opposed to diabetes and I’m opposed to rashes. So in that sense I guess I’m also opposed to homosexuality. Just don’t think it makes sense to oppose a disease or attraction.
You perform double speak, you include the word "Guess" and cancel this with "It dosent make sense to oppose" a disease, and you really cant oppose a disease, why?

Because you support and defend homosexuality, and that's my observation and opinion, and you dont stand alone

In one sentence you state gay sex is sin, then you claim those who perform these acts (Homosexuals) have a disease, that you dont oppose

Gods words below teach homosexuality is unnatural sin, that's worthy of death

Romans 1:26-32KJV
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly
, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
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Truth7t7

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I did say......or then to never remarry....alone for the rest of their life and their children not having a father in the home.
So again yes they could leave. So where did that put her? Did she take her children? If she had sex again she committed adultery.....So a woman that was beat and abused could leave....never to have sex again and her children not to have a father figure....Woopie! So again the Bible is pretty strict on that.
A woman that is separated from her husband is to remain unmarried, to have sexual relations outside of this marriage is fornication, that would give the husband a biblical right to put her away (Divorce)

The emotional claim of the kids having no father has nothing to do with the biblical facts presented

Many try to justify the sin of Adultery, with statements like (my husband was abusive), so I divorced and got remarried while my husband is living, this is (Adultery) as seen below

1 Corinthians 7:10-11KJV
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Mark 10:11-12KJV
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Romans 7:1-3KJV
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
 
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teamventure

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I happen to agree with the Democrats about the Rittenhouse verdict because I believe he is guilty, but this is the land of the free and I get to have my own opinion, just like you.

I also do not mix spiritual warfare with politics. Again, it's your opinion that politics here in the USA is spiritual warfare. You are free to believe that, such as I am free to disagree with you. It doesn't mean that I am on the side of the devil. I just have a different viewpoint than you. I will continue to allow you to have yours and I would expect the same respect back without name calling.

You speak as though you are blind to spiritual warfare even existing.
 
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Truth7t7

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Guilty of what?
Guilty because CNN and MSNBC said so, liberals following the leftust agenda in lies and deceit

Kyle Rittenhouse Wrongfully charged and (Not Guilty) on all counts in a unanimous verdict

One thing is a fact, Kyle Rittenhouse is going to be one rich kid after it's said and done

The Catholic Kid Nick Sandman in his defamation lawsuit against CNN, the undisclosed settlement was estimated at $40-80 million$, and his defamation is a mole hill compared to Kyle Rittenhouse, President Biden, Mayor Bill De Blasio, CNN, MSNBC, on and on $$$$

State of Wisconsin, false imprisonment $$$$
 
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teamventure

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Guilty because CNN and MSNBC said so, liberals following the leftust agenda in lies and deceit

Wrongfully charged and (Not Guilty) on all counts in a unanimous verdict

One thing is a fact, Kyle Rittenhouse is going to he one rich kid after it's said and done

The Catholic Kid Nick Sandman in his defamation lawsuit against CNN, the undisclosed settlement was estimated at $40-80 million$, and his defamation is a mole hill compared to Kyle Rittenhouse, President Biden, Mayor Bill De Blasio, CNN, MSNBC, on and on $$$$

State of Wisconsin, false imprisonment $$$$

Good to hear Kyle can get some dough for his trouble.
 
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DuckieLady

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No problem, Christian's are to expose evil, and not bless and condone evil deeds such as Abortion and Same Sex Marriage that many support and condone and claim to be part of Gods Church
I agree that we shouldn't. I spent time in prayer and asking God for guidance, because I always need to learn too, and always be ready to answer.

So I was led to Romans 2:1-16.

The whole chapter is important, but I'll give you the warning the scripture provides and you can decide for yourself if you want to read it.

"3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed."

So, YES, expose evil deeds, but forgive, show love also, and pray for their salvation.
 

TLHKAJ

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Many try to justify the sin of Adultery, with statements like (my husband was abusive), so I divorced and got remarried while my husband is living, this is (Adultery) as seen below
What if a man departs from his wife over and over throughout their marriage to the point that she had to beg and push her way back into his life? What if that same man was not only abusive, but participates in cult activity and forces his wife into situations where she is used sexually by other men?
 

Truth7t7

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I agree that we shouldn't. I spent time in prayer and asking God for guidance, because I always need to learn too, and always be ready to answer.

So I was led to Romans 2:1-16.

The whole chapter is important, but I'll give you the warning the scripture provides and you can decide for yourself if you want to read it.

"3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed."

So, YES, expose evil deeds, but forgive, show love also, and pray for their salvation.
Fact is, I dont participate in or condone Abortion or Homosexuality, the scripture dosent apply

You move in a suggestion that we all are sinners so just remain silent and love those that kill the unborn and commit homosexual acts "Wrong"

It's not about holding hands with the evils mentioned above in silence, it's that simple

The scripture would apply to a person sitting as a juror in a murder trial, that one week prior had an abortion murdering a child, being guilty of passing judgement, when she is guilty of the same
 

Grailhunter

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A woman that is separated from her husband is to remain unmarried, to have sexual relations outside of this marriage is fornication, that would give the husband a biblical right to put her away (Divorce)

The emotional claim of the kids having no father has nothing to do with the biblical facts presented

Many try to justify the sin of Adultery, with statements like (my husband was abusive), so I divorced and got remarried while my husband is living, this is (Adultery) as seen below

So you are not reading the posts.
I fully acknowledged that the Bible gave no leeway or concern for what happens to the wife or the children.
I also acknowledged that I am not a fundamentalist. And I do not try to reinterpret those scriptures or deny them. I am saying out right that I disagree with them and like slavery and other things, along with those things pertaining to women, we have learnt many things after the first 65 years of Christianity.

My religious beliefs go all the way.....not just the first 65 years.
 

Truth7t7

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What if a man departs from his wife over and over throughout their marriage to the point that she had to beg and push her way back into his life? What if that same man was not only abusive, but participates in cult activity and forces his wife into situations where she is used sexually by other men?
Legal Separation, get away from the abuse and stay unmarried, it's that simple
 

Truth7t7

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So you are not reading the posts.
I fully acknowledged that the Bible gave no leeway or concern for what happens to the wife or the children.
I also acknowledged that I am not a fundamentalist. And I do not try to reinterpret those scriptures or deny them. I am saying out right that I disagree with them and like slavery and other things, along with those things pertaining to women, we have learnt many things after the first 65 years of Christianity.

My religious beliefs go all the way.....not just the first 65 years.
We disagree, the scripture below is eternal and inspired by God, it's not a matter of what you believe or feel, but Gods words of truth

You can disagree all you want, dosent diminish the fact that Gods words below are true, and will Judge man on the last day John 12:48

1 Corinthians 7:10-11KJV
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Mark 10:11-12KJV
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Romans 7:1-3KJV
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
 

Grailhunter

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We disagree, the scripture below is eternal and inspired by God, it's not a matter of what you believe or feel, but Gods words of truth

You can disagree all you want, dosent diminish the fact that Gods words are true, and will Judge man on the last day John 12:48

1 Corinthians 7:10-11KJV
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

Mark 10:11-12KJV
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Romans 7:1-3KJV
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

I am not disputing that God's words are true.
And fundamentalists...bible only..... is a very valid religion inclination.
Now granted fundamentalists have a few things running around in their heads that are not in the Bible, they have been convinced of some things that are not there. And there have been doctrines of men long after the Bible that have convinced them of things that are false. And they are not so knowledgeable of the scriptures as they are knowledgeable of the mistranslations of the scriptures.

The Bible itself proves that updates to God's Words are valid. Christ corrected the Mosaic Law on two occasions. Talking to the Jews, He corrected the Mosaic Law on divorce and tooth for a tooth. And told the Apostles that there were many things that He had to tell them that they would not understand then....bear them now....

God did not retire at the end of the biblical era....nor did the Word of God stop at the end of the biblical era. 2000 years of Christianity and a very active God.

So if you choose to limit your understanding of Christianity to the first 65 years....I consider it a valid choice.
But because the scriptures show no concern for the women that had or have to leave abusive marriages....I see a contradiction with the Spirit of Christ and Christianity. The same I saw with not rejecting slavery in the biblical era. We have learned so many things since then.
 

Truth7t7

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I am not disputing that God's words are true.
And fundamentalists...bible only..... is a very valid religion inclination.
Now granted fundamentalists have a few things running around in their heads that are not in the Bible, they have been convinced of some things that are not there. And there have been doctrines of men long after the Bible that have convinced them of things that are false. And they are not so knowledgeable of the scriptures as they are knowledgeable of the mistranslations of the scriptures.

The Bible itself proves that updates to God's Words are valid. Christ corrected the Mosaic Law on two occasions. Talking to the Jews, He corrected the Mosaic Law on divorce and tooth for a tooth. And told the Apostles that there were many things that He had to tell them that they would not understand then....bear them now....

God did not retire at the end of the biblical era....nor did the Word of God stop at the end of the biblical era. 2000 years of Christianity and a very active God.

So if you choose to limit your understanding of Christianity to the first 65 years....I consider it a valid choice.
But because the scriptures show no concern for the women that had or have to leave abusive marriages....I see a contradiction with the Spirit of Christ and Christianity. The same I saw with not rejecting slavery in the biblical era. We have learned so many things since then.
I'm not a fundamentalist, and I disagree that the bible is evolving in change as you suggest

The bible speaks clearly about a woman and her position to leave a relationship, and instruction to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband

Feel free to believe as you choose, you have free will and God has the last word
 

Grailhunter

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I'm not a fundamentalist, and I disagree that the bible is evolving in change as you suggest

Never said that the Bible is evolving. LOL But Christianity is a change! Within the Bible...I mean WOW!
And Christ had a message of change for the Jews.....on divorce and tooth for tooth.
As far as God was gagged after the Bible....have fun with that.

The bible speaks clearly about a woman and her position to leave a relationship, and instruction to remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband
The Bible definitely does that!

Feel free to believe as you choose, you have free will and God has the last word
Yes that is true....but I do not believe that God's last word and testament was 2000 years ago.
 

McFearless

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You perform double speak, you include the word "Guess" and cancel this with "It dosent make sense to oppose" a disease, and you really cant oppose a disease, why?

Because you support and defend homosexuality, and that's my observation and opinion, and you dont stand alone

In one sentence you state gay sex is sin, then you claim those who perform these acts (Homosexuals) have a disease, that you dont oppose

Gods words below teach homosexuality is unnatural sin, that's worthy of death

Romans 1:26-32KJV
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly
, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I know that some people have a hard time with theology and faith, that’s why I’m trying to be super precise with you - that’s important.

To oppose a disease doesn’t make much sense, since being sick isn’t an action in it self, especially when we are talking sin.
I said that I oppose homosexuality the same way I do cancer, that also means that there is no reason to protest it with signs neither cancer or homosexuality.

We just found out that the definition of homosexuality is: “the quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex.”

I’m not sure that I’ve found any place in the Bible where it says that gay attraction is a sin. That’s an important distinction.
If a person is a homosexual (sexually attracted to one’s own sex) is living in celibacy, it’s not a sin and I am not opposed to him or his actions. I do however believe that it’s a terrible burden to face the temptation, but I’m not against homosexuals. I’m opposed to gay sex not homosexuals, I’m not even opposed to people who practice gay sex.

I hate the sin and love the sinner - what’s the purpose if you don’t have mad love for homosexuals?

Have you completely lost the plot?
- did you really think we as Christians are supposed to condemn homosexuals or make life harder on them? We are supposed to spread the good news, that Jesus died so transgressors like us can be saved. When you pray, you thank God you’re not like the homosexual guy standing next to you. With that form of self-righteousness, you’ll never see God’s kingdom.

You don’t have any love in your heart, it’s clear from your messages - theology won’t help you. You won’t enter God’s kingdom if you don’t start loving the sinners too.
You are just a hypocrite sinner who is trying to point towards the homosexuals, so people won’t notice your filth.
We see your filth, we see your lack of love - don’t fool yourself into believing that you are righteous in any way.
If God wants someone to confront people who have gay sex, he will never choose someone without love in his heart.

Turn away from your wicket and hateful ways!
 
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